Which Binocular?

[smeech]

Hi guys,

I'm planning on kayaking he great canoe trail between Inverness and Fort William in July - using an inflatable kayak.  I'll be wild camping so thought it would be the ideal opportunity to get a pair of binoculars and observe the night sky.

I have done an awful lot of research and at around 3pm yesterday decided I would settle on some 10x50 porro prisms.  Either Pentax, Optichron, Nikon or Bushnell.  Might have been another too.  I settled on these because they are at a magnification and aperture useful for astronomy and also general use.

However, at around 3:01pm I thought these are going to be a little bit big for taking all the way to Scotland with five days of gear (minimalist I must admit) but with the kayak as well it's looking like around 30 kg of gear.  Taking a large set of binoculars is probably not ideal.

Then shortly after 3:01pm (probably closer to about 4pm as my brain tends to work slowly nowadays) I thought why not roof prisms.

My understanding is that the only reason porro is better is because of cost.

And this is where you folks come in....

Am I correct?  If so, do any of you know of some roof prisms that compare favourably to the porros above at similar mag and aperture for general use?  Or even some that are better.  I had intended of spending up to £150 but I guess if the right pair came up I could go a bit higher.  Could even be talked into a monocular if you know of a good one.

So, do you have any recommendations or thoughts on my understanding above?

Thanks in advance.

Steve

[CHAMACO]

Take it easy man, and buy a good 8x40 porro. Nikon Action EX 8X40 with 8 degrees of TFOV is perfect to enjoy the night in good skies. Small and nice binoculars. Waterproof and nitrogen filled (important if you are on a kayak). Good value for less than 150 pounds. You can reach magnitudes at 9.5 on clear skies. 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-Action-EX-8x40-Binocular/dp/B0001HKIJK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433239171&sr=8-1&keywords=nikon+action+ex+8x40

[CHAMACO]

With 8 degress TFOV you can watch in the same field of view the full Lyra constellation. That's is simply amazing.

[Charic]

Hi there, 7x50 or 8x40 just as good. Waterproof and ruggedness a must for the extremes. Its not very dark up here in July? Enjoy your trip

[smeech]

Take it easy man, and buy a good 8x40 porro. Nikon Action EX 8X40 with 8 degrees of TFOV is perfect to enjoy the night in good skies. Small and nice binoculars. Waterproof and nitrogen filled (important if you are on a kayak). Good value for less than 150 pounds. You can reach magnitudes at 9.5 on clear skies. 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-Action-EX-8x40-Binocular/dp/B0001HKIJK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433239171&sr=8-1&keywords=nikon+action+ex+8x40

Yes thinking maybe lower the mag.  However, what do you think about the roof prisms?  Is it just cost that stops people using them or is it more function?

Hi there, 7x50 or 8x40 just as good. Waterproof and ruggedness a must for the extremes. Its not very dark up here in July? Enjoy your trip

Yes I know.  Just want something to do in the evening rather than playing games on my phone.  Even in twilight you can start to see the night sky (moon for example - assuming it is out!).

[CHAMACO]

Yes thinking maybe lower the mag.  However, what do you think about the roof prisms?  Is it just cost that stops people using them or is it more function?

Roof binoculars have a more complex light path inside and require much greater optical precision in manufacturing. The porro binos are more light efficient and show better contrast. Therefore, a good porro prism will always deliver a better performance for the money than roof prism.

[smeech]

Ok I think I see what you are saying.

So if you took the nikons you linked and compared them to these;

http://www.johnlewis.com/nikon-monarch-5-waterproof-binoculars-8-x-42/p503184

The porro ones would be optically better?

Cheers

[CHAMACO]

Ok I think I see what you are saying.

So if you took the nikons you linked and compared them to these;

http://www.johnlewis.com/nikon-monarch-5-waterproof-binoculars-8-x-42/p503184

The porro ones would be optically better?

Cheers

The Monarch is optically better. But you have a minor field of view. Instead of 8 degrees, you have 6.5 degrees with the Monarch 5. So no way with Monarch to get the full Lyra constellation in the same field of view.

But optically is sharper and better light transmission. If you feel OK with the 200 pounds difference, just go for the Monarch. It's a great binocular as well.

[damnut]

I an going to add Whoa.... That is a great route. My question is if you are going to take all this kit in your canoe or are you having it shipped to your overnight stay. If you are having to portage, you will be carrying it.

If you are not a confident canoeist and you capsize, you are risking expensive bino's. Me it would be a pair of bog standard 10*50's

[smeech]

The Monarch is optically better. But you have a minor field of view. Instead of 8 degrees, you have 6.5 degrees with the Monarch 5. So no way with Monarch to get the full Lyra constellation in the same field of view.

But optically is sharper and better light transmission. If you feel OK with the 200 pounds difference, just go for the Monarch. It's a great binocular as well.

Thanks.  I'm going to be trying out both types (and will probably end up with the porros) I just wanted to be sure that the optics weren't the issue.

I an going to add Whoa.... That is a great route. My question is if you are going to take all this kit in your canoe or are you having it shipped to your overnight stay. If you are having to portage, you will be carrying it.

