Time for a change?

[Badweather]

On 10/24/2017 at 02:46, lancman said:

Hello, I currently have a skyliner 200p which I have enjoyed but I feel its a bit big and cumbersome for me. So my question is what next, I fancy a goto scope just for the convenience and easy of use. I have about 400 pounds to spend and enjoy looking at deep space objects and planets. I've been looking at nexstar 102 slt or maybe skywatcher skymax 127 , any recommendations would be greatly received. Thanks in advance.

Budgetting for GOTO will take away significantly from aperture.

And while a skilled observer can still pull it out of a smaller aperture, that's usually after using a larger scope for quite a while.

I wonder if there is a kit to retrofit goto to your 200P. They offer goto on that line so they may have a simple and easy solution.

I'm personally enjoying my Celestron Nextar 8SE but I'm really happy I have 10x50 binoculars. I found the double cluster with the 10x50's the other evening and used the 8SE to confirm that I was in fact looking at the double cluster.

So my personal inclination is to buy the 300p without goto. And that is because I'm a mile high, with moderate to severe LP, and there is only so much available to an 8" SCT. Plus I'm finding out I'm not that into GOTO, and more into developing the star hopping skills. Perhaps I'm the wrong person to be answering but I do, I think, bring up some fairly good points.

So I'm definitely looking to increase aperture and I'm totally ignoring your mention of "big and cumbersome" at least in this suggestion of just retro-fitting GOTO.

I nearly lost my mind when I got to a dark site, then the next day realizing that that experience would not be normal (because I don't own a car), and now I have to get a car because going to a dark site is now a priority. Being disabled and not yet awarded disability, I've got some serious limitations. Back included. Getting a car is not going to be easy.

So two things on my list: A car. A Skyliner 300P FlexTube Dobsonian to really enjoy those dark sites with. I see that is listing on First Light optics for 819 pounds, just over a thousand dollars for me which is, I think, a lot of telescope for the money.

But I'd be trying to think of ways to, as someone else mentioned, permanently mounting your telescope outside if that is something you could do. Spend the 400 pounds ensuring you could do that and perhaps the heavy lifting is gone and you get to keep your aperture?

Is there any way to try the aperture you're thinking of purchasing?

I would try and track a smaller scope down of the size you're thinking of buying and see if you could look through it and test drive it before you buy it for an evening or two. Often clubs have loaner telescopes that you can check out. They are usually not large scopes, but I wouldn't be surprised to find they had a 6SE or something similar that you  could try out.

On 10/24/2017 at 03:36, John said:

Your challenge is that the Skyliner 200P is a very good scope indeed for observing deep sky objects and the planets. A £400 GOTO scope will be much less capable in terms of the views it gives even if the GOTO function does point conveniently find the targets to point the scope at. Once the scope is on target the experience at the eyepiece is inevitably going to be less satisfying that the 200P gives. 

 

 

John is so right about this.

 

On 10/25/2017 at 13:03, scarp15 said:

Keep the dob and invest in a good pair of binoculars.

This is probably the best suggestion!

See if the binoculars satisfy your urge to lighten the load.

there are of course some issues with them as well. I suggest using a poolside lounge chair (adjustable) so you can scan the horizon using your arms in a relaxed manner with 10x50's at first.

The Celestron up Close G2 10x50's for $34.00 us dollars are not fantastic but they have a nice wide FOV, and they're light and inexpensive. Bak-7 prisms. Not perfect at the edge, but you've got nearly an extra degree than the Bushnell 10x50's which run anywhere from $37 to $69 USD.

I suggest these because they might tell you if this is the direction to go without breaking the bank.

If so, then you can think about parallelogram astro binos which quite a few people find very enjoyable and relatively easy compared to lugging out the light bucket.

Unfortunately, giant astronomy binoculars with a sturdy mount are not inexpensive even if you go the cheap route and buy the Celestron 15x70's with tripod and mount, I think that exceeds your 400 pound budget by probably a 150 pounds I'm guessing.

But if you find that you like the bino's, and you're not using the light bucket, maybe think about selling it if you haven't gotten it out in a whole year.

On 10/25/2017 at 14:00, alanjgreen said:

Lancman,

If you want to buy new then this 6” reflector is about as big as you can get within budget

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/sky-watcher-star-discovery-150p.html

you just need to buy a decent power tank for it, don’t go for batteries as they make the scope behave odd when the power is not constant, plus batteries don’t last long.

Over budget, there is the celestron nexstar se 6”

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/se-series/celestron-nexstar-6se.html

but then you also need the same power tank and also a dew shield!

unfortunately, the drop from 8” to 6” will be noticeable at the eyepiece, but as someone else said, “if it gets you using the scope!”

