Complete Newbie

[Saxony]

Hi, I know absolutly nothing about astronomy but me and my daughters are interested in learning more. So first off, what would be a good telescope to buy and what would we be able to see?

My daughters, I am sure would be quite happy just to see the other planets but I want to see as much as possible lol.

I have downloaded Stellarium and been looking around but haven't really a clue as to what I am doing. I mean I zoomed in on a "red cluster" see no idea what that would be called, pretty sure it's not red cluster though lol. 7 Sgr? That would be amazing to look at for real, but like I say I don't even know if that is possible without spending £1000's.

So any websites/info/book recommendations would be appreciated. At the moment I could probably stretch to about £300. (£400 if it meant alot of difference).

Thanks in advance

Sax

[thing]

Hi Sax, welcome to SGL. Brilliant that your kids are interested as well. There will be lots of advice given to you I imagine but mine would be to just hang around here for a while, ask questions and read the tips boards. Don't rush into buying anything yet, tempting though that may be. Whatever you decide to buy you will get something decent to start you off for £400, even more decent if you get something 2nd hand.

[Jeff RV]

Hi Sax, welcome to SGL, I'll leave the decision of which scope to purchase to others on here.

Although you will see some colour through a telescope when viewing stars etc, you will not see the vivid tones that you see in the many images here on SGL and in the various magazines, these are achieved through imaging with Camera's, CCD imagers, or Web cams, our eyes just do not see all the light in that spectrum.

But this is a fantastic and captivating hobby, and i daresay you along with your daughters will soon want to be taking some nice colour pics of these fantastic sights.

Welcome aboard.

Jeff.

[barkis]

Hi, and a warm welcome to The SGL Forum. You made a good start by joining this very knowlegable group.

Sometimes it is suggested that binoculars are the best introductory optical aid for viewing the night skies, as well as being useful for daylight use.

However, as you have children, somehow that Idea might not appeal. Telescopes vary a great deal, and there are different types for different object investigations.

Deep sky Objects, abbreviated DSO's, are mainly objects way outside the Solar system, and also outside our own galaxy. Most of the starlike objects in the night sky, are residents of our own Milky Way Galaxy. The only naked eye visible galaxy to be seen, is the great Andromeda Spiral, which is well over 2 million light years away.

To observe these, requires a telescope with a fairly large mirror or lens.

Generally speaking, mirror scopes (Reflectors) are cheaper than Lens scopes (Refractors ) inch for inch.

A good 8" F5 Reflector, will serve well in both capacities, and when mounted on an equatorial mount that will drive the scope to counteract the earths rotation, it is a very useful instrument indeed. I have to say, the mount for a telescope, is a very important part of the setup, and should not be underestimated. It can make the difference between an enjoyable experience, or a nightmare.

Planet and lunar observing is a popular thing too, and scope choice plays a big part in that.

Ther are lots to choose from, but your budget will play a big role in the selection. A figure of £400 should net you a decent telescope with mount, and a couple of eyepieces.

Right at the top of the SGL Page, you will see a logo for First Light Optics., you can contact them by telephone, or email, and get some firsst class advice. In fact, we have a retailer section in the index page, where you have a choice of vendors.

Good Luck

Ron.

[centroid]

Its always difficult advising others how to spend their money, especially when just starting out in this hobby, as expectations are usually quite high, and it is so easy to disappoint.

There is a very true saying that goes "the best telescope, is the one you'll actually use", and if its not easy to do so, it will likely to be put aside.

So, firstly a good book, and one that gets recommended again and again is 'Turn left at Orion'.

The first thing that you need to get straight in your head, is that even with the largest of amateur telescopes, you are not going to see what you see in Stellarium, magazines, and on this forum.

These pictures are taken with long exposure imaging, which captures far more than the eye can see.

Once you get things into perspective, you can set your expectations at a sensible level, and start to enjoy what you can see.

Most certainly, even a modest telescope will show you fantastic detail of the Lunar surface, the rings of saturn, and the 'belts' of Jupiter, and it's Moons.

You can also see the larger and brighter deep sky objects (DSO's), such as the Orion Nebula, and the Andromeda Galaxy (albeit as a misty grey smudge). In fact with the exception of the Orion Nebula, all DSOs, will appear as little more than a misty smudge.

However, again, putting this into perspective, you are actually viewing something millions of light years away, and the light of that misty grey smudge, as you see the Andromeda Galaxy, has taken some 2.2 Million Years to reach you eye.

