William Optics Bino Viewers?

[Mak the Night]

3 hours ago, Stu said:

No mention of clear aperture on RVO site, but Harrison Telescope details say 18mm which is a fair bit less so fov would be restricted. The 23mm did appeal for the TS BVs, same as the MaxBrights I think?

I never know whether to trust the specifications given for anything. I'm pretty sure that all these bino's come from the same factory, although there may be varying production lines. I don't know when the new Maxbrights are being made available, but it's a possibility the TS Optics bino's are very similar to the Maxbrights. I was thinking of getting some of the new Maxbrights when they come out, but those TS Optics bino's are probably very similar.

I don't think there's much difference between any of them to be honest.

[Astral Enigma]

On 3/6/2016 at 18:04, Stu said:

I recently bought a pair of TS binoviewers which supposedly have 23mm prism clear aperture. Not badly priced either because you are just paying for the BV, not other accessories

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p1855_TS-Astro-Binokularansatz-fuer-Teleskope-mit-Ringklemmung.html

 

How are the TS ones, please? There seem to be a lot of people saying the TS, WO, Baader etc are essentially all the same optics with perhaps a few differences in other areas. At the moment I think my choice is between:

- TS - have the advantage of compression rings rather than thumbscrews I believe and a nice little case (but only takes the BVs)

- WO - come with a pair of 20mm eyepieces which many people have said are rather impressive for something bundled and are designed for compatibility I'd guess?

- Baader Maxvision - discontinued but there are places still selling them but not sure there is any advantage

- Celestron - can't see any specific advantage except that they'll be going on my two Celestron SCTs so slight possibility of a design that maximises compatibility?

In practice I think I'm torn between the first two, especially if i can get a pair of WO WA 20mm EPs for the TS BVs, which I might be able to....

[Stu]

This thread implies that the prisms and coatings are the same in all of them. It's all quite misleading I feel, they should quote the spec that actually has an impact on the field of view or brightness.

http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/419841-mark-v-willaim-optics-and-ts-binoviewers/

I tried mine out for the first time last night. In general I was pleased with them. Compared with others I have used, they were very simple to use, no messing about aligning eyepieces to get collimation. The two channels merged into one quite easily. There is separate focus adjustment in each side too which is handy. I still need to tweak this a little more though I think.

The biggest problem I had with them, and I think it is me/my eyes rather than the binoviewers fault, is that I just could not see as much detail as just single eye. With the BVs I had no problems with floaters and Jupiter appeared a richer colour and quite pleasing, but for ultimate detail I switched back to cyclops view. I know I'm unusual in that regard though, many people find binoviewers far better for planetary and lunar detail. I was using a pair of Zeiss Orthoscopics in the BVs and a Leica Zoom for single eye viewing so there should not be too much difference in quality.

These are my most successful attempt to date though (I've had three previous pairs), and I think I will persevere with them to see if I can get more out of them.

[Astral Enigma]

6 minutes ago, Stu said:

I tried mine out for the first time last night. In general I was pleased with them. Compared with others I have used, they were very simple to use, no messing about aligning eyepieces to get collimation. The two channels merged into one quite easily. There is separate focus adjustment in each side too which is handy. I still need to tweak this a little more though I think.

These are my most successful attempt to date though (I've had three previous pairs), and I think I will persevere with them to see if I can get more out of them.

Hi - just to be clear - was this the Williams Optics ones you tried last night and which were the other two they were better than? Thanks!

[Stu]

Hi,

No, I've just bought the TS ones I linked to earlier. I found these easier to setup as they have self centering eyepiece holders so the alignment was trivial. With both the others I found it more complex and had to fiddle around adjusting them to get them collimated. I also had a pair of Denkmeiers which had self centering eyepiece holders too, they were excellent but expensive!

[Astral Enigma]

19 hours ago, Stu said:

Hi,

No, I've just bought the TS ones I linked to earlier. I found these easier to setup as they have self centering eyepiece holders so the alignment was trivial. With both the others I found it more complex and had to fiddle around adjusting them to get them collimated. I also had a pair of Denkmeiers which had self centering eyepiece holders too, they were excellent but expensive!

Ah, okay thanks. I'm leaning towards the TS ones too, with Williams as my main alternative. Haven't completely ruled out the Baaders but I need to end this procrastination!! I think the compression rings rather than screws is drawing me that way though that probably shouldn't be the major consideration!

