Minimum size ROR shed for imaging

[Jim09]

Hello everyone, I intend to build a ROR shed with a pier in my tiny garden , with garden being tiny I need to make the Obsy/shed as small as possible, this will be right next to my extension so hoping to use extension to sit and control the scope with wired or wireless setup , just need enough space for the scope (?)

I currently have 200p Skywatcher Dobsonian which I'm and hoping to convert to a Newtonian with couple rings and a dovetail or invest in a 250PDS or some other scope good for imaging further down the line.

Looking at my garden I think I can spare 5ft x 5ft , I can push up bit more but that wound't be ideal with my small garden.

Is the 5x5 is realistic in my circumstances ? are there any other options I can go without spending too much money , ie go for a smaller scope which will still be good for imaging with a  smaller shed etc

 

Thanks

 

[pete_l]

My imaging ED80 + HEQ5 is a perfect fit in an octagonal "shed" 1.2m x 1.2m
But when planning yours, don't forget that the roof has to go somewhere, too!

[Davey-T]

3 minutes ago, Jim09 said:

Hello everyone, I intend to build a ROR shed with a pier in my tiny garden , with garden being tiny I need to make the Obsy/shed as small as possible, this will be right next to my extension so hoping to use extension to sit and control the scope with wired or wireless setup , just need enough space for the scope (?)

I currently have 200p Skywatcher Dobsonian which I'm and hoping to convert to a Newtonian with couple rings and a dovetail or invest in a 250PDS or some other scope good for imaging further down the line.

Looking at my garden I think I can spare 5ft x 5ft , I can push up bit more but that wound't be ideal with my small garden.

Is the 5x5 is realistic in my circumstances ? are there any other options I can go without spending too much money , ie go for a smaller scope which will still be good for imaging with a  smaller shed etc

 

Thanks

 

Hi Jim and welcome to SGL.

I use a Keter 6 foot square plastic shed converted to roll off roof, a few examples in the DIY observatory section.

Easily erected by one person in a weekend and the roof can be lifted off by hand if you don't want to spend time converting it or it can be done at your leisure after setting up and using.

Dave

[Yawning Angel]

You can get away with enough room to swing the balanced scope with accessories, if you don't intend to ever observe. I'd allow some clearance for future upgrades, if you can...these scopes have a habit of growing!

Consider if you'll park the scope 'weights down' or horizontal too, this governs your roof height

[Jim09]

5 minutes ago, pete_l said:

My imaging ED80 + HEQ5 is a perfect fit in an octagonal "shed" 1.2m x 1.2m
But when planning yours, don't forget that the roof has to go somewhere, too!

Thank you, yes I was planning with the space for roof to roll off , that's good news for me regarding the size.

[Adam J]

My scope is in a 1.6 x 1.6 meter obsy. But I only image in that never visual, even for imaging I would not want it any smaller. You need room to pass between the counter weight bar and the obsy wall and I have to suck it in as it is. 

 

[Jim09]

8 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Hi Jim and welcome to SGL.

I use a Keter 6 foot square plastic shed converted to roll off roof, a few examples in the DIY observatory section.

Easily erected by one person in a weekend and the roof can be lifted off by hand if you don't want to spend time converting it or it can be done at your leisure after setting up and using.

Dave

Thanks Dave, That's an excellent idea and cost effective too  regarding the plastic shed, being able to easily remove it I think I can afford to have 6ft square one , do you think 6x4 one would be too small for my purposes. ?

[Jim09]

5 minutes ago, Adam J said:

My scope is in a 1.6 x 1.6 meter obsy. But I only image in that never visual, even for imaging I would not want it any smaller. You need room to pass between the counter weight bar and the obsy wall and I have to suck it in as it is. 

 

Thanks Adam, what scope setup do you have if you don't mind me asking?

[Davey-T]

4 minutes ago, Jim09 said:

Thanks Dave, That's an excellent idea and cost effective too  regarding the plastic shed, being able to easily remove it I think I can afford to have 6ft square one , do you think 6x4 one would be too small for my purposes. ?