Is there a second hand market in Cyprus ? as your best bet would be a second hand 8” SCT. Small, compact and with goto. This would match your old dob for views. Alas, even second hand will be over budget.

Alan

I have to agree with Alan here as well.

going with goto is going to significantly reduce aperture

 

[cletrac1922]

Have a 10" dob which use most of the time with schools and scout/guide groups, and easy to set up without "go-to"

For tracking have a ED80 on a EQ5 external drive mount

ED80 is great, and not sure fits into your budget with the pound

Perhaps go along to a local club, and see what members are using, and price range for your budget

Cheers

John

[MBJ]

11 hours ago, Louis D said:

For the same reason I rarely align my DSCs.  I have to be able to see two bright stars to polar align.  This wasn't an issue 20 years ago when the trees in my back yard were 6' tall.  Now they're 30' tall and broad.  My north and east views are all but blotted out and my southerly views are about 30 degrees wide, so I get at most 2 hours on particular targets (west has always been blocked by the house, but that's also the direction of city center, so no big loss).  Also, if I move my scope to get a better view of something; boom, I've got to realign again.  If all you want is tracking, you can go with an equatorial platform.  Rough polar alignment will get you minutes of tracking at a time.

Goto makes perfect sense in an observatory situation.  Perhaps once I get that retirement property in the New Mexico mountains at 9000' I'll go that route.

Your issues with polar alignment still dont make goto bad for everyone else.

There are lots of goto mounts that dont need polar alignment.

Celestrons starsense is easy....3 minutes and ready to view all night....all objects in fov everytime.

Im sorry but No one can tell me that goto is bad for visual.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, MBJ said:

Celestrons starsense is easy....3 minutes and ready to view all night....all objects in fov everytime.

I'd love to challenge it to align in my backyard with a view of only 30 degrees of sky left to right from 10 degrees elevation S to about 80 degrees N (90 degrees total altitude).  If it can adapt to limited sight lines, I'd be truly impressed with its alignment algorithms.

1 hour ago, MBJ said:

Im sorry but No one can tell me that goto is bad for visual.

It is if you are disinclined to observe just because setup is such a pain or your batteries are dead, and you never learned to star hop to targets.

1 hour ago, MBJ said:

Your issues with polar alignment still dont make goto bad for everyone else.

I never claimed it was.  I was merely providing a counter example.  Once aligned, they can be marvelous.  In particular, at star parties, they make giving sky tours much easier and quicker, especially under light polluted skies.

[RayD]

5 hours ago, Louis D said:

If it can adapt to limited sight lines, I'd be truly impressed with its alignment algorithms.

Think you'd be impressed then as it does just that 

[MBJ]

7 hours ago, Louis D said:

I'd love to challenge it to align in my backyard with a view of only 30 degrees of sky left to right from 10 degrees elevation S to about 80 degrees N (90 degrees total altitude).  If it can adapt to limited sight lines, I'd be truly impressed with its alignment algorithms.

It is if you are disinclined to observe just because setup is such a pain or your batteries are dead, and you never learned to star hop to targets.

I never claimed it was.  I was merely providing a counter example.  Once aligned, they can be marvelous.  In particular, at star parties, they make giving sky tours much easier and quicker, especially under light polluted skies.

You dont have to let it align itself.....i use manual alignment everytime....lets you chose where it points to take the images.

[Chris Murray]

your in the same position i was a few years ago, i had and still have an orion xt10, but wanted to find and track objects with a bit more accuracy and repeatability, i went to my local telescope shop with full intentions of returning with a shiny new goto 127. i was talked out of this and returned with a cg5gt eq mount instead,a little small for my tube but for visual its fine. i just had to buy some tube rings and mount my old scope to the new mount. its a bit fiddly to get going but worth it, the other benefit is you are then, by choice of mount, set for astrophotography,its a little more money than your budget but maybe second hand will cut it. this is just my experience but it inspired me to move on to imaging, since i had a dslr already, if you want to try new setups then yes you can go the az goto or you can get an eq goto and future proof the adventure, i hope this gives you another angle to look at things from

 

[Geoff Lister]

