Basic Questions - Please Help

[iLoveSpace]

Hello everyone!

So I am just a high school student that is new to the world of amateur astronomy, as I just recently bought a telescope and since it's been snowing for months (Yes, I live in Canada, lol) I haven't been able to use it. So I thought I'd learn more about space and telescopes since I barely knew anything and was interested to know more.

After reading a ton of books from the school library and checking out the local planetarium, I still have some pretty simple questions that probably seem very stupid. Lol I'm sorry, I never had anyone show me about telescopes and space, I had to pick up info on my own, anyways without further ado, here are some questions. 

• Is there a certain technique when looking through a telescope?

I know it sounds dumb, you obviously have to look through the eyepiece, which is what I do, but I don't know, it just feels very uncomfortable. My neck starts to hurt since I have to bend it down to look into the eyepiece, it feels weird how you have to close one eye on your own, and my face starts to hurt since I have to raise my cheekbone to close one eye.

• Is it really true that all specks of light that do not twinkle are planets?

I have read in many articles and books that "Specks of light that twinkle are starts and light that doesn't is a planet". Is this really true? Because I live in the city where there is a lot of light pollution, and I frequently see a strong speck of light that does not twinkle at all. Could it really be a planet? I tried zooming in on it and its still just a white dot.

• What is the point of looking at a star through a telescope?

I get looking at planets and the moon, but why do people look at stars through telescopes, aren't they still just going to be small white dots?

And finally, does anyone have advice on what I could see in the sky? I have only seen the moon so far, and have zoomed in on several stars but they're still just white dots, the exact same size with the naked eye. 

I REALLY badly want to see planets, any planet, but is it possible to see a planet in the city? (I live in Montreal, Canada, there are several street lights on my street)

Thanks everyone!!

[Rusty-Gunn]

What telescope do you have? What eye pieces does it contain?

Others here always recommend Stellarium. Its a free download that can show you what is viewable from your location.

I, too, find it differcult at times to view for many minutes trying to close one eye. I figure given enough time it will become easier. I hope so.

I can't answer the questions, I am interested in what others say though.

In any case, welcome to stargazing.

[Rusty-Gunn]

www.stellarium.com

I think this is the site. If not someone will correct me.

[iLoveSpace]

I just checked online I think the site you're talking about is www.Stellarium.org

I own a Powerseeker 50AZ. The eyepieces are 4mm, 12.5mm, and 20mm

So far the only thing I've used it for is observing the moon

[iLoveSpace]

Just curious, what exactly does Stellarium do? And how does it work?

[rowan46]

if you have trouble closing one eye , try an eye patch,

scintillation is the term  used to describe the twinkling of the stars and it is an atmospheric effect. so although generally planets are steadier its not a hard and fast rule, it depends on how disturbed the atmosphere is.

Some people  look at stars to see their colour some to test their optics some to test their observational skills and some to measure angles for astrometric purposes.

If you waant to look at other than stars and planets try the m numbers http://www.seasky.org/astronomy/astronomy-messier.html

[rowan46]

Just curious, what exactly does Stellarium do? And how does it work?

stellarium is a free planetarium programme it tells you where and what the stars are, the best way to see what it does is to download it and play with it

[rowan46]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkling explains it better than I do

[Qualia]

• Is there a certain technique when looking through a telescope?

I know it sounds dumb, you obviously have to look through the eyepiece, which is what I do, but I don't know, it just feels very uncomfortable. My neck starts to hurt since I have to bend it down to look into the eyepiece, it feels weird how you have to close one eye on your own, and my face starts to hurt since I have to raise my cheekbone to close one eye.

Aye, it can seem odd at the beginning, especially if you're using a frac pointing towards the zentih or a newt on an EQ mount But in time, you'll get the feel for your scope and gradually find what suits you more. Let us know what scope you're using and I'm sure someone can help more directly.

It is worth pointing out that being seated is very important. For visual astronomy, you need to be patient, relaxed and comfortable, so as to be able to tweak and discern some of the delicate detail from far away objects. It also helps that you are not shaking at the eyepiece or putting your body under any untoward stress. Needless to say, if you're uncomfortable at the telescope, you'll do less observing, and the observations you make will be less fulfilling and less accurate. I'm so convinced about the power of seating that I believe with a little practice and care it will add a virtual inch or two to your aperture.

It's also good practice not to strain your eyes by squinting in the eyepiece, but to observe with both eyes open. To effectively do this, I would recommend the use of a comfortable eyepatch bought from a local chemist or make one for yourself. Other observers prefer a hat pulled over their non-observing eye. Either method avoids eye fatigue and unnecessary strain.

• Is it really true that all specks of light that do not twinkle are planets?

I have read in many articles and books that "Specks of light that twinkle are starts and light that doesn't is a planet". Is this really true? Because I live in the city where there is a lot of light pollution, and I frequently see a strong speck of light that does not twinkle at all. Could it really be a planet? I tried zooming in on it and its still just a white dot.

As a general rule stars scintillate but planets do not. It's a general rule and like all general rules isn't strictly true. Anything outside the Earth's atmosphere is going to twinkle, but whether our naked eye can detect this is another question.

Stars are so cosmically distant from us that even in powerful telescopes they appear as mere pinpoints of light. Because all that light is coming to us from a single point, its path is more susceptible to atmospheric interference. Planets are significantly closer and so rather than appearing as points of light, they are seen as tiny disks in the night sky. The light reflected from them is thus greater than the pockets of air that would distort their light, so the effects of scintillation are negligible.

If you are using a telescope and focus on a planet, you should be able to see that rather than being a single point of light it is disc like. In many cases, such as viewing Jupiter or Saturn, you should also be able to discern some surface features. So, if you viewed a planet like Venus, Jupiter, Mars or Saturn with a telescope and saw it only as a single point of light similar to a star, I imagine something is either wrong with the telescope or you haven't stumbled upon a planet.  

• What is the point of looking at a star through a telescope?

I get looking at planets and the moon, but why do people look at stars through telescopes, aren't they still just going to be small white dots?

I often ask the same question about computer games or the television in general

But seriously, it is because you can. The Sun is a pretty normal star as stars go but is a fascinating object to observe. Open clusters, globulars and galaxies are also collections of stars and must surely be some of the most beautiful objects of nature to witness You can check out the remains of stars in planetaries or you can see where they're being born in nebulae like M 42. Not all stars are white. Antares is red, Vega is blue, Betelgeuse is orange, Aldebaran is a pale rose, Albirero golden and brilliant blue, and so on which leads us to star fields, those wheeling and glittering mass of suns and double stars which come in a range of stunning colours and are great to observe and split.

The list and reasons go on and I imagine everyone has at least one reason why they like stargazing but for me it is perhaps one of the most sublime things I can do for pleasure, enjoyment, creativity and inspiration. There’s something wonderful about lying or sitting under a starry sky that evokes the power of wonder and awe.

I truely believe stargazing and the appreciation of the cosmic wonders of nature in the night sky enlarges our conception of what is possible, it enriches our intellectual imagination and diminishