Celestron Astro Wifi 90cm control is not working properly

[winniewsp]

This is my first scope. I am using SkyPortal apps on my ipad to control the scope. I have got a problem unable to stop the scope keep moving after I have driven to where I wanna to be. Please can anyone help what i can do to stop it moving? Cheers. Winnie 

[Chris]

Hi Winnie, if you can give us a list of steps you are performing when setting up the scope, it might help us spot or rule out any user errors? 

[winniewsp]

Hi Lockie, 

I switch on the apps, click on connect, then use up / down and left / right arrow keys to align the scope. The problem is the scope will not stop moving after i point to where I wanne to be ?

[Chris]

1 hour ago, winniewsp said:

Hi Lockie, 

I switch on the apps, click on connect, then use up / down and left / right arrow keys to align the scope. The problem is the scope will not stop moving after i point to where I wanne to be ?

I've not used this type of goto system but just to check, you've got a wifi connection? You've picked something like a two star align? selected a star, slewed to the star and centered it in the eyepiece? and pressed some kind of confirm button? Repeated these steps for the second star? 

Also. make sure your red dot finder is aligned with your telescope i.e the red dot or cross-hairs are centered on the star at the same time the telescope is centered on the star?

Other than the above do the instructions give any clues, have you checked out any Youtube videos on Wifi app controlled telescopes? 

[winniewsp]

I used to do three stars alignment. There is options for "connect and align" and "connect"

The "connect and align" is the tab for three stars alignment and connect is perhap reconnect ??? 

perhap I need to start with connect and align first then only use the "connect" if the line is drop or revisit one the same night ? 

[ronin]

This in simple terms reads that you tap a pointer or something to move (say) right, but that is no option for Stop.

So the scope is told to move in a direction but is not told to stop once it gets to the required position.

On a handset it is usually a case of Press and Hold, but not sure how this is reproduced on a tablet.

[winniewsp]

On 25/05/2017 at 14:13, ronin said:

This in simple terms reads that you tap a pointer or something to move (say) right, but that is no option for Stop.

So the scope is told to move in a direction but is not told to stop once it gets to the required position.

On a handset it is usually a case of Press and Hold, but not sure how this is reproduced on a tablet.

Hi Bright Giant, you are absolutely right, I am looking for a compactible hand held control. Do you know one ? 

On 25/05/2017 at 08:50, Lockie said:

I've not used this type of goto system but just to check, you've got a wifi connection? You've picked something like a two star align? selected a star, slewed to the star and centered it in the eyepiece? and pressed some kind of confirm button? Repeated these steps for the second star? 

Also. make sure your red dot finder is aligned with your telescope i.e the red dot or cross-hairs are centered on the star at the same time the telescope is centered on the star?

Other than the above do the instructions give any clues, have you checked out any Youtube videos on Wifi app controlled telescopes? 

 

On 25/05/2017 at 14:13, ronin said:

This in simple terms reads that you tap a pointer or something to move (say) right, but that is no option for Stop.

So the scope is told to move in a direction but is not told to stop once it gets to the required position.

On a handset it is usually a case of Press and Hold, but not sure how this is reproduced on a tablet.

 

[Chris]

Ah I see, sorry, I thought/assumed the scope was not stopping when it slewed to objects after an alignment procedure, but it appears to b the case that you can't do the alignment procedure because the scope isn't stopping when you're choosing your alignment stars, right? 

The above vid shows that the scope should stop once you release your finger, so it definitely seems to be a device or software issue. Can you try Skyportal with your phone or another tablet? 

Watch the video from about 6 minutes in for the relevant part  

 

[winniewsp]

Hi Lockie

Many thanks for the informative video clip x

I am using SkyPortal, thats the problem.  

I have download SkiSafari Plus somehow unable to connect to the scope.

I think hand held control could be a solution as it has a hold button. 

 

Hi Bright Giant, you are absolutely right, I am looking for a compactible hand held control. Do you know one ? 

On 25/05/2017 at 08:50, Lockie said:

I've not used this type of goto system but just to check, you've got a wifi connection? You've picked something like a two star align? selected a star, slewed to the star and centered it in the eyepiece? and pressed some kind of confirm button? Repeated these steps for the second star? 

Also. make sure your red dot finder is aligned with your telescope i.e the red dot or cross-hairs are centered on the star at the same time the telescope is centered on the star?

Other than the above do the instructions give any clues, have you checked out any Youtube videos on Wifi app controlled telescopes? 