I am fortunate to have a Skyliner 250PX flex-tube Dob and a Skymax 127 Mak, both using Synscan GOTO. The Skymax is (very slightly) quicker to set up in my garden and I probably use it about 3 times as much as the Skyliner. I also liked the idea of Starsense, so a little while ago, I bought a Skyprodigy 70, when they were available for under £200 (thus going for the standard mount with cheapest OTA). The Skyprodigy mount has the same overall construction as the Skymax, but with a camera fixed on the Alt-axis shaft. The Skyprodigy range goes up to 6" (and £1300), with the OTA max size limited by a plastic cowl over the dovetail clamp. I cut back the cowl, and I now have the 5" Mak available on similar mounts, with Starsense or Synscan GOTO. Provided the cloud cover is not too severe, alignment for both is straight-forward. With dark skies, and a reasonable field of view above about 25 degrees altitude, the Starsense is quick and accurate. However, at dusk, before the sky has darkened fully, Synscan's "Brightest Star" alignment works best; as the bright stars are visible long before there are enough stars visible for Starsense to capture and plate-solve.

With the "2-star" or "Brightest Star" alignment it is worthwhile doing a bit of homework, using a planetarium program, to work out the names and locations of the brightest stars. I use the free "Stellarium" program on my PC and SkyPortal app. on a tablet. Stellarium has the nice feature that, if you advance time at dusk, it adds the names of the brightest stars as they become visible. By adjusting time and date, it is possible to produce a table of about 24 stars, visible from your back garden, at dusk, for the middle of each month of the year; and for each month, selecting 3, 4, or 5 of them, to give about 30 degrees altitude and about 90 degrees azimuth separation; and noting their rough direction (N, NW, W etc.). This is very useful, as at dusk, you cannot see enough stars to make out the various constellations. This also helps you to avoid selecting a Synscan-suggested second star, that may be bright, but is below roof or fence level. From my location, at 51.4 deg. N, Vega, Arcturus, and Altair are firm favourites.

I was so impressed with the Skymax, that I have the same setup at my holiday home in the south of France. The main tube and eyepieces went in hand luggage the rest in a medium suitcase.

Geoff

[Nyctimene]

Badweather,

On 30.10.2017 at 18:50, Badweather said:

I've got some serious limitations. Back included. Getting a car is not going to be easy.

So two things on my list: A car. A Skyliner 300P FlexTube Dobsonian to really enjoy those dark sites with

the Skyliner 300 P Flextube's rocker box weighs 34 kg, the OTA about 27 kg - not back friendly at all! I possess a vintage 13,1" Coulter Odyssey dobson with about the same total weight, and it's a bulky beast, that is seldom used (and I have fortunately no back issues). I'd save up for a modern lightweight travel scope, as e.g. the Teleskop Service 12" f/5 Traveldob with 20 kg total weight, the Sumerian Alkaid 12" f/5, with a total weight of just 16,5 kg, or the Hofheim Instruments 12" f/5 traveldob with only 12 kg. All are not cheap - but each of them would be a high quality lifetime instrument and getting used intensively ( and not sit in the closet or shed and collect dust, as my 13,1"  dob monster now).

Before you decide on buying, try to see the 12" Skyliner Flextube "in the flesh", and to handle it, to avoid disappointment.

Stephan

 

[Badweather]

2 hours ago, Nyctimene said:

Badweather,

the Skyliner 300 P Flextube's rocker box weighs 34 kg, the OTA about 27 kg - not back friendly at all! I possess a vintage 13,1" Coulter Odyssey dobson with about the same total weight, and it's a bulky beast, that is seldom used (and I have fortunately no back issues). I'd save up for a modern lightweight travel scope, as e.g. the Teleskop Service 12" f/5 Traveldob with 20 kg total weight, the Sumerian Alkaid 12" f/5, with a total weight of just 16,5 kg, or the Hofheim Instruments 12" f/5 traveldob with only 12 kg. All are not cheap - but each of them would be a high quality lifetime instrument and getting used intensively ( and not sit in the closet or shed and collect dust, as my 13,1"  dob monster now).

Before you decide on buying, try to see the 12" Skyliner Flextube "in the flesh", and to handle it, to avoid disappointment.

Stephan

 

Thanks Stephan,

I think this is certainly something to think about.

I like the notion of an extra light 12 inch telescope.

I could see paying more for that and paying only $1500 for the car or less even. I live in a college town, these kids practically give things like cars away when they leave since they have 2 weeks to sell in a buyers market.

I have heard of people finding nice telescopes in the trash here as well....

I doubt I'd find a traveldob though, people that buy something like that keep them for life.

I just found this searching for one of the traveldobs you mentioned. I googled Hofheim Instruments 12" f/5 traveldob and followed a link back to this forum:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/288485-what-is-the-lightest-type-of-telescope/

Where I found this link:

http://www.hubbleoptics.com/UP12.html

For just under $2000 for that scope with that very nice mirror? I can't say no to something like this.

