Got 102 mm mak, worth getting 130 mm newt? or 127 mm mak?

[pellgarlic2]

Hi all 😃

I'm hoping I can get a bit of input of people's opinions about the potential viewing difference between my current scope - a SkyWatcher SkyMax 102T (Maksutov Cassegrain), and two potential new additions - a SkyWatcher Explorer 130PS and a SkyWatcher 127T.

I've been using my SkyMax 102T on a SkyWatcher AZ3 Alt-Az mount for about 5 years, but recently one of the clamps on the tripod leg broke.

As my birthday is coming up, I have the opportunity to treat myself, so I thought I'd like a nice new mount/tripod, and have been looking at Go-To mounts. My budget is £300-400.
My first "stop" was the SkyWatcher AZ GTi WiFi Alt-Az for £265:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/all-mounts-motors/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi-alt-az-mount-tripod.html

Then I spotted that there's a bundle including a Sky-Watcher Explorer 130PS for £349, and I wondered if there would be any significant difference in viewing between that scope and my 102T?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-gti-wifi/sky-watcher-explorer-130ps-az-gti.html

I favour planetary and lunar viewing, hence my original choice of the 102T, but am tempted by potentially being able to add DSO viewing to the capabilities of my kit.
I know that in general, Newtonians are better for DSO viewing and it would be nice to be able to add that to the repertoire, and this bundle seems a convenient and not too expensive way to do it.
But the Explorer is still a small-ish scope, even if the aperture is slightly bigger than the 102T, so if there wouldn't be a significant difference between the two scopes, I could better spend the money on some new eyepieces or something.

Or... I could forgo the fancy Wi-Fi mount, and upgrade to a SkyMax 127T, although I would need to get a new tripod and mount too... 🤑
There is a "SynScan" bundle with the 127T (no WiFi, unlike the AZ GTi. not sure how much I care about that TBH, as long as it can "Go-To" and track objects) for £388:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-127-synscan-az-goto.html

I have two boys, 6 and 5 years old, who I like to show things through the scope when it's convenient, so the Go-To and tracking ability would be very handy for that purpose, so that's a factor in my decision too.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated

Cheers, Niall.

[pellgarlic2]

Oooooooooorrrrrrrrrrr............

I could get this for £422, which is pushing my budget a bit, but would be much better for DSO work -

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-250px-dobsonian.html

🤔 

thought i was closing in on a decision, now i'm back to square one >_<

[Mr niall]

If it were me I probably wouldn't go down that route - I haven't had a 102 but I have had the skymax 90 and skymax 127 and wouldn't say that there  was a massive difference between them, certainly not enough to justify having both. If it were me I'd jump straight to a 150mm scope like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/sky-watcher-star-discovery-150i.html

Or just get the AZGTI on its own

The 130 is much better at widefield viewing - something Maks  struggle with, but planetary and lunar performance is what makes the Mak stand out from the crowd; if that's your focus I'd either stick with your Mak and invest in the mount or make the jump to a much bigger aperture as above.

Just my thoughts.

edit - I use a dob; you may actually find the 200p more to your liking as it has a longer focal length (and is cheaper). Slewing around is dead easy but it doesn't have Goto like you wanted. Would be great on planets. Smaller people may need help getting to the eyepiece though.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Mr niall

[Ricochet]

The dob is a much larger scope. It would probably be worth seeing one in the flesh before buying. It will outperform the other options on all targets but will be difficult for your kids to use. 

[pellgarlic2]

1 hour ago, Mr niall said:

... I have had the skymax 90 and skymax 127 and wouldn't say that there  was a massive difference between them, certainly not enough to justify having both....

Thanks, that's the kind of input I was looking for 😃 I think if I'm going to get another OTA (as opposed to just replacing my Mak's mount), it'll have to be significantly different to be worth it.

And noted from both replies about the Dob being difficult for kids/small people to use  
I would keep the Mak, so that could be designated the "let the kids see something" scope, and I could make the Dob "my" scope... 

Also noted about the size of the Dob - tbh, I originally got the 102T because at the time I live in a flat, and I wanted something that could fit in a small cupboard, and go in the back-seat of the car, so it was perfect.
Mulling things over today, I realised I was still in that mindset, but I actually live in a house with a garage now, which dark enough skies to do a spot of viewing in the back garden, so a bigger scope isn't as big a deal.