 

On 25/05/2017 at 14:13, ronin said:

This in simple terms reads that you tap a pointer or something to move (say) right, but that is no option for Stop.

So the scope is told to move in a direction but is not told to stop once it gets to the required position.

On a handset it is usually a case of Press and Hold, but not sure how this is reproduced on a tablet.

 

[Chris]

What a lovely view  

[Geoff Lister]

Hello winniewsp,

I share your pain. The use of tablets and mobile phones to control "things" is the modern way, however, in my opinion, controlling a telescope is not one of those "things".

I have a Celestron Cosmos 90 WiFi, essentially the same as the Astro, but with a different paint job on the telescope. I also use SkyPortal, running on a Samsung 8" tablet to (try to) control the mount.

I also have a Skywatcher Skymax 127 (full GOTO with wired handset), and a Celestron Skyprodigy 70 (uses a built-in camera [red tube to rear in photo below] to do automatic star alignment, then, again, wired handset for full GOTO). These are essentially the same basic mount, with interchangeable tripods; but with different plastics and user interface.

 

I come from an aerospace electronics background, and have used computers since 1971, some of which I built myself, and, during my career, have worked with a large range of computing devices, and written programs in many different programming languages.

The SkyPortal App. is fine when you hold up the tablet, turn on the "compass" mode, and point it at a star or planet. It is, however, very frustrating to use to control a telescope. To control the mount, you have to persuade the tablet to ignore your home's wifi hub, that it connects to most of the time, and lock into the mount's built-in one. It seems that, if there is any break in the data link, the tablet will revert to the home hub, in a blink of an eye, and the first thing you notice is a big error message in the middle of the tablet's screen as soon as you push any of the "virtual" buttons.

If the link drops whilst the mount is slewing, it will continue to slew, and has the capability to do damage long before you can re-establish the link and command it to "STOP". I decided to add a "kill" push-button switch, on the mount itself. The switch is normally closed, (power flows) but when pushed, it opens the circuit, and the mount resets when the button is released. I would not recommend this to a novice, but you will need to keep your power tank's ON/OFF switch within easy reach.

To centre an object in the eyepiece, you need to use left, right, up & down buttons; whilst looking through the eyepiece. With a handset, you have 4 decent-size buttons in about the middle of the front face. the "up" button is at the top etc., and the buttons can be "felt" with the fingertips (fingerless gloves in Winter). With the tablet, these controls are right at the edge of the screen; left/right on one side, up/down on the other - certainly not intuitive for me. I would defy anyone to use them properly whilst still looking through the eyepiece; there is no tactile feedback to let you know when your finger is on the button.

"Connect" either gives you a failed communication message, or adds a ringed target sight on the display. Unless you are very lucky, it is nowhere near where the scope is pointing. Any use of the direction buttons moves the rings and the scope, by the same amount, so you will never get the two pointing in the same direction at the same time. The only way to get close, is to lift up the tripod and turn the whole assembly until the sight rings and scope have the same azimuth. Altitude is aligned by forcing the altitude clutch to release and moving the tube to the "desired" altitude. If you don't do this, you may as well go indoors, use Stellarium, and forget visual astronomy.

To start alignment, you point the tablet at the desired bright star, touch the star, (best on the screen, as the real thing is too far away, and hot), (usually) many times until there is a cross over the star. Press "goto" and the mount will slew and the tablet display will move the rings exactly over to the cross. If in the initial setup, you have aligned the scope with the rings, the scope will point, almost exactly, at the target star. You then use the direction "buttons" to get the star in the centre of the eyepiece; the display (unhelpfully) moves the rings off the target on the display. You press the "align" button; if you are very lucky, the software will accept the alignment, but in most cases, it will give you an error message, telling you that you are an idiot, and pointing the scope at the wrong star. I did this last night with Jupiter, and after 4 attempts, was close to doing some serious mount re-alignment with a 4-pound lump hammer. Cloud cover, fortunately, prevented any further loss of temper.

To sum up, I spent over an hour failing to do an alignment that takes under 5 minutes with the Skymax and Skyprodigy. The whole tablet/mount/SkyPortal interface needs a re-think to be useful in the back garden.

Celestron's user manuals, for the Astro and Cosmos, tell you very little, in 5 different languages, and are useless in helping to resolve this problem. Why have a little, recessed, slider switch if it must always be over to the left? I'm sure Celestron's technical authors could do a much better job.

