Advice - Lunar Imaging mount purchase

[WestCoastCannuck]

Hey all.  Been a while since I have shared any images.  This is my first "advice" post.   I have been happily doing full disc shooting with my regular camera gear - seriously love it.  I have pushed the limits of what I can do and am ready for more serious gear. 

I have on order a ZWO ASI183MM camera.    I don't own a scope yet - I plan on imaging with my current lenses still for now.  (adapters sourced and one ordered already)

Now...  some context.   My interest at present, and likely always, is Lunar imaging.  Maybe some planetary one day if I have the aperture.  Would be nice to LOOK at some DSO at some point, but I don't foresee wanting to image - I just don't have the time for one thing.

I NEED a fast easy set-up.  More than hlaf of my sessions are very time constrained - I have a busy family and work life and sometimes I need to be done in less than an hour - I currently aim for 30 minutes when skipping out from work or doing an after work session on the way home at midnight.  (Gun and Run)  I want to have either both my lens set-ups (300/2.8 and 400/4.5) or one lens setup and a scope on the mount at same time.

After taking up TONS of much more knowledgeable friends' time recently I have come down to these two options  (I will not rule out others, but I will admit to being pretty overwhelmed with the whole thing at this point.)

I live in Canada so prices are CDN.

 

Option one (more mount than I need?)     iOptron AZ Mount Pro GoTo Alt-Az Mount with Tripod   ($2028 CDN all in shipped from B and H)

 

or Option 2   Celestron NEXSTAR EVOLUTION 6   ($1880 CDN all in from a Canadian source)   Cheaper....  and with this I get a 6 inch scope.

 

I will add to this, that I can and plan to borrow scopes from my local RASC where I am a member.   They have several apparently.

 

Thoughts???

 

Much Thanks in advance

 

Mike

Oh...  here is a recent fave with my old kit.  (dslr now sold)

Sony A77ii + Minolta 400/4.5 + 3X TC + 1.4X TC.   Lots of single shots, lots of stacking, lots of processing.  lol  Two part mosaic.

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by WestCoastCannuck
added info on shot

[vlaiv]

Very nice image!

I have another contender to throw in the mix?

How about AZEQ5 by Skywatcher?

It should be in similar price category as two mentioned above, but has certain advantage over both of those. It can operate in both EQ and ALT-AZ mode.

Alt-Az mode is sufficient for most planetary imaging demands, but there is actually one thing that EQ does better, and it looks like it might be beneficial to your work from what you mentioned you are interested in.

As you know, Alt-Az suffers from field rotation, but on time scales of single frame for planetary or even full imaging run it is simply not of a concern. It can however be of a concern if you plan to do for example full Moon disk image at high resolution. This would involve multiple panel mosaic approach - you can have as many as 25-30 panels for your mosaic in some cases (or even more, depending on sensor size and focal length) and if we budget about 5 minutes for each panel (both imaging run and positioning, some focus tweaking if there is focus drift due to temperature change) that would mean total session time of up to two hours.

Sometimes you will have even longer session for special events - like eclipses, or maybe trying to do animation of a planet or whatever.

In such cases it is better to have EQ mount because there will be much less field rotation if any (depends on how good your polar alignment is). With mosaics it simplifies creation of it and minimizes chances of "holes" in mosaic because each panel will be oriented the same. With AZ mode you can have significant rotation between first and last panel if enough time passes, and also depending on target position in the sky.

Then there is EQ mode if you ever decide that you have enough time and want to try some other types of imaging, so it's kind of "future proof" in that regard (although AZEQ5 is beginner type mount, it will suffice for casual DSO imaging / wide fields and in general except for high resolution / demanding work).

[johninderby]

The AZ-EQ5 would be ideal for lunar / planetary imaging and as mentioned in Alt-Az field rotation isn’t a problem for lunar / planetary.

Simple smartphone image using the AZ-EQ5.  Now have a proper camera now so looking forward to better images.