My next quandary is going to be whether I'm better going for the 250 mm on a Dob mount, or if it would be worth dropping to 200 mm to get a decent EQ mount, for just a wee bit more - £448:
https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200p-eq5.html
(or I might have a hunt around to see if there are any other good deals on similar-sized Newtonians with EQ mounts...)

So since posting this morning, I appear to have swung from "I want to get a new mount for my Mak, and might get one with a Newt thrown in", to "I want to get a light bucket"  

[John]

Equatorial mounted newtonians can make for awkward observing positions and are not intuative for younger observers (or sometimes for older ones !). Unless you are going to be doing imaging the 200P dobsonian is really straightforward to setup up and use. I find that younger observers get along fine with my 12 inch dobsonian at outreach events. The smaller ones do need a couple of steps to reach the eyepiece when we are looking towards the zenith though.

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

It depends on what kind of observing you want to do.  At the ~£400 price point you are still having to make severe compromises between cost and the size & quality of the scope and mount. 

If you get a Dob, be very clear that you are limiting yourself to a "Dob" style of observing.  My own observing is based around GoTo - to give examples I recently imaged Jupiter (which requires a good driven mount and the CPC800 did very nicely. ) This would be extremely difficult to do with an unpowered Dob.  Then I looked at some double stars, again using the GoTo. I could not see any of them with the naked eye - I could not even see the constellations they were in through the moonlit murk, so I can't imagine how I could have observed them with a Dob. 

Another couple of things I do sometimes is look for planets in daytime -this requires GoTo unless you are very clever. Once a year I go to a dark skies site to look at galaxies. To see as many as possible in the limited time, I use GoTo.

If you just want to look at planets and other bright easy to find stuff you could use a Dob.

For looking at deep sky objects (visual) you mainly want aperture  i.e 8" or more.  The field of view is of secondary importance  as there are tens of thousands of fainter deep-sky objects that will fit into the narrow field of view of a Mak or SCT and a small number of bright well-known galaxies and clusters that won't.  Sometimes the photo image won't fit in the field but the core you can actually see visually will.  Yes a Newtonian might be more suitable and they are cheap so consider getting a small one as an accessory to an established setup.  At the moment I am trying to sell an 8" Newtonian OTA and it seems I can't move it on unless I practically give it away.

A step up from 102 mm to 127 mm Mak ought to be a significant change if all the parts including eyepieces are good. Beware the eyepieces bundled with the kit - some are very poor.

The 127 Mak Synscan is much the same as one of my earlier and well-liked outfits, except that I have the Celestron version.  For some reason the Sky-watcher Synscan is significantly cheaper. On the other hand, the Celestron software is probably easier to use.  I've never had much difficulty with it. (See the 64-post 'can't align my Synscan' thread currently running.) 

On no account buy the 203mm Newtonian on a manual EQ-5 mount - I've tried that combination and it's horrible - not user friendly at all. I could sell you this combo but that would be cruel. 🙂

Edited June 20, 2019 by Cosmic Geoff

[pellgarlic2]

4 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

At the ~£400 price point you are still having to make severe compromises between cost and the size & quality of the scope and mount. 
...
For looking at deep sky objects (visual) you mainly want aperture  i.e 8" or more ... a Newtonian might be more suitable and they are cheap so consider getting a small one as an accessory to an established setup.  
...
A step up from 90mm to 127 mm Mak ought to be a significant change if all the parts including eyepieces are good. 
...
On no account buy the 203mm Newtonian on a manual EQ-5 mount - I've tried that combination and it's horrible - not user friendly at all. I could sell you this combo but that would be cruel. 🙂

Ok, you've given me a lot more to think about, and I'm finding myself swinging back towards liking the idea of the Go-To setup  The reasons you give are very much in line with what I was thinking would be the benefits of such a setup.

However, that AZ GTi mount has a max weight rating of 5 kg, and 8-inch/200 mm newtonians seem to be nearly double that. So I'd need to look into a bigger mount, which would be more expensive. 😖

Your suggestion that "upsizing" the Mak would be significant conflicts with what "Mr niall" said a few posts back (it should be noted that I currently have a 102 mm, so moving up to a 127 would be less of an improvement than from a 90 mm scope).

It looks like my options (without sacrificing too much in any particular area) are either going to be:

1. Get a Go-To mount for my current scope, and maybe upgrade the OTA at some point in the future.
2. Upgrade my OTA just now, and try to patch up my existing tripod, and look into adding a Go-To device at some point in the future.

[Mr niall]

29 minutes ago, pellgarlic2 said:

Ok, you've given me a lot more to think about, and I'm finding myself swinging back towards liking the idea of the Go-To setup  The reasons you give are very much in line with what I was thinking would be the benefits of such a setup.

However, that AZ GTi mount has a max weight rating of 5 kg, and 8-inch/200 mm newtonians seem to be nearly double that. So I'd need to look into a bigger mount, which would be more expensive. 😖

Your suggestion that "upsizing" the Mak would be significant conflicts with what "Mr niall" said a few posts back (it should be noted that I currently have a 102 mm, so moving up to a 127 would be less of an improvement than from a 90 mm scope).

It looks like my options (without sacrificing too much in any particular area) are either going to be:

1. Get a Go-To mount for my current scope, and maybe upgrade the OTA at some point in the future.
2. Upgrade my OTA just now, and try to patch up my existing tripod, and look into adding a Go-To device at some point in the future.

Well there's no "right answer" its all just opinion (that's the problem with astronomy!). But its important to keep in mind the type of observing that you are wanting to do. 

Me and @Cosmic Geoff are, I think, at very different ends of the spectrum when it comes to observing. As a purely casual observer I disagree wholeheartedly the statement:

29 minutes ago, pellgarlic2 said:

£400 price point you are still having to make severe compromises between cost and the size & quality of the scope and mount. 

I don't think that's true at all. If you wanted to spend 2 or 3 thousand pounds on a setup it would be considerably better. But that doesn't mean the price point you are shopping at will mean you will have to make compromises of any sort, you just have to be aware of the upper limits of what equipment at that price point can achieve. Which is a very different thing entirely. 

I wholeheartedly, 1 million percent, standby the assertion that, if you already own a 102 mak, then buying a 127 mak is not going to give you the "upscaled experience" you would hope for. 

Have you thought about, instead - getting the 127 Mak on the AZGTi? This is over budget, but you could probably sell the 102 here or anywhere similar and recoup the difference. This choice seems to satisfy most of the criteria you've listed. The danger of these things is trying to make your choice's "fit" around your current setup, sometimes its better to start again; and you already like Mak's so it wouldn't be a risk.

Conversely an 8" dob would be a very different choice BUT much cheaper, and quite big; but it's a great all rounder too (and you can image the planets with them its not that difficult), but there is a lot to be said for GOTO (although I don't use it, I prefer the thrill of finding stuff myself, sad but true)

I wouldn't make your choice based purely on spec, there's an emotional element to any purchase like this. You've got to get the one that "feels" right I would say, even more than getting the one that ticks all the right boxes. But £400 is a lot of money, and it'll get you some smashing equipment, you just wont get an 8" GOTO. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Mr niall

[Cosmic Geoff]

10 hours ago, pellgarlic2 said:

It looks like my options (without sacrificing too much in any particular area) are either going to be:

1. Get a Go-To mount for my current scope, and maybe upgrade the OTA at some point in the future.
2. Upgrade my OTA just now, and try to patch up my existing tripod, and look into adding a Go-To device at some point in the future.

Good points.

However if your ultimate aim is to own an 8" GoTo outfit, you will have to upgrade both the scope and the mount.  An 8" f5 Newtonian is actually very pleasing for looking at star clusters and other deep-space objects, (the Perseus Double Cluster looks great in one) and as I mentioned can be cheap - the problem is what to mount it on.  My ultimate answer was to go for usability and get a used Celestron C8 SE (8" GoTo SCT), which I obtained for about half the price of a new one.  I could have spent as much or more getting a really good GoTo mount for the 8" Newtonian.  I definitely didn't want to persist with a manual mount having found the manually mounted 8" Newt to be an exercise in utter frustration.  I just couldn't find things with it that did not show up in the finderscope.   

You could also try EEVA. I put a planetary camera on an inexpensive 102mm f5 achromatic refractor atop an inexpensive Nexstar SLT GoTo mount and was gobsmacked by some of the near-live images I obtained.  It imaged galaxies I could barely see with the 8" SCT even at a better site. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Cosmic Geoff
EEVA

[pellgarlic2]

9 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

... if your ultimate aim is to own an 8" GoTo outfit, you will have to upgrade both the scope and the mount.  

I guess I need to do some more thinking about what my ultimate aim actually is... This all started off with "my birthday is coming up + my tripod is broken = tripod/mount upgrade time!", and then I got the idea of "tagging on" a new OTA of a different type to broaden my viewing options. That was probably going about things the wrong way round...  

I guess I just need to have a think and decide what's more important to me just now - more aperture for better deep-sky views, or a Go-To mount to make it easier to find stuff and help show the kids too. the Catch 22 is that a Go-To will be more pertinent for deep-sky stuff >_<

It's also clear that if I want to be able to use any Go-To mount I buy with any future larger scope I buy, I'll have to invest in something more substantial than the AZ GTi.

9 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

You could also try EEVA.

Woah there, Mr. Can-of-worms  Seriously though, I had never even heard of such a thing, and having read a bit about it now it sounds really interesting. But I think I'll focus (da-dum, tsh!) on sorting out a basic setup for now.  

[happy-kat]

AZGTI GO TO MOUNT HAS POTENTIAL TO SHOW YOU THOSE dso AS IT FOUND THEM FOR YOU WHICH MIGHT HAVE BEEN TRICKY USING THE MAK. (sorry caps lock was stuck)

Have you done any DSO fov checks with the calculator that is on here under astro tools, and I would use the widest lowest power eyepiece your mak can take. There is never one size fits all but for me portability is key to maximising opportunities.

[BGazing]

I bounced from 127 to SCT8, than added two smaller refractors.

Honestly, it makes no sense to make jump in such small increments, as the others have suggested, go at least to 150mm. You may keep 100 Mak as a portable grab and go for airline vacations and the like.

SCTs are less taxing on the mounts than comparably sized Maks.

[pellgarlic2]

Thanks for the further helpful replies - I'm getting a really good sense of the options, and how they work for different purposes or viewing preferences.

I'm currently mulling over the following possibility - to go for the AZ GTi mount and tripod, and also get a standalone Explorer 150P, subject to finding confirmation of this OTA's weight. Best I can figure, it's the same as the "BK P15075" on Skywatcher's website, which lists the tube weight as 4.93 kg:

http://www.skywatcher.com/product/bk-p15075-eq3-wsteel-tripod/

That would put it right at the upper limit of the payload capacity of the AZ GTi... Has anyone used it with an OTA of this weight that can offer any observations? If it's feasible, that would allow me to use either the newt or my mak on the AZ GTi mount, which would be quite nice

[happy-kat]

Could look out for a second hand skywatcher star discovery 150p OTA as same mirror but lighter construction. But is there enough clearance on an az-gti for the width of a 150p tube.

[Ricochet]

11 hours ago, pellgarlic2 said:

Thanks for the further helpful replies - I'm getting a really good sense of the options, and how they work for different purposes or viewing preferences.

I'm currently mulling over the following possibility - to go for the AZ GTi mount and tripod, and also get a standalone Explorer 150P, subject to finding confirmation of this OTA's weight. Best I can figure, it's the same as the "BK P15075" on Skywatcher's website, which lists the tube weight as 4.93 kg:

http://www.skywatcher.com/product/bk-p15075-eq3-wsteel-tripod/

That would put it right at the upper limit of the payload capacity of the AZ GTi... Has anyone used it with an OTA of this weight that can offer any observations? If it's feasible, that would allow me to use either the newt or my mak on the AZ GTi mount, which would be quite nice

Given that Skywatcher only bundle it with a lightweight version of the 130p, a 150p is probably over the limit. However, the weak point is the tripod, so if you were to buy the mount head, possibly extension, and a better tripod the 150p might be fine. 

[Mr niall]

13 hours ago, pellgarlic2 said:

Thanks for the further helpful replies - I'm getting a really good sense of the options, and how they work for different purposes or viewing preferences.