I would always advise someone starting out, to go for a reflecting telescope, as this way a useful sized aperture can be purchased for a reasonable figure.

Purely my personal opinion, but I've always considered an 8" reflector to be a sensible minimum.

An equatorially mounted telescope is nice to have, but it does involve some complications, in that it needs to be aligned with the Celestial Pole, in order to function properly. This is not difficult, but does take a bit of understanding.

I think where I'm heading here, is towards of Dobsonian mounted Newtonian Reflector. This a very simple arrangement to get up and running with, and certainly provides the 'best bang per buck', in that it is possible to buy a largish aperture telescope, without 'breaking the bank'.

It does require that you learn your way around the night sky, and the art of 'star hopping', in order to track down DSOs, but this is no bad thing, and provides an excellent basis on which to build your experience.

Hope this helps,

Dave

[timetraveller]

Hello Sax and welcome to SGL and to this amazing life long Hobby to both you and your girls. The advice you get here ,will be both educated and sound given on the most part, by People with years of experience so in effect you have just joined a human version of encyclopedia galactic. The advice you have been given so far is excellent re scopes. I would suggest you think about downloading a couple of freebie software program's, in particular Stellarium which is a superb real time Planetarium programme also virtual Moon Atlas and maybe Cart es du Ciel which is star atlas type programme which will allow you to produce your own star charts for your location

.I would strongly recommend you get hold of the book Turn Left at Orion its a superb easy to read guide book of what you can see in the night sky with a small telescope and more importantly how to find them. Finally just take your time reading through the various Primer's and tutorials and posts here on the forum. That little lot should keep you busy for a while. all the best and dark skies Pete

[TheThing]

If you're looking for a great starter scope, you cannot really do better that the Skywatcher 130. Try and get the 130pm as it has a motorised mount (it's not a GOTO, but it means that you can keep the object your looking at in the field of view with no effort on your part.

It's only a 5" reflector, but it comes well recommended - S@N, Astronomy Now and Sir Patrick himself all rate it.

It's well below budget so you can spend more on those extras - Turn Left... which has already been mentioned is ESSENTIAL! Also a planisphere, red light, moon filter and maybe a couple more eyepieces (EP's).

We'd love to hear how you get on. Keep us posted!

[philsail1]

A warm welcome to Stargazers Lounge Forum "Sax." I can see you are getting plenty of help and advice!

I agree with the advice "don't rush in to buy a scope just yet."

Good suggestion to obtain the book "Turn Left at Orion." I have the book, and it does give clear and straightforward guidance on how to find things in the night sky.

Have you got a pair of binoculars by the way?

A "good quality" pair of 7x50's or 8x42's will allow you to see much more than you can with just your eyes, and they will give you an idea of the kind of views you are likely to see with a telescope - of course with a telescope you will have greater magnification to enable you view the planets. The right pair of binoculars will give you a good, clear and bright view of the stars in the night sky. (I'm sure you know that should never, ever look at the Sun through either binoculars or telescopes!!).

If you have a pair of binoculars, forgive me, but if you haven't got a pair, then it's an excellent way to introduce you to the wonders of the night skies.

Best wishes,

philsail1

[rusirius]

I agree with the advice about binnoculars and a good book. That's usually a good first step and its where I started out too. You don't say how old your daughters are but if they very young and they must have a telescope then I suspect that they will probably not want to be distracted by the complexities of polar aligning an equatorial mount. GOTO telescopes will likely be out of your budget range and the ones that aren't are probably not worth bothering with. The easiest telescope for them to use would probably be a Dobsonian mounted Newtonian (Dob for short). No complicated mount to worry about, just point it where you want it.

Something like one of these would be fine.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/products.php?cat=31

I would speak to the guys at First Light Optics prior to purchase as they are very helpful.

The disadvantage with a Dob (or any non-motorised scope) is that since the sky appears to be constantly moving due to the earths rotation, the object you are looking at will constantly drift out of view in the eyepiece. If they/you are prepared to tackle an equatorial mount then a Newtonian on a motorised EQ mount such as the Skywatcher 130pm is a good option (see http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=s130pm). The motor drive counteracts the apparent movement of the sky and will therefore keep the scope pointing at the object being observed. However you will get a bigger mirror and ease of use on a Dob for the same money so you will need to weigh it up.

For astronomy, 10x50 is considered appropriate for had held binnoculars, but again, for someone younger, the weight might be an issue so moderately priced (not budget) binnocular options such as the ones philsail1 suggests will be somewhat smaller and lighter so might be better choices. I wouldn't go for anything too expensive though. Children have a habbit of dropping things!

