Jupiter SW Pro 150

[Aussie Dave]

Conditions over the last couple of nights have been good compared to the norm but it's time to retire the Logitech C100 webcam. There's no way I can capture and bring out the finer detail. It's been a great learning curve with it and I'm now wanting much better results.

I recorded many videos at 2 minutes each over 2 nights, stacked around 400 good frames in each in AS!2. RS6 for RGB align, histogram and slight wavelets adjustments then finished in PDN.

[happy-kat]

Showing a lot of banding of Jupiter's. Think your Logitech has done well, where next?

[Aussie Dave]

I'm on the look out for a reasonably priced ZWO ASI224MC happy-kat and go from there.

[Astromaster130]

Hey, have you tried the logitech quickcam fusion? Ive just started using it after buying it for £7. Its showing great potential after my first session with it! I also read with certain software it can do 10 second exposures,  I have a post from a yesterday on here if you want to have a look? Im looking forward to seeing what it can do with a 3x barlow?

[Aussie Dave]

Hi Astromaster. I did read your post last night and you're getting more fainter detail than me. Stick with it and you'll get a little more out of that webcam, I'm sure of that. Conditions play the biggest part in imaging.

Using a Barlow is very tricky with a webcam. You'll need good tracking, refocus and adjust your cams settings again as they will be out when you add the Barlow. If you can buy or borrow an IR Cut filter, that really does help with imaging. You'll notice a difference with just that filter in your final results on those few good nights for imaging.

I've looked in to longer exposure software and also software to capture higher frame rates past 30fps for webcams. Few worked, most didn't with my Logitech cam. I hope you have better luck than me. I gave it a good crack and more than happy with what I got from mine but the journey has ended with webcams.

 

Dave

ps all my imaging has been done with manual tracking.

[Pete Presland]

The ZWO ASI224MC certainly producing some fine images.

[Astromaster130]

6 hours ago, Aussie Dave said:

Hi Astromaster. I did read your post last night and you're getting more fainter detail than me. Stick with it and you'll get a little more out of that webcam, I'm sure of that. Conditions play the biggest part in imaging.

Using a Barlow is very tricky with a webcam. You'll need good tracking, refocus and adjust your cams settings again as they will be out when you add the Barlow. If you can buy or borrow an IR Cut filter, that really does help with imaging. You'll notice a difference with just that filter in your final results on those few good nights for imaging.

I've looked in to longer exposure software and also software to capture higher frame rates past 30fps for webcams. Few worked, most didn't with my Logitech cam. I hope you have better luck than me. I gave it a good crack and more than happy with what I got from mine but the journey has ended with webcams.

 

Dave

ps all my imaging has been done with manual tracking.

Hey dave, well thats good results with manual tracking. I started out manual tracking last year and got some good results with the spc900nc and good moon shots with a £2 webcam! This is my first year with the ra motor as I have started imaging deep sky too so i still have yet to produce an image if jupiter that I am happy with. I have been looking at the zwo cameras and will eventually buy one, but I want to see what I can get out of this camera first! ?

[Aussie Dave]

5 hours ago, bunnygod1 said:

The ZWO ASI224MC certainly producing some fine images.

Yep it sure does Pete. Curious to know if I can get similar results to other members here. It may take some months for me to snap one up on the used market though. I did see one sell a while back on Astro Buy and Sell Australia for $300AU, it sold very quick and I missed out.

 

47 minutes ago, Astromaster130 said:

Hey dave, well thats good results with manual tracking. I started out manual tracking last year and got some good results with the spc900nc and good moon shots with a £2 webcam! This is my first year with the ra motor as I have started imaging deep sky too so i still have yet to produce an image if jupiter that I am happy with. I have been looking at the zwo cameras and will eventually buy one, but I want to see what I can get out of this camera first! ?

The 1 motor drive will help but you still need to adjust tracking both dec and ra to keep the planetary image on the small webcam sensor. I just got an older C8 operational with a 1 motor drive and have tested it a few times with the Logitech cam but results are not as good as the SkyWatcher Pro 6".

I would stick with your Logitech too astromaster just to see what it can achieve. You just have to be patient and wait for those few good imaging nights over the coming months. Jupiter is your best bet for now with it high in the sky. Just keep at it when conditions are good. It's taken me many months to work out when to image and when not to. I'm only just staring to realizing this thanks to the good advice from members here.

I'll still continue to use my Xbox 360 cam for lunar as it produces better high mag images than my DSLR. I actually prefer webcams to my DSLR. The DSLR does have it's place in other AP work which I can't get with the cams I have atm.

[Aussie Dave]

Astromaster the image below is my best result from my Logitech webcam. It's over processed but I wanted to see the fainter gas clouds along the 2 major bands and distinguish some features in the top and bottom gas clouds of Jupiter. The moon has been enhanced separately which I didn't know I had captured at the time, it was dim.