I'm currently mulling over the following possibility - to go for the AZ GTi mount and tripod, and also get a standalone Explorer 150P, subject to finding confirmation of this OTA's weight. Best I can figure, it's the same as the "BK P15075" on Skywatcher's website, which lists the tube weight as 4.93 kg:

http://www.skywatcher.com/product/bk-p15075-eq3-wsteel-tripod/

That would put it right at the upper limit of the payload capacity of the AZ GTi... Has anyone used it with an OTA of this weight that can offer any observations? If it's feasible, that would allow me to use either the newt or my mak on the AZ GTi mount, which would be quite nice

No that wouldnt work, I used an opticstar ar90 on an AzGTI - it came in at 4.2kg with finder and eyepiece and experienced wobbly tracking at anything above about 80x mag. I wouldn't recommend putting a 150 on there. FLO actually recommended against putting a 130pds on one as it would be pushing it. 

[pellgarlic2]

9 hours ago, Mr niall said:

No that wouldnt work, I used an opticstar ar90 on an AzGTI - it came in at 4.2kg with finder and eyepiece and experienced wobbly tracking at anything above about 80x mag. I wouldn't recommend putting a 150 on there. FLO actually recommended against putting a 130pds on one as it would be pushing it. 

Ah, nuts. 🙄 I did think there might well be a reason that the largest scope it's bundled with is the Explorer 130...

So the "Star Discovery" Go-To mount seems to be a bit more capable when it comes to payload weight. Perhaps this could be the answer to my search - a 150 mm Newt on a Star Discovery mount at £375:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/sky-watcher-star-discovery-150i.html

Or I could get the mount and tripod separately for £285, and pick up the OTA of my choice if the 150i is no good... 🤨

[Cosmic Geoff]

14 minutes ago, pellgarlic2 said:

So the "Star Discovery" Go-To mount seems to be a bit more capable when it comes to payload weight. Perhaps this could be the answer to my search - a 150 mm Newt on a Star Discovery mount at £375:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/sky-watcher-star-discovery-150i.html

It's an entry level telescope - if you read the small print you will see you can't collimate it. And to work the wifi mount you need to provide the "handset".   If the mount can get GPS from the tablet or phone that might be advantageous.

[pellgarlic2]

Ah, I didn't spot that about not being able to collimate the telescope, thanks for pointing that out 😞 However, there is the option of getting the mount/tripod separately from the OTA.

Star Discovery Mount & Tripod - £285
Sky-Watcher Explorer 150P - £178
Total - £463

It's pushing my budget a bit, but perhaps I could live with getting the new mount and tripod for now (which was my original intention - to replace/upgrade my broken tripod), and acquire the OTA as a Christmas present 🥺

Regarding providing the "handset", it seems along the same lines as my original line of interest - the AZ GTi, in that I would use my mobile phone to control it? (which I'm happy to do).

[happy-kat]

The skywatcher star discovery 150p OTA has same mirror but lighter construction, 150p are not all the same. The star discovery is collimatable via secondary mirror.

[Mr niall]

11 hours ago, pellgarlic2 said:

Ah, nuts. 🙄 I did think there might well be a reason that the largest scope it's bundled with is the Explorer 130...

So the "Star Discovery" Go-To mount seems to be a bit more capable when it comes to payload weight. Perhaps this could be the answer to my search - a 150 mm Newt on a Star Discovery mount at £375:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/sky-watcher-star-discovery-150i.html

Or I could get the mount and tripod separately for £285, and pick up the OTA of my choice if the 150i is no good... 🤨

Brilliant, I suggested that scope to you about 4 days ago 😉🤪

Like a circle in a circle, or a wheel within in a wheel, never ending or beginning, on an ever spinning reel haha.

What really helped me was writing down what I wanted from a scope, and what it needed to do for me, and what I didn't need it to do. 

I wouldn't put a standard 150 on a Star discovery mount. But the 150i is collimatable through the secondary. The primary is glued so it shouldn't need adjusting anyway as its set in the factory. The lack of tube rings and cell at the bottom keep it light. The views wouldn't be entry level....

The biggest issue with pushing the capacity of the mount is not so much the ability of a mount to work (in reality you can probably exceed the capacity of most mounts without damaging them in the short term) - but the real problem is that they become pretty much unusable through vibrations, wobbliness and lack of steadiness which can make the whole viewing experience a nightmare.