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, Astral Enigma said:

Ah, okay thanks. I'm leaning towards the TS ones too, with Williams as my main alternative. Haven't completely ruled out the Baaders but I need to end this procrastination!! I think the compression rings rather than screws is drawing me that way though that probably should be a major consideration!

Well I went for the TS ones in part because of the compression rings, but also because they specifically mention well aligned and checked prisms. I've had trouble in the past, probably due to my eyes being sensitive to misalignment, but I had no problems with these. They seem good.

Bear in mind that they have no other accessories though so if you need a Barlow to reach focus or eyepieces then that is extra. I had both already so did not want to pay again.

[spaceboy]

I had a pair of WO bino's for all of 3 days. There is no denying 2 eyes are better than one but that was ultimately my problem in the end. The reality of just how many eyepieces I was going to have to buy, it was as if I could see my money evaporating in front of both my eyes and not the usual one  

Seriously though if I could afford it I would have kept them. The image is a shade dimmer than a single eyepiece (in my experience most notably in solar Ha) but there is so much more contrast apparent on nebulas the moon and solar WL. What I did find is that most of the time I was left wanting for magnification as your eyes work so well together as a pair that your views don't seem so strained by poor seeing and you feel as though you can push the mag that bit further. Of course you can't because ultimately the views are determined by the atmosphere and pushing the mag even with two eyes will not result in better views. So I kind of ended up slightly underwhelmed if that makes any sense ??

As with single eyepieces you need several focal lengths to either nudge seeing that bit further or fit things in, and this is no different with bino's and where bino viewing can become a money pit. I know a lot of people settle for zoom eyepieces to avoid problems with the wife but bino's eat up inward focus and zoom ep's do a bit of munching themselves. The result can end up with you requiring barlows with ever increasing magnification to counteract this and in doing so you loose a vast range of lower wide fov magnification. Not only this...... In the case of the popular Baader 8-24mm click stop zoom your going to be hanging an awful lot of weight of the back or side of your scope so you are going to no doubt need some sort of counterweight and a dam good focuser.

All in all I would highly recommend bino viewers as the views seem to triple the contrast and it is so much more pleasant and natural to view something with both eyes. Yes they can be a total pain in the butt if you don't have flexibility with focus travel and cost an arm and a leg in having to double up on eyepieces. The advantage with the WO binos is that they come with a barlow ( TBH x1.6 no use at all and you will probably need x2) and a pair of EP's so you can give bino'ing a go to see if it will work in your scopes.

[Mak the Night]

Bear in mind, the compression rings on the WO bino's effectively precludes the use of eyepieces featuring the older style barrel undercuts. Smoothies and flares are fine though lol. The 20mm WO SWAN's are pretty good but after using a pair of 18mm BCO's in my WO's they tend to stay in my box a lot these days. The WO's have thumbscrews AND compression rings on each eyepiece holder. Also, both eyepiece holders have their own dioptres. The WO's also come supplied with a 1.6x Barlow nosepiece and there is a 2x Barlow available from FLO if you request it.

[Astral Enigma]

Hello everyone - during my deliberations I've spotted this review of the WO BVs. I'm not saying anything about it other than it makes an interesting read - perhaps those more knowledgeable than me will have some thoughts...

http://www.scopereviews.com/page3j.html

[Mak the Night]

35 minutes ago, Astral Enigma said:

Hello everyone - during my deliberations I've spotted this review of the WO BVs. I'm not saying anything about it other than it makes an interesting read - perhaps those more knowledgeable than me will have some thoughts...

http://www.scopereviews.com/page3j.html

I've seen this, it's a few years old though I think. Regarding some of the initial points; I personally haven't noticed the image being dimmed all that significantly with a bino. I use mine on a Mak so focus travel isn't a problem. Merging the images can take practice but is quite subjective IMO, it depends on a lot of factors. I find it easier with high magnifications on some targets and sometimes the reverse. The longest f/l eyepiece bino pair I have are 32mm Baader BCO's and I doubt I'd really need longer in a bino on any telescope. My favourite high power are 12.5mm Astro Hutech ortho's (often Barlowed) and they work fine. The WO bino with light EP's adds weight to the rear of the scope but should be fine on even small scopes of 100-90mm with a good mount. I can use mine easily enough and I'm partially paralysed in my right arm and leg. A thread-on diagonal might be more secure for a big bino with a couple of Panoptics but a conventional push-fit should suffice for the WO bino's and small, relatively light eyepieces.