[WestCoastCannuck]

Thanks so much for input thus far!!  😎

Budget pretty stretched....  but I might be able to manage the AZEQ5 if I am convinced I need it.  Might have to sell another kidney..  errr LENS.  haha

It is true, I may very well on occasion want to try for a hi rez mosaic and I totally get the issue of field rotation when taking so many panels.....  but you mentioned the size of the sensor and I had thought about that at least a bit in my choice - the sensor I have ordered is a 1 inch so I would hope I could still do big ones with either of my first two choices?  I doubt I will ever have bigger than an 8 inch SCT.   Possibly a 9.25.......   but I doubt it.   It is quite likely I will be happy with a 6 - though I will borrow bigger and play a bit.   As I understand it I could do a moon in four panels with the 6inch F/10 SCT at prime and my 20mp 1inch sensor.

 

Thanks so much again!

 

Mike

[WestCoastCannuck]

And a question I really hope to have answered is this...  Is the IOptron as fast and easy to set-up as the Evolution for lunar imaging?  (seems like it?)  Is the now 3rd option, the AZ-EQ5 as easy?  Minutes matter to me - if I find it takes too long and I am doing LESS imaging sessions because of it, then having a better mount is kind of pointless.

At moment, still reluctantly leaning towards IOptron - a bit more than I hoped to spend but possibly best compromise IF it is as fast to set-up as Evolution.

 

[johninderby]

Get the Celestron Starsense (Skywatcher version) and the GPS unit for the AZ-EQ5 and it will set itself up in minutes.

Edited July 19, 2019 by johninderby

[vlaiv]

8 hours ago, WestCoastCannuck said:

Thanks so much for input thus far!!  😎

Budget pretty stretched....  but I might be able to manage the AZEQ5 if I am convinced I need it.  Might have to sell another kidney..  errr LENS.  haha

It is true, I may very well on occasion want to try for a hi rez mosaic and I totally get the issue of field rotation when taking so many panels.....  but you mentioned the size of the sensor and I had thought about that at least a bit in my choice - the sensor I have ordered is a 1 inch so I would hope I could still do big ones with either of my first two choices?  I doubt I will ever have bigger than an 8 inch SCT.   Possibly a 9.25.......   but I doubt it.   It is quite likely I will be happy with a 6 - though I will borrow bigger and play a bit.   As I understand it I could do a moon in four panels with the 6inch F/10 SCT at prime and my 20mp 1inch sensor.

 

Thanks so much again!

 

Mike

Although you have very large high def sensor (in planetary terms), do be careful what scope are you using it on.

On some scopes you might be limited to smaller ROI in center because of aberrations of the scope. SCT for example will have coma away from the center, and that will impact sharpness of image. In order to utilize such a "large" sensor for high res work, you need scope that will provide 1 inch of corrected field without much aberrations.

For example, this is spot diagram of C8

Moon is a half a degree, so you can expect top row level of coma at the edges of the moon (quarter of a degree away from center).

If you expect very good sharpness with C6 or C8 and that sensor, you will need to work with a bit more mosaic panels than simple sensor angular coverage for given focal length suggests. You can still do full sensor shots and then decide where to crop by visually inspecting level of blur, but that way you run a risk of not properly gauging panel spacing. Another option is to simply use ROI in center and have smaller angular coverage in single panel (that has bonus of faster download time / higher fps achieved).

For high res mosaic, I think much better option would be MCT type of scope, or possibly classical high F/ratio cassegrain if you can get hold of one from your local club.

If you are planing a dedicated lunar scope, might want to have a look at this model:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p10748_TS-Optics-6--f-12-Cassegrain-telescope-154-1848-mm-OTA.html

There are 8" and 10" versions, but are rather expensive. Also, importing to Canada could pile up expenses, but this sort of scope is often branded under different brands (like RC model being sold by GSO, TS, Altair Astro and even iOptron judging by B&H offer) so other vendors might include this model at some point in their lineup as well. That might be a good option.