Also consider the length of the tube and the impact on the fulcrum if you've got something long - issues are expounded the further from the pivot point you get; which is why the heaviest bundled scope with the AZGTI is the 127 mak cos it's short. And even then it only tips the scales at about 3.5-3.6kg fully loaded

Edited June 23, 2019 by Mr niall

[pellgarlic2]

1 hour ago, Mr niall said:

Brilliant, I suggested that scope to you about 4 days ago 😉🤪

Like a circle in a circle, or a wheel within in a wheel, never ending or beginning, on an ever spinning reel haha.

So you did, my bad 😜. I overlooked it as I didn't realize at the time it was a Go-To mount, and was still bedazzled by the AZ GTi (which I still am to a large extent - I'm a gadget-oholic, and it's one nifty-looking little gadget  ).

I was making an assumption about the weight of the 150i compared to the 150p which it seems was inaccurate, so my assumption about the payload capability of the Star Discovery mount was also inaccurate 😔. I assume though, that the Star Discovery mount would be easily capable of carrying my 2 kg SkyMax 102 mak (which I just realised I've been incorrectly referring to as a "102T", which is actually a different scope - a refractor as opposed to a mak 🤓) .

Knowing that the 150i is actually collimatable, even if only by the secondary mirror makes it much more appealling. I'm going to check out some reviews of it, to get a better idea if I would be happy with it. The Star Discovery mount is a fair bit bigger and bulkier than the AZ GTi... (cue dream sequence of me prancing along a beach with the GTi cradled in my arms...  ) but I know they're both small and light compared to a proper GEM mount with counter-weights or the like.

I'm curious whether it would be possible to use the 150i OTA on the AZ GTi mount, as the AZ GTi and the Star Discovery are both listed as having "5 kg payload capacity"... But then I don't know if it's even possible to buy the 150i OTA separately.

I just need to figure out if the balance of capability versus ease-of-use of the Star Discovery 150i package is right for me (and relinquish the idea of being able to use the dinky little AZ GTi with a 6-inch reflector) .

[Mr niall]

27 minutes ago, pellgarlic2 said:

I'm curious whether it would be possible to use the 150i OTA on the AZ GTi mount, as the AZ GTi and the Star Discovery are both listed as having "5 kg payload capacity"... But then I don't know if it's even possible to buy the 150i OTA separately.

I just need to figure out if the balance of capability versus ease-of-use of the Star Discovery 150i package is right for me (and relinquish the idea of being able to use the dinky little AZ GTi with a 6-inch reflector) .

I wouldn't. 

No the 150i isn't available separately. You'd be looking at the 150p (too heavy) 150pl (much too long and too heavy) or the 150pds (shorter but much too heavy). Also they star discovery has a fairly beefy steel tripod which is much better than the AZGTi tripod which isn't revered for its stability or sturdiness.

Seriously - seriously seriously - you ain't going to get a 6 inch scope on the AZGTi. It doesn't matter what the weight limit is it just wouldn't work, you'd be asking too much of the mount, its just not meant for that. The bundled packages are about the biggest you'd want to put on there. 

The 150i is the biggest scope I've ever seen mounted on a AZ goto like that, you wont find bigger I promise. The next step up is a flextube dob goto but they're about £800 I think.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Mr niall

[pellgarlic2]

16 minutes ago, Mr niall said:

Seriously - seriously seriously - you ain't going to get a 6 inch scope on the AZGTi.

😢 Yeah, I guess I kind of knew that already, I was just clutching at straws, cos I really want to find a justification to buy it to satisfy my gadget-oholism 🤪 Thanks for your patience in trying to get me to accept that.

I've been looking into the Star Discovery 150i package, and in particular watched this youtube video which gives a glowing review of it (albeit about the non-wifi predecessor 150P, but I believe it's the same OTA, and the mount requires a smartphone to control rather than being bundled with a hand controller), and I'm really coming around to thinking it might be my best option - it's in-budget, decent amount of aperture, has Go-To, and I can use it with my 102 mak. Only downside is it's a bit less portable than the AZ GTi, but the upsides are much more significant:

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by pellgarlic2