[Astral Enigma]

Thanks again... it's all interesting. I think I'm now leaning back towards the Williams - the fact they come with a pair of clearly well matched EPs that no-one's said anything bad about is a strong factor. I have two SCTs - 9.25" on a AVX mount (which should take the weight easily - in fact that was my first experience when I borrowed some last weekend) and my Nexstar SE6 - smaller and far faster to set up when I get a brief break in the cloud - hopefully the BVs will be okay with that too. But whether I go for WO or TS, the weight isn't going to change significantly. 

Additional EPs will come later - 15mm TV Plossls may be top of the list. May sell one or two I currently have but have hardly ever used, like my 10mm Hyperion...

[spaceboy]

56 minutes ago, Astral Enigma said:

 the fact they come with a pair of clearly well matched EPs that no-one's said anything bad about is a strong factor.

You'll find that most eyepieces work well in bino's as barlows are often required to reach focus and more often than not barlowing an eyepiece can help to improve the performance as you are essentially increasing the focal length of the scope. SCT's and Maks that reach focus with out the need for barlows often have a long focal length anyway and so are already forgiving of even the poorest of eyepieces. Barlowing won't make a Rubbish eyepiece good by any means but it will certainly improve it. If I remember correctly (and I'm sure TV fans will pull me up on it if wrong) it was suggested some time ago that Televue naglers incorporate a similar lens set up to a barlow in their make up. It sure would go to explain why they work so well in scopes down to f/4. Most coma correctors and parcaorr / sips systems also have a barlowing effect on eyepieces no doubt to achieve similar goals.

 

Out of the TS and WO bino's I would go with the TS as they have self centring eyepiece holders. The WO's are great if you are on the fence and want to give it a try to see if it's for you and even if you decide to stick with them you'd be getting a good budget pair of bino's out of the deal, but in my mind the TS take that little bit more potential for errors out of the mix by making sure the eyepieces are firing straight.

 

Not wanting to rock the boat you could also consider a pair of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BST-Starguider-Binoviewer-with-3x-1-85x-Barlow-32mm-Pl-eyepieces-/161865174141?hash=item25afea8c7d:g:vkMAAOSw~bFWJ7-H There is a lot of astronomers the other side of the pond that use and recommend the Acturus branded model of these and they too come with centring holders, 32mm eyepieces and a couple of barlows to help you achieve focus. Alan at skies the limit is a highly regarded fellow on SGL as many members have purchased BST explorers from him over the years. I'm sure if you have any queries he will be more than happy to accommodate you. My guess is that the internals of the BST binos are not that different to all the other budget binos on the market. OK they don't look as pretty and this is a factor for some people but hey each to their own.

[Mak the Night]

I will be getting a 235mm SCT in a few weeks, I'm pretty sure that my WO bino's will be secure in that. They work fine in my 102mm Mak with a manual EQ2 mount. I have a couple of 19mm Panoptics but I think the combined weight plus the bino may difficult for me, notwithstanding it puts a fair bit of weight onto the diagonal. I have a pair of TV Plossls, they work well. I also have a pair of 18mm Baader BCO's which are very good as well. The 20mm SWAN's are fairly good, although I think they sometimes show some chromatic aberration. As the predominant objects I bino observe are planetary and M42 I don't always see the need for a very wide angle view.

[jetstream]

On 2016-03-09 at 13:55, Mak the Night said:

I will be getting a 235mm SCT in a few weeks, I'm pretty sure that my WO bino's will be secure in that. They work fine in my 102mm Mak with a manual EQ2 mount. I have a couple of 19mm Panoptics but I think the combined weight plus the bino may difficult for me, notwithstanding it puts a fair bit of weight onto the diagonal. I have a pair of TV Plossls, they work well. I also have a pair of 18mm Baader BCO's which are very good as well. The 20mm SWAN's are fairly good, although I think they sometimes show some chromatic aberration. As the predominant objects I bino observe are planetary and M42 I don't always see the need for a very wide angle view.

Do you find the undercuts on your 25mmTV plossls mess with the merge? I just ordered another 25mm TV plossl and another 12.5mm Tak to try in the binos.

[Mak the Night]

1 hour ago, jetstream said:

Do you find the undercuts on your 25mmTV plossls mess with the merge? I just ordered another 25mm TV plossl and another 12.5mm Tak to try in the binos.

I've not noticed it. I've experimented with EP's with old-style non-tapered undercuts and they sat OK in the bino but extracting wasn't easy.