Frustrated of North Somerset, AKA

Geoff

 

[winniewsp]

Thank you so much Geoff, 

What you described is exactly what I am experiencing ! Not sure how to go forward from here. I was trying to look for a hand held contol. I emailed one of the the online shopping channel. I have been told there is no compactible control. 

What should i do ?

1) carry on looking for a hand held control ? 

2) Replace the mount like one of those you have ? 

3) sell or forget about this scope and get another scope ? 

Winnie x

[Chris]

3 hours ago, Geoff Lister said:

Hello winniewsp,

I share your pain. The use of tablets and mobile phones to control "things" is the modern way, however, in my opinion, controlling a telescope is not one of those "things".

I have a Celestron Cosmos 90 WiFi, essentially the same as the Astro, but with a different paint job on the telescope. I also use SkyPortal, running on a Samsung 8" tablet to (try to) control the mount.

I also have a Skywatcher Skymax 127 (full GOTO with wired handset), and a Celestron Skyprodigy 70 (uses a built-in camera [red tube to rear in photo below] to do automatic star alignment, then, again, wired handset for full GOTO). These are essentially the same basic mount, with interchangeable tripods; but with different plastics and user interface.

 

I come from an aerospace electronics background, and have used computers since 1971, some of which I built myself, and, during my career, have worked with a large range of computing devices, and written programs in many different programming languages.

The SkyPortal App. is fine when you hold up the tablet, turn on the "compass" mode, and point it at a star or planet. It is, however, very frustrating to use to control a telescope. To control the mount, you have to persuade the tablet to ignore your home's wifi hub, that it connects to most of the time, and lock into the mount's built-in one. It seems that, if there is any break in the data link, the tablet will revert to the home hub, in a blink of an eye, and the first thing you notice is a big error message in the middle of the tablet's screen as soon as you push any of the "virtual" buttons.

If the link drops whilst the mount is slewing, it will continue to slew, and has the capability to do damage long before you can re-establish the link and command it to "STOP". I decided to add a "kill" push-button switch, on the mount itself. The switch is normally closed, (power flows) but when pushed, it opens the circuit, and the mount resets when the button is released. I would not recommend this to a novice, but you will need to keep your power tank's ON/OFF switch within easy reach.

To centre an object in the eyepiece, you need to use left, right, up & down buttons; whilst looking through the eyepiece. With a handset, you have 4 decent-size buttons in about the middle of the front face. the "up" button is at the top etc., and the buttons can be "felt" with the fingertips (fingerless gloves in Winter). With the tablet, these controls are right at the edge of the screen; left/right on one side, up/down on the other - certainly not intuitive for me. I would defy anyone to use them properly whilst still looking through the eyepiece; there is no tactile feedback to let you know when your finger is on the button.

"Connect" either gives you a failed communication message, or adds a ringed target sight on the display. Unless you are very lucky, it is nowhere near where the scope is pointing. Any use of the direction buttons moves the rings and the scope, by the same amount, so you will never get the two pointing in the same direction at the same time. The only way to get close, is to lift up the tripod and turn the whole assembly until the sight rings and scope have the same azimuth. Altitude is aligned by forcing the altitude clutch to release and moving the tube to the "desired" altitude. If you don't do this, you may as well go indoors, use Stellarium, and forget visual astronomy.

To start alignment, you point the tablet at the desired bright star, touch the star, (best on the screen, as the real thing is too far away, and hot), (usually) many times until there is a cross over the star. Press "goto" and the mount will slew and the tablet display will move the rings exactly over to the cross. If in the initial setup, you have aligned the scope with the rings, the scope will point, almost exactly, at the target star. You then use the direction "buttons" to get the star in the centre of the eyepiece; the display (unhelpfully) moves the rings off the target on the display. You press the "align" button; if you are very lucky, the software will accept the alignment, but in most cases, it will give you an error message, telling you that you are an idiot, and pointing the scope at the wrong star. I did this last night with Jupiter, and after 4 attempts, was close to doing some serious mount re-alignment with a 4-pound lump hammer. Cloud cover, fortunately, prevented any further loss of temper.

To sum up, I spent over an hour failing to do an alignment that takes under 5 minutes with the Skymax and Skyprodigy. The whole tablet/mount/SkyPortal interface needs a re-think to be useful in the back garden.