On the matter of setup time for any of those mounts, I'm afraid I can't be much of a help - have not used any of them.

[WestCoastCannuck]

9 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Although you have very large high def sensor (in planetary terms), do be careful what scope are you using it on.

On some scopes you might be limited to smaller ROI in center because of aberrations of the scope. SCT for example will have coma away from the center, and that will impact sharpness of image. In order to utilize such a "large" sensor for high res work, you need scope that will provide 1 inch of corrected field without much aberrations.

For example, this is spot diagram of C8

Moon is a half a degree, so you can expect top row level of coma at the edges of the moon (quarter of a degree away from center).

If you expect very good sharpness with C6 or C8 and that sensor, you will need to work with a bit more mosaic panels than simple sensor angular coverage for given focal length suggests. You can still do full sensor shots and then decide where to crop by visually inspecting level of blur, but that way you run a risk of not properly gauging panel spacing. Another option is to simply use ROI in center and have smaller angular coverage in single panel (that has bonus of faster download time / higher fps achieved).

For high res mosaic, I think much better option would be MCT type of scope, or possibly classical high F/ratio cassegrain if you can get hold of one from your local club.

If you are planing a dedicated lunar scope, might want to have a look at this model:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p10748_TS-Optics-6--f-12-Cassegrain-telescope-154-1848-mm-OTA.html

There are 8" and 10" versions, but are rather expensive. Also, importing to Canada could pile up expenses, but this sort of scope is often branded under different brands (like RC model being sold by GSO, TS, Altair Astro and even iOptron judging by B&H offer) so other vendors might include this model at some point in their lineup as well. That might be a good option.

On the matter of setup time for any of those mounts, I'm afraid I can't be much of a help - have not used any of them.

Wow!!  Thank you so much for all the information!  I will SO look at these scopes carefully when getting my first of my own - and will see what my RASC has that I can borrow.  Yes, scope I end up getting will be mostly used for lunar imaging ....  and viewing with my kids hopefully.

I am pretty excited to get out there!

Now just have to order the last bits...

Very best regards

 

Mike

 

12 hours ago, johninderby said:

Get the Celestron Starsense (Skywatcher version) and the GPS unit for the AZ-EQ5 and it will set itself up in minutes.

Thanks!  That does help....  I am already over budget, and would also need a battery solution in addition to the items you listed.  Nope....   all in, I am now pretty much decided on the iOptron.

 

Thanks so much everyone!!

 

Very best regards

 

 

Mike

[Alan White]

Lets us all know how your final choice goes.
Good luck with this upgrade.

[WestCoastCannuck]

Well...  an update.        I bought the iOptron AZ Mount Pro, with the 2 inch tripod.  So far, happy with purchase.....  though skies have NOT cooperated.  And being a lunar addict, the angles and times to shoot just have not worked out when it was more or less clear.   Having pretty much blown the budget on the mount and the ZWO ASI 183MM camera I still managed to scrape some pennies for two great used deals.  A 6 inch/F5 Newt, and just yesterday I took delivery of an older C8  (Celestar 1997ish).   Just have a few odds and ends on my wish list now, but they can wait.  I am pretty much set for Sept  20-23 when moons will be nice high partials and I am more or less off work!   (please co-operate Mother Nature)   

I did manage what might have been a decent night (although it did NOT seems so while shooting)  with my 300/2.8 lens (plus Kenko 3X TC) .....  but I blew all the highlights - a learning curve.  I adjusted exposure BEFORE getting focused and did not notice that they blew up as I was zoomed in on the terminator and was not watching the histogram.   Would have been a lovely full disc stack.   

Here is what I saved (cropped)

I can hardly wait to look and see and image on a good night with the scopes!

 

This is a stack of about 160 best of 1600 files from ZWO ASI183MM.   With iOptron mount.   AS!3 and IMPPG.

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by WestCoastCannuck
added info on shot