Expectations are often exaggerated by the printed material on telescope boxes, astronomy magazines and books. You will not be able to attain views like many of the wonderful detailed images you see printed but there is still much to see. What you actually get to see depends not just on the size of your telescope but on the surrounding level of background light. If you are in a city area with a plethora of streeghtlights and floodlights then you will see much less than someone in the country away from the glare of the city. If you are fortunate to be in an area with totally black skies (very rare these days) then you will see a great deal.

Stellarium is a usefull tool and I use it all the time for locating objects and even driving my GOTO telescope. It will come into its own once you start to familiarise yourself with the night sky. Astronomy magazines like Astronomy Now and others give you a star chart for the current month and some provide information about objects to look for as well as insightful articles on other astronomy subjects and may be of some help.

Hope this helps.

[Astro_Baby]

Hi Sax,

Its a great hobby and if your kids are interested too thats even better. I wont advise on scopes and stuff other than to say you wont see stuff in the telecope as it appears in astronomy magazines BUT what you will see is can still be very fascinating stuff.

Anyway - I'm sure you'll get some good advice here and also from Steve at FLO who is very helpful.

[ngc2403]

weome to the forum Sax,

as you have A LOT OF POSTS i will make this quick

TRY TO GET A LOOK THROUGH AS MANY TELESCOPES AS POSSIBLE, first before buying because personal experience counts for alot. think of it like a test drive.

enjoy the site :wave:

[Saxony]

Wow, so much to learn, I am more excited than the girls about this potential new hobby I think lol, the oldest two are 12 and 8. I ordered "turn left at orion" today as it wasn't in stock at my local bookstore, I am looking forward to receiving that within the next couple of days. I really want to get a telescope now but am holding off until I know more, I don't want to end up with something I will regret. Ultimately I would love to be able to take some photo's, I have a cannon 350 and a couple of lenses at the moment but I am still very much a beginner with that also and no idea what I would need to add to my photograthy equipment to take some decent photos of the moon/space etc. I'll keep reading and learning for now.

Thanks for all your help so far, I am sure I will have loads more questions soon.

Sax

[thing]

Wow, so much to learn, I am more excited than the girls about this potential new hobby I think lol, the oldest two are 12 and 8. I ordered "turn left at orion" today as it wasn't in stock at my local bookstore, I am looking forward to receiving that within the next couple of days. I really want to get a telescope now but am holding off until I know more, I don't want to end up with something I will regret. Ultimately I would love to be able to take some photo's, I have a cannon 350 and a couple of lenses at the moment but I am still very much a beginner with that also and no idea what I would need to add to my photograthy equipment to take some decent photos of the moon/space etc. I'll keep reading and learning for now.

Thanks for all your help so far, I am sure I will have loads more questions soon.

Sax

You have a Canon 350? Excellent camera for astroimaging. I think you're going to like this new hobby. You can certainly mount the camera itself to the scope (called piggybacking), good for wide field shots but where the magic comes in is mounting the camera body without any lens to the scope. This is called prime focus and you will like it. A lot.

[Saxony]

"You have a Canon 350? Excellent camera for astroimaging" quote by thing (need to work out how to do that lol)

Great, one less thing to buy lol

[thing]

Just press the quote button at the top right hand side of the post.

[timetraveller]

hello Saxony

if you want to get in Astrophotography that is going to have implications on the type of scope you are going to need. and the exact type of photography is also an important issue too.

if its planetarty imaging you are going to want to do then a refracting telescope, that's one with a big lens in front will give you greater contrast and better detail.they are also good for double stars. but if your more into DSO's that's deep space imaging things like galaxies and globular and open clusters that sort of thing you are going to need either a Reflector also known as a Newtonian or as an alternative you can get what is called an SCT or Schmidt Cassegrain. this last type of scope is a sort of hybrid cross between a refractor and a Newtonian reflector. like the refracting scope it has a large glass lens in the front but has a mirror in the back the beauty of these scopes is they give you large apateur but short focal length tubes but they are a lot more expensive either way with all scopes Light is king. the greater the light gathering the more you can see and photograph.

To attach your Cannon to your scope, when you get it in whats called primary focus that's with the camera without a lens attached, connected to the focus tube were you would normally put the eyepiece ,you will need a photo adapter with a connector ring that fits your type of camera.