Celestron's user manuals, for the Astro and Cosmos, tell you very little, in 5 different languages, and are useless in helping to resolve this problem. Why have a little, recessed, slider switch if it must always be over to the left? I'm sure Celestron's technical authors could do a much better job.

Frustrated of North Somerset, AKA

Geoff

 

That's terrible Geoff, I remember waiting with interest for the Astro Fi scope range to come out, and was intending to buy one until I saw how much they had hiked the price from the Cosmos 90mm (I think the cosmos was 269 and the Astro Fi was 389 at launch) so decided against it. You would think any niggles would have been resolved, but by the sounds of your and Winnie's experience I think not  

You don't see many folk with all three of these mounts! which is your favorite? (obviously not the Cosmo/Astro Fi mount).

[Geoff Lister]

I like the Skymax because the 127mm MCT is a good size for easy setup when the clouds clear, and because it uses the same Synscan handset as I have on my 250PX Flextube Dobsonian. The 2-star/brightest star (currently Jupiter+Arcturus+Regulus) alignment is easy. The Synscan handset does not have a real-time clock, it remembers the location and date-last-used, but always sets the time, at power-on, to 8pm.

I also have the same Skymax at my holiday home in the south of France (transported there with OTA in hand luggage, tripod & mount in suitcase). The local red wine cools at about the same rate as the OTA, and adds that extra edge to an evening's observing.

 

.

 

 

I bought the Skyprodigy 70, because I like the idea of automating the less-interesting preamble to getting good tracking, and because the 70 was available, new, for under £200 delivered. The larger versions are much more expensive. Celestron have used the standard mount, but used a plastic cowl around the dovetail clamp, limiting the diameter of OTA that can be fitted, to about 70mm. Half an hour with Allen key, tin-snips, file and sandpaper, and the slightly reduced cowl now takes the larger 127mm MCT with no problems. The handset does incorporate a real-time clock, and so you can switch off, have tea, and restart at the Starsense alignment stage (it works better if you remember to take the cap off the camera, that you put back on when you went for tea). The Starsense interface has some software options for different levels of light pollution, but does require a reasonable clear ark of sky. My patio gives good visibility above about 10 degrees altitude from SE to W, and, with the house roof obscuring W to NE, below about 50 degrees, I can get Polaris in a gap between my roof and the neighbour's.

I did have a couple of Skyprodigy alignment failures when I did a Skymax/Skyprodigy comparison test at dusk. There were a few bright stars just visible for Skymax alignment, but it was not dark enough for the Starsense camera to spot enough dimmer stars to work out where it was looking. No problem about 20 minutes later, as it got darker.

I did not mention, earlier, that last night, I had set everything up, with the tablet linked to the mount. I started SkyPortal, and the first thing it requested was that I downloaded over 200MB of update to the app, with options of "Download" or "Cancel". As I was off grid, I thought I would download later so chose "Cancel". What I did not expect was that the "Cancel" option led directly to "Exit". So no download = no SkyPortal activity. So, not wishing to ruin my night vision, I disconnected from the mount, reconnected to the home WIFI and tried again with "Download". The loading bar moves very slowly, towards 100%, when you are trying to download over 200MB with reduced link speed in the garden. I feel the SkyPortal development team needs a stiff talking-to.

I believe, but others may be able to confirm or refute, that the Astro/Cosmos mount will work with a "Nexstar" handset, but there seem to be various versions of the handset, so the chances are that only certain versions are compatible. There is a brief mention of an "optional hand control" in the Cosmos manual, but the link, stated in the manual, to Celestron's web site does not work - what a surprise !!!

Geoff

[vance1977]

I have the same problem I have the astrofi 130 Newtonian and I only bought it as I thought it was awesome controlling it with the iPad, how wrong I was I wish I spent £200 less and got a hand controlled sky watcher.

I also have the same problem of buttons sticking it must be a software problem as it happens on the sky portal app and the sky safari 5 pro app.

I've only had the scope 2 months and I want to sell it and get a more expensive setup.

[Geoff Lister]

Whatever the Celestron application developers do to improve SkyPortal and Sky Safari, there will always be a fundamental problem. To align the scope, you need to have your eye looking through the eyepiece. Without "real" directional control buttons, it is virtually impossible to place your finger on the correct point on a screen, without removing your eye from the eyepiece.

Thinking outside the box, it may be possible to use a Bluetooth game-pad controller to provide the "real" buttons. If you have one to try, it may be worth giving it a go.

It may be worth contacting FLO for advice on a compatible Nexstar handset; it should be cheaper than buying a completely new setup.