I'll keep trying to find the other examples to compare but this Hubble Optics lightweight mirror design seems like the way to go.

Sounds like I made one of the better decisions regarding the weight to aperture though with my 8SE, i spent a fair amount of time researching that purchase. Had I found that Hubble Optics traveldob for $2000 i might have just gone for that outright.

[Nyctimene]

1 hour ago, Badweather said:

Thanks Stephan,

I think this is certainly something to think about.

I like the notion of an extra light 12 inch telescope.

I could see paying more for that and paying only $1500 for the car or less even. I live in a college town, these kids practically give things like cars away when they leave since they have 2 weeks to sell in a buyers market.

I have heard of people finding nice telescopes in the trash here as well....

I doubt I'd find a traveldob though, people that buy something like that keep them for life.

I just found this searching for one of the traveldobs you mentioned. I googled Hofheim Instruments 12" f/5 traveldob and followed a long back to this forum:

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/288485-what-is-the-lightest-type-of-telescope/

Where I found this link:

http://www.hubbleoptics.com/UP12.html

For just under $2000 for that scope with that very nice mirror? I can't say no to something like this.

I'll keep trying to find the other examples to compare but this Hubble Optics lightweight mirror design seems like the way to go.

Sounds like I made one of the better decisions regarding the weight to aperture though with my 8SE, i spent a fair amount of time researching that purchase. Had I found that Hubble Optics traveldob for $2000 i might have just gone for that outright.

Badweather,

the Hubble 12" is a thing of beauty, and seems to be well priced. I don't know anything about the optical and mechanical quality, but I'm sure, that you will find enough information on that, maybe in the CloudyNights reviews. Considering paying less for the car and more for the scope seems the right way in my eyes - cars come and go, lasting 10-15 years, but this scope would be a lifetime companion, so a good investment.

Just some more eye candy,and a similar design - a 14" f/4,7 with only 15 kg total, Carbon build, and waaaay too pricey, (for me, too), just to show you the state-of-the-art level here in Germany. Daniel Restemeyer, engineer and former ATM guru, builds an 18"  f/4,3 with just 23 kg total weight!  Enjoy the pictures (sorry, website mostly in German):

http://nauris.de/index.php/de/mechanik/mirrage#Kenndaten

(Of course, no affiliation with them, as usual)

Stephan

[Geoff Lister]

A Skymax 127 is easily portable over reasonable walking distances. An 8", to 12" Dob is walking portable for a few tens of metres.

The above annotated photo shows the Skymax in a backpack, but without any padding between the main elements. The tripod can be strapped to the ide of the bag, and, perhaps, a folding camping chair on the other side. Eyepieces, batteries, and other sundries would fit in a bum bag or coat with generous pockets. The OTA has a long dovetail plate, and you can see the markings for positioning the OTA in the mount's clamp, when using a normal eyepiece, bino-viewer or DSLR. For home use, I power the mount using a cheap 12V, 1.5 or 2A plug-top PSU, designed for flexible LED strips (under £5), with the 12V lead extended by about 2m of sturdy, white (shows up better to avoid trip-hazard), bell flex. When away from mains power, I use a pair of 6V 2600mAh battery packs, borrowed from my radio-controlled model sailing boats, with a "Y" lead to get 12V. The mount+handset takes about 160mA when tracking and up to 350mA when slewing at maximum rate.

On the mount, I have added a hook to hold the little (Skywatcher supplied) satchel holding the 2 battery packs, and the white rectangle is a clip to provide strain relief to the lead from the mains supply, and thus avoids pulling-out the power jack if the lead becomes tight as the mount turns. I have also made some 32mm holes in the tripod's bracing tray, to hold the eyepieces in size order.

The Mak design holds collimation very well, and I have not had to touch the collimation screws during several years use.

Update:- I have just weighed the above, 10.5kg, including backpack and tripod, together with 4 battery packs, and 32mm Plossl & 24-8 zoom EPs.

Geoff

[Louis D]

6 hours ago, Geoff Lister said:

When away from mains power, I use a pair of 6V 2600mAh battery packs, borrowed from my radio-controlled model sailing boats, with a "Y" lead to get 12V.

Wouldn't that just increase the available amperage but keep the voltage the same?  To double the voltage, you'd have to stack them in serial (with a jumper from + to - terminals between them).  The Y leads would seemingly keep them in parallel, assuming each Y lead is connected to two terminals of the same sign.

[Geoff Lister]

The "Y" lead connects the two 6V battery packs in series to get the 12V, as shown below.

 The extra connector lets me charge them as a 12V battery.

Geoff