It may be a bit tight with the 200P of more concern is clearance  over the walls restricting the altitude you can observe down to.

Be good to make a quick sketch of your horizons as it may affect the orientation of a 6 X 4 shed.

Dave

[Adam J]

 

Just now, Jim09 said:

Thanks Adam, what scope setup do you have if you don't mind me asking?

I image with a 130PDS on a HEQ5 pro, so the scope is reasonably short. Like I say the main limitation is the room between the counter weight bar and the obsy wall when the scope is pointing to zenith and the counter weight bar is horizontal. I imagine with a heave weight mount it would become impossible to pass. 

The other thing you need to consider is that as the walls move in closer to the centre of the obsy you have to raise the scope higher to allow it to see targets close to the horizon, not a problem for me as I am limited ti 25 degrees + by the surrounding buildings on all sides and so there was no point in designing the obsy to permit the scope to see any lower targets. However, if you make it smaller still they you are going to end up mounting higher and that means issues keeping the scope from hitting the roof in the home position. 

Lots to consider. 

Adam

[Yawning Angel]

Don't forget you'll need to fit a person in, from time to time, for maintenance if nothing else. 6'x4' (1800x1200mm) would be quite crowded with a 200p in there. Less than 100mm clearance each side across the narrow, assuming it balances at halfway

[Adam J]

6 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

It may be a bit tight with the 200P of more concern is clearance  over the walls restricting the altitude you can observe down to.

Be good to make a quick sketch of your horizons as it may affect the orientation of a 6 X 4 shed.

Dave

yes thats exactly the issue. This was my solution but op wants to go smaller still. As you can see the scope sits slightly above the obsy wall and a hatch is required on one end of the roof to allow it to roll off without collecting the scope along the way. 

[Jim09]

3 minutes ago, Adam J said:

 

I image with a 130PDS on a HEQ5 pro, so the scope is reasonably short. Like I say the main limitation is the room between the counter weight bar and the obsy wall when the scope is pointing to zenith and the counter weight bar is horizontal. I imagine with a heave weight mount it would become impossible to pass. 

The other thing you need to consider is that as the walls move in closer to the centre of the obsy you have to raise the scope higher to allow it to see targets close to the horizon, not a problem for me as I am limited ti 25 degrees + by the surrounding buildings on all sides and so there was no point in designing the obsy to permit the scope to see any lower targets. However, if you make it smaller still they you are going to end up mounting higher and that means issues keeping the scope from hitting the roof in the home position. 

Lots to consider. 

Adam

 

Good point regarding the side walls and horizon, looks like 6x6 for me , being a removable plastic shed I can afford to spare that much space from my garden.

[Davey-T]

Good version here with sideways ROR this allows for mounting the scope higher.

Dave

 

[Jim09]

52 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Hi Jim and welcome to SGL.

I use a Keter 6 foot square plastic shed converted to roll off roof, a few examples in the DIY observatory section.

Easily erected by one person in a weekend and the roof can be lifted off by hand if you don't want to spend time converting it or it can be done at your leisure after setting up and using.

Dave

I managed to find your build thread and photos and it's interesting.

Do you have any more information/pictures of your elevating pier setup? I was thinking of the idea of motorized elevating pier all this time but didn't find any information anywhere.

 

[Adam J]

9 minutes ago, Jim09 said:

I managed to find your build thread and photos and it's interesting.

Do you have any more information/pictures of your elevating pier setup? I was thinking of the idea of motorized elevating pier all this time but didn't find any information anywhere.

 

It does not elevate, its fixed, I did have to increase the mounting height when i changed the design to allow me to walk under the roof rails. Is that is what you mean?

So when you see it in the image below a 20cm fixed extension was added to the pier to raise the scope higher than seen here and compensate for the thickness of the white concreate blocks I added to raise the height of the whole obsy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have some more pictures of the scope etc setup within the obsy but ill have to send those this evening. 

[Jim09]

8 minutes ago, Adam J said:

It does not elevate, its fixed, I did have to increase the mounting height when i changed the design to allow me to walk under the roof rails. Is that is what you mean?