Geoff

[Chris]

On 5/28/2017 at 15:47, Geoff Lister said:

I like the Skymax because the 127mm MCT is a good size for easy setup when the clouds clear, and because it uses the same Synscan handset as I have on my 250PX Flextube Dobsonian. The 2-star/brightest star (currently Jupiter+Arcturus+Regulus) alignment is easy. The Synscan handset does not have a real-time clock, it remembers the location and date-last-used, but always sets the time, at power-on, to 8pm.

I also have the same Skymax at my holiday home in the south of France (transported there with OTA in hand luggage, tripod & mount in suitcase). The local red wine cools at about the same rate as the OTA, and adds that extra edge to an evening's observing.

 

.

 

 

I bought the Skyprodigy 70, because I like the idea of automating the less-interesting preamble to getting good tracking, and because the 70 was available, new, for under £200 delivered. The larger versions are much more expensive. Celestron have used the standard mount, but used a plastic cowl around the dovetail clamp, limiting the diameter of OTA that can be fitted, to about 70mm. Half an hour with Allen key, tin-snips, file and sandpaper, and the slightly reduced cowl now takes the larger 127mm MCT with no problems. The handset does incorporate a real-time clock, and so you can switch off, have tea, and restart at the Starsense alignment stage (it works better if you remember to take the cap off the camera, that you put back on when you went for tea). The Starsense interface has some software options for different levels of light pollution, but does require a reasonable clear ark of sky. My patio gives good visibility above about 10 degrees altitude from SE to W, and, with the house roof obscuring W to NE, below about 50 degrees, I can get Polaris in a gap between my roof and the neighbour's.

I did have a couple of Skyprodigy alignment failures when I did a Skymax/Skyprodigy comparison test at dusk. There were a few bright stars just visible for Skymax alignment, but it was not dark enough for the Starsense camera to spot enough dimmer stars to work out where it was looking. No problem about 20 minutes later, as it got darker.

I did not mention, earlier, that last night, I had set everything up, with the tablet linked to the mount. I started SkyPortal, and the first thing it requested was that I downloaded over 200MB of update to the app, with options of "Download" or "Cancel". As I was off grid, I thought I would download later so chose "Cancel". What I did not expect was that the "Cancel" option led directly to "Exit". So no download = no SkyPortal activity. So, not wishing to ruin my night vision, I disconnected from the mount, reconnected to the home WIFI and tried again with "Download". The loading bar moves very slowly, towards 100%, when you are trying to download over 200MB with reduced link speed in the garden. I feel the SkyPortal development team needs a stiff talking-to.

I believe, but others may be able to confirm or refute, that the Astro/Cosmos mount will work with a "Nexstar" handset, but there seem to be various versions of the handset, so the chances are that only certain versions are compatible. There is a brief mention of an "optional hand control" in the Cosmos manual, but the link, stated in the manual, to Celestron's web site does not work - what a surprise !!!

Geoff

Hi Geoff, thanks for your thoughts  I slightly loaded question as I'd spotted the Skyprodigy 70 for £199 and wondered if it would be a good match for my Vixen 80 f/11.  The Synscan has stood the test of time, I've never had issues with any off my Synscan mounts, definitely a safe bet for people looking for an entry level goto mount  

[Geoff Lister]

I agree; Synscan works well for me too. The Skyprodigy's handset and GOTO software operation are similar to Synscan's, but some of the buttons (slew-rate selection in particular) are in a different place on the handset. The Skyprodigy handset includes a real-time clock, so it does not revert to 8pm at every power cycle.

I would guess, given the vast difference in the price of the Skyprodigy variants, that Celestron are selling the 70, cheaply, to get rid of old stock, and hope to make their money on the others. By using a dedicated, extended, cowl on the 70's dovetail clamp, they are trying to dissuade users from using larger, and better, OTAs.

A couple of night's testing in its original state, to check that it worked properly, and then out came the tin snips, and on went the 127 MCT. A vast improvement, including the ability to view closer to the zenith.

Geoff

[TimB]

I can't believe how good this advice is. I so nearly went for the Astrofi setup because the product info and videos make it look like the answer to any every need of a rookie like me.

Thank you

Tim

[Chris]

This is the first time I've heard issues with the Astro Fi, but certainly the above two users aren't happy with it. I wonder how many returns this product has had? And I also wonder if Celestron are going to address these issues at some point?