I've only had one very good night like this with conditions and have yet to see it as good as this since. One night in about 2-3 months I think.

If you can do better than this with your newer Logitech webcam then you've done very well. It's just a matter of waiting for that one really good night and being there to capture it all.

[Astromaster130]

That looks great dave, you can see the clouds starting to come through. Iam still trying to figure out how to capture the moons with the planet. What settings have you been using with your webcam? I have started to get the clouds but not much atm. Iam hopefully getting out tonight and trying an extension tube with a 2x barlow to see what it does! The only images I have with this cam is the ones that I have posted on here, I shoot about 2000 frames and stack 10%?

[Astromaster130]

8 hours ago, Aussie Dave said:

Yep it sure does Pete. Curious to know if I can get similar results to other members here. It may take some months for me to snap one up on the used market though. I did see one sell a while back on Astro Buy and Sell Australia for $300AU, it sold very quick and I missed out.

 

The 1 motor drive will help but you still need to adjust tracking both dec and ra to keep the planetary image on the small webcam sensor. I just got an older C8 operational with a 1 motor drive and have tested it a few times with the Logitech cam but results are not as good as the SkyWatcher Pro 6".

I would stick with your Logitech too astromaster just to see what it can achieve. You just have to be patient and wait for those few good imaging nights over the coming months. Jupiter is your best bet for now with it high in the sky. Just keep at it when conditions are good. It's taken me many months to work out when to image and when not to. I'm only just staring to realizing this thanks to the good advice from members here.

I'll still continue to use my Xbox 360 cam for lunar as it produces better high mag images than my DSLR. I actually prefer webcams to my DSLR. The DSLR does have it's place in other AP work which I can't get with the cams I have atm.

I use a £3 webcam for all my moon shots which works very well considering what it is meant to be for! A few samples below. I did look into modding the xbox camera but never got round to it. I use my dslr for deep sky which is a nice change now and then?

[happy-kat]

wow that is a mosaic of dedication

[Aussie Dave]

4 hours ago, happy-kat said:

wow that is a mosaic of dedication

Agreed, that's a mega amount of frames by the look of it.

5 hours ago, Astromaster130 said:

I use a £3 webcam for all my moon shots which works very well considering what it is meant to be for! A few samples below. I did look into modding the xbox camera but never got round to it. I use my dslr for deep sky which is a nice change now and then?

Some great work there astromaster.

I haven't been able to capture Jupiter and moons together. It's either detail in Jupiter and no moons, or overexpose to bring out the moons and no detail in Jupiter. I'm not sure how the more experienced imagers here do it, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they take 2 separate videos, one for detail in Jupiter and another for the moons and then combine the 2 final processed results. This may only be an issue with the cheaper webcams.

The capture program I use is AMCap but cam settings are still used and adjusted from the Logitech Webcam Software /driver (ver 2.51, Build 13.51.828). Each time I use my Logitech it seems to be out slightly and I need to re-adjust the settings, each night is different. It's very difficult some nights to get those settings spot on and you won't notice it until you've processed your video. Some nights even though it may look ok while taking the video have resulted in a poor final image.

The Xbox 360 cam is quite good for lunar but no good for Jupiter as I can't resolve any detail in the planet since taking out the IR filter. It may be better for dimmer targets or scopes, I'm thinking about putting the filter back in just for Jupiter. In all the webpages I've read online it states video resolution for it as 640x480 but somehow I'm record up to 1280x960 although frame rate does drop drastically at that resolution. I'm still testing the Xbox cam in between other projects.

I also have the PS2 silver cam and did a quick test with it a few weeks back but I didn't like the overall clarity and sharpness from the sensor so I didn't go ahead with the PS2 cam. It looked quite blocky at 640x480.

Astromaster I'm far from an expert but you will know when you have good conditions for imaging in your eyepiece, you will notice the upper most and lower most gas clouds in the planet. If you see the edge of these then start imaging, if you're lucky enough you will start to see detail in and along the edge of the central bands. If you only see 2 long smeared central gas bands and nothing else then it's no good for imaging. All I can say is practice with your capture settings, focusing and processing until you get that good imaging night. I also go outside every hour and look at the surrounding stars just by eye. If they're twinkling then I don't bother. If the stars about 20 degrees below Jupiter are stable, I'll get my gear out to have a look. I'm still waiting for that one excellent night in conditions which may only be once or twice a year apparently.

[Astromaster130]

Thanks for the info dave, I always just go out and image without checking what the stars are like etc. so i will remember that for now on?

i tried the cheap cam on jupiter but by the sounds of it i had much the same experience as you, no detail and it could not handle colour properly. This is why I now use it just for the moon. That mosaic is only 1 shot per pane taken from a video where I move around the whole moon in just a 2 minute video, no stacking was involved? I am looking in to how to capture jupiter with moons but I think you're right about the two separate exposures. I got 10 videos from last night to process later testing different frame rates and exposure etc so I will get back to you. Thanks for your help buddy?