If you are not a confident canoeist and you capsize, you are risking expensive bino's. Me it would be a pair of bog standard 10*50's

Thanks for reply.

I'll be carrying the lot.  The kayak (its and inflatable) makes up most of the weight at about 17 kg.  So I'll only have to carry around twelve - not including water - on my back with the kayak on my shoulder.  Inflatables are difficult to capsize but in the event of bad weather everything will be in dry bags except my emergency equipment - which will be on me anyway.  Theoretically the dry bags will float!

Theoretically.

I'm by no means experienced but think this is doable.  But if you feel it is overdoing it please do let me know.

[damnut]

Ok,

Inflateables are less difficult to capsize but are more difficult to get back into. Are you able to have a spray deck or are these open canoes??.

You will have to portege around some of the locks I would have thought and possibly at Fort Augustus depending on traffic up the canal. If you happen to hit the main Lochs calm, it will be little effort. However Loch Ness can have a nasty fetch, and can be difficult to get out of especially  what will be to your port  going south from Inverness. With having no draught you will be very susceptible to breeze.

I am sure you will have all this in hand . Have a great trip the scenery is STUNNING.

[smeech]

Ok,

Inflateables are less difficult to capsize but are more difficult to get back into. Are you able to have a spray deck or are these open canoes??.

You will have to portege around some of the locks I would have thought and possibly at Fort Augustus depending on traffic up the canal. If you happen to hit the main Lochs calm, it will be little effort. However Loch Ness can have a nasty fetch, and can be difficult to get out of especially  what will be to your port  going south from Inverness. With having no draught you will be very susceptible to breeze.

I am sure you will have all this in hand . Have a great trip the scenery is STUNNING.

Most of it yes. I know I will need to portage near fort William and Augustus. I'm not small so 30kg in total I think should be fine. I haven't bought train tickets yet and will only do so once I know the weather will be generally ok and also wind direction ie East to west or west to East. I will be keeping relatively close to shore on all the lochs so any difficulties will either mean landing for the night or rolling up and walking till dusk.

I appreciate the comments by the way. It's a big undertaking. If anyone fancies coming along let me know!

But......

Which binoculars? I'm suffering from too much choice and lack of decision making.

Steve

[damnut]

Hi Steve,

In which case, do take some distress flares and a small floating smoke. I know the area well, have being going to the highlands for a lot of years. If you hit a ne, it howls down the glen. Plan your stops, let the Fort William coastguard know, they cover to Fort Augustus & RNLI who cover Loch Ness. Some info ;--- http://greatglencanoetrail.info/

Enjoy

[scarp15]

Have a great trip, I have not canoed this, but have walked or cycled along some of this route. Perhaps consider a Pelican hard case or similar, combined with the required as mentioned dry bag, so as to protect collimation and harm from general, potential occasional fairly rough going travel use.

[smeech]

Cheers guys and thanks for the tips.

On the binoculars again, are the barr and stroud savannah 10x56 ED good for atsronomy?

[smeech]

Hi folks,

I got to try some Minox BV 8x42 roof prisms last night.  Admittedly through a window but got to take a look at Jupiter.  However, I couldn't get my right eye focused.  Could this have been because of looking through the window?

It was also not quite dark enough.  Dark but not pitch black.  I couldn't really see much detail.  To be expected with 8x I guess.  So I have a question: would I see more with 10x?  Or would I just see the planet and it's moons as dots?  Would I see any kind of planetary detail?

Cheers

Steve

[ghostdance]

My 10x50s don't show me planetary detail

( Jupiter bands etc). Nor do my 15x or 20x, and Saturn is an ovoid shape but no ring definition. All this under London skies... but I don't think any binocular from 7× to 20× will show planetary detail as such. But, could be wrong - never had the pleasure of truly dark skies *and* bins on the same night.

Edit\ forgot to say - sounds a wonderful trip! Hope you have a great time. Where you're going is just beautiful. But take midge repellent, lol

Steve

[smeech]

Cheers,

Yes I've heard midges are bad news.  I'm debating which side of the lochs to stay at night simply because of them!

Oh cool,  That clears it up then.  May just plump for the 8x42s then as they are lighter.  Want them for airshows too so portability may be good.  Although a Typhoon in a 10x would be nicer i'd guess!

Going to give them another try tonight and see if I can get good focus on the ones I've borrowed.

Steve

[BinocularSky]

So I have a question: would I see more with 10x?  Or would I just see the planet and it's moons as dots?  Would I see any kind of planetary detail?

 Unless you took an enormous step up in quality (like Swarovski territory - around £2k for 10x50), you'll not see any planetary detail at 10x, and even then it would be minimal.

"Normal" binoculars are simply not th einstrument of choice for the bright planets. On the other hand, when it comes to the big faint fuzzies...

[smeech]

Hmm.  Ok, so given the choice between the two below, which would you choose - not taking price into account?  Assume brand is B&S for the roofs and lets say Nikon for the Porro's

8x40 Porro

8x42 ED glass Roof

10x56 ED glass Roof

10x50 Porro

Remember these are primarily for night sky and then a little day time use.