I strongly suggest that you take some time looking at the different scopes advertised at First Light Optics or Flo for short . If you click on the big orange sign at the top of the forum,s home page it will take you to their on line shop and you can either phone or email either Steve or James who will give you expert and totally unbiased advice they give superb service, and yes its were I brought my big skywatcher explorer 8" reflector from. Oh one final but very important thing make sure you get a really good heavy duty equatorial mount that is or can be motorised i would suggest the HEQ5 or HEQ6 mount its almost more important than the actual scope as stability and the ability to track accurately are vital for Astro photography.

sorry for the amount of info but there is a lot to learn when you first start but the golden rule really is take your time it will pay dividends in the end best wishes Pete

[Saxony]

Ok, first off I want to thank you for all your great advice so far. I can now see that I really need to work out what I want to see and do before I decide on a scope. So I decided for starters I would invest in some better binoculars, I have been toying with the idea for a while now anyway so this was a good excuse to splash out. I have ended up with some 8 x 42's after talking to the guy in Jessops, if they don't help much with the stargazing at least we can still look at the birds .

I have also explained to the girls that we won't be seeing masses of colour etc so now they are focusing their attentions on wanting to find constellations. We bought what seems to be a very good children's book, (although I have actually learnt a lot myself just flicking through it :oops: ) It tells us good binocular sights and explains pretty much everything about space in simple terms. I am really impressed with it so far to be honest. My copy of "Turn Left at Orion" actually arrived today as well which was quite impressive as I didn't order it until about 2pm yesterday.

So all we need now are some clear skies to get out and see if we can find anything with the binoculars. We are quite lucky I think, in that although we live in a city, we are right on the edge and our back garden looks out over lakes and fields with no houses in sight. I am not sure if it will really help though as obviously the other way there is still loads of lights?

Oh and lastly apparently David Hinds is only a 20-30 min drive from me so me and my brother are thinking of taking a trip over there next week sometime.

Sax

[thing]

Sounds like you are taking exactly the right steps.

[Saxony]

Ow, my neck hurts lol. Well given that I am a complete newbie, forgive me for my excitment here but tonight I found Alcor and Mizar! (I didn't even know their names yesterday, or that they existed as such, my dad showed me "the big dipper" when I was young, so it was really amazing to find out that it contains a double star and I could see them tonight.) There are so many stars visable tonight though, I had trouble finding anything else that I could identify. I was trying to find Polaris and Ursa Minor, but I couldn't figure them out yet. Sorry, I am sure this seems really trivial to you guys but it made my day

Sax

[ngc2403]

it is always nice to hear someone speak about something they really enjoy and the smile on our face is clear for everyone to see

well done :hello1:

[thing]

It's not trivial at all, never feel that your observations aren't needed somehow because you are new, we want to hear about what you saw!

[rusirius]

Even with 8x42's you can still explore the skies and see plenty more than with the naked eye. Here are a few more ideas:

The Pleiades (7 sisters), currently to the East is a good binnocular target. You might try Jupiter to the South-West (bright object, appears first thing at sunset, you can't miss it) you might just make out a couple of its moons close by. Also look straight up at the Zenith. The milky way is directly overhead and you will see a backdrop of billions of stars. Close to Casseiopea just below and to the right of the famous 'W' is the double cluster - readily discernable in binnoculars.

[Brandon]

"Ow my neck hurts lol."

I used to attach my binos to a broom handle for that reason but I'm sure u can come up with something a little more creative LOL

[Saxony]

Thanks for the idea's rusirius will be sure to try and find them with the binoculars next time it's clear.

OK, I am still trying to decide which scope to buy, I think I am edging towards the Skywatcher Explorer 200P (HEQ5), (which is above the price I originally said, but someone has offered me some money towards one as an early Christmas prezzie). I like the idea of a GOTO but the extra cost is a bit much at the moment. I did see that you can buy an upgrade to convert it to a GOTO later though, that's if I am understanding everything I am reading correctly

Part of me thinks maybe to start off smaller but then I think if I am going to buy one I may as well get something decent.

I still haven't decided for sure yet though, does anyone have an opinion on the above Skywatcher?

Sax

[rusirius]

The GOTO is a bit of a luxury to be honest but nice if you can afford it. However you can do without it and a motor driven mount such as the HEQ5 will more than suffice and allow you to try astrophotography.

There is a "hardly used" one being sold here:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=20950

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=20949

Total £425, but £375 if both items purchased together.

Might be worth a look, otherwsie I am confident FLO will provide you with excellent service.