So when you see it in the image below a 20cm fixed extension was added to the pier to raise the scope higher than seen here and compensate for the thickness of the white concreate blocks I added to raise the height of the whole obsy. 

I have some more pictures of the scope etc setup within the obsy but ill have to send those this evening. 

 

Thanks Adam, I was on about Dave's telescopic pier which would allow to go with a smaller size shed. 

Below picture taken from Dave's thread.

 

 

 

[souls33k3r]

Does it have to be a RoR shed? why not just put a pier in and that's it. It won't take any more space than a ... pier ... and you'll still have your beautiful space for the garden to enjoy

[Adam J]

3 minutes ago, Jim09 said:

 

Thanks Adam, I was on about Dave's telescopic pier which would allow to go with a smaller size shed. 

Below picture taken from Dave's thread.

 

 

 

Ah ok, that pier looks more expensive than my whole obsy. 

[Davey-T]

1 hour ago, Jim09 said:

Do you have any more information/pictures of your elevating pier setup? I was thinking of the idea of motorized elevating pier all this time but didn't find any information anywhere.

If you PM me your email I can send you a link to one drive video of pier going up and down.

Made it myself.

Dave

Telescopic pier base for sale here, don't know if it's still available.

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/334889-linak-dl2-lifting-column-for-variable-height-pier/

 

[Davey-T]

1 hour ago, Jim09 said:

Do you have any more information/pictures of your elevating pier setup? I was thinking of the idea of motorized elevating pier all this time but didn't find any information anywhere.

Should be heading your way if I've done it right 

Dave

[old_eyes]

As others have noted you need to think about accessing the scope in order to set-up and tweak it. It is not only space to squeeze past, you have to bend over to get at things and unless you have contortionist skills that means more clearance! I found this description of the 'exclusion zone' around an equatorial mount very useful in my planning https://www.blackwaterskies.co.uk/2013/12/observatory-planning-and-german-equatorial-mounts/.  There is a whole lot of useful information on the site about building a small imaging only observatory.

[pete_l]

1 hour ago, old_eyes said:

As others have noted you need to think about accessing the scope in order to set-up and tweak it.

In that case smaller is undoubtedly better.

With my "octagon" the roof lifts off entirely (small roof, light weight) and there is a removable panel on the south side. So I have all the access I need. And because the walls are so close to the telescope, I can reach in and do whatever is needed, such as initial polar alignment.
In fact, I'm in the process of making it smaller!
By removing the HEQ5 tripod and replacing it with a pier, I can lop a foot of so off the height, making it even easier to get into.

[old_eyes]

38 minutes ago, pete_l said:

In that case smaller is undoubtedly better.

With my "octagon" the roof lifts off entirely (small roof, light weight) and there is a removable panel on the south side. So I have all the access I need. And because the walls are so close to the telescope, I can reach in and do whatever is needed, such as initial polar alignment.
In fact, I'm in the process of making it smaller!
By removing the HEQ5 tripod and replacing it with a pier, I can lop a foot of so off the height, making it even easier to get into.

Exactly so. Your choices are big enough to move around comfortably, or small enough that everything is in arms-reach from the outside. I have gone for big enough to move around in (and to change my mind about telescope!). I think small enough for easy external access requires careful thought.

[Jim09]

Thank for all the replies.

I have two possible locations in my garden

1. A shed big enough for a 6x6, but due to the location I will have clear view of the north sky but not so much in the south sky , about 30 degree horizon (clear sky after buildings/trees) on north and 60-70 degrees on south.

2. A pier on the other side of the garden will give 45 degrees on south and 30-35 on north, planning permission rejected for a shed on this location by wife.

Ideally I'd like to have a shed compared to a pier as that was my dream project from my renting days, not just observing part but  it was a case of building it with my son and getting ROR  automatons and other electronic automatons with him now that I've bought a house. 

 

What do you guys think of options and the clear skies I have with both locations ? I hear it's best to have clear sky on the south sky more than north sky.