[Aussie Dave]

No worries Astromaster. I hope you get better conditions there and look forward to seeing some of your results from your Logitech webcam. I still go out and image thinking that conditions are good when in fact they are poor, a prime example is my latest thread here lol

Good luck Astromaster!

[mikeskor]

I can highly recommend the 224MC but I've noticed the really good planetary images come from people using the C14 telescope. But that's quite expensive.

[Aussie Dave]

That's true Mike but Astroavani has been posting a few threads with the C8 and 3x extender with very nice results which is the path I'll be taking. That's the plan for now anyway

I'm still editing this photo and have lost count on how many times. Sorry but it's all I've got to work with.

[Astromaster130]

That looks better dave! What is your processing technique? If you don't  mind me asking??

[Aussie Dave]

Astromaster I couldn't really tell you the exact processing in your photo/image editor but this is how I've done this Jupiter with the software I use. Some program suggestions and some tips were from the good members here...

- AutoStakkert!2 to stack the best frames. (started using Drizzle 1.5x to enlarge the final image 1.5x but I'm unsure on how Drizzle works, could be similar to interpolation)

- Registax 6 for slight Wavelets adjustment, adjust Histogram, RGB Align.

- Photo/image editor to Sharpen, Curves for Luminosity and RGB, adjust overall colour and individual RGB in colour Levels, Brightness, Contrast, Lightness, Saturation. Lasso sections of ringing on the inside edge of Jupiter (ringing (onion skins) from wavelets and sharpening, overprocessing) to blur and blend the more noticeable ringing out, manually paint out the outside ring beyond the edge of Jupiter. Enhance the Great Red Spot with Brightness and some Saturation and enhance the small moon with Brightness.

I occasionally use preset colour filters in Pixlr-o-matic app (only 2 or 3 useful filters in it if your overall colour is bad) as it can instantly obtain a more natural looking Jupiter, I downloaded the extra set of filters too. Also one of the settings I have used now and then in PhotoSketcher app which is in the Drawing Style tab - Vivify Photo (edge threshold, edge intensity) which seems to help with edge ringing from over processing but I think you lose some photo sharpness and some of the outer edge of Jupiter. An example below.

The next image below is just a stacked image from the video in AS!2 before it goes to RegiStax, about 320/15% good frames to show before and after results. The video was 1 minute 30 seconds but I've just recently started recording at 2 minutes. From what I had to work with to the image above was a lot of tweaks and adjustments. It's far from perfect. colours are still not correct but good enough for me for where I am with beginner AP experience. As you can see my red channel is way out.

Next edit I was thinking to Lasso each gas band separately and adjust to truer colours, enhancing, but is it worth all this effort.

 

[Astromaster130]

cheers for the info Dave I will have a little play tomorrow to see if your technique works for mine. I get the feeling that I am not using the right exposure at the moment and I am worried it is that, that is washing out the detail. I did seem to get some better results shooting 4 x 15 second videos at 30fps after joining them together in pipp, but tbh I have noticed the better Jupiter I have has come from 7.5fps. I tried a sky glow filter the other night too but it seems to have made the image grainy looking. hopefully get out tomorrow and have another try. I managed to get this out of my cheap webcam that has a big sensor 

[Aussie Dave]

I'm no expert at this Astromaster and someone can correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like a bit much adjustment in wavelets in Registax, that's what gives the ringing (onion skins) and with sharpening it only enhances the ringing. I've found that less wavelets adjustment is better for me and then I can sharpen a little more later in my image editor. There is a setting in Registax called Denoise/De-ringing, test by just using the De-ringing check box only and the Bright-side and/or Dark-side check boxes and their level sliders... however... I have found that using this setting will get rid of some ringing, but it will affect your overall detail as well. If your image editor has a edge threshold, edge intensity setting or similar then your better off using that. Mine doesn't that's why I had to use a separate program.

It's a balancing act with settings really. What you gain in one, you will lose in another with some of the settings and adjustments.

I've found when recording video to be slightly underexposed rather than slightly overexposed in live view image or you'll start to get a washed out center area of Jupiter and after processing through AS!2 it will look like a bright white reflective surface area with no detail around it. A little noise seems to be ok for me. The general rule with a lot of astronomy and AP is - less is best.

Getting those webcam settings right to begin with is a real challenge in itself. I managed to get some detail in Jupiter with the Xbox 360 cam last night by adding a 2x Barlow which also doubles the focal ratio to f/24 in the SW Pro 150. I spent over 30 minutes trying to get the cams settings looking correct, in the end I gave up and just started recording. Most of the settings are all the way to the left or close to it on the settings sliders. Long story short... average conditions + poor cam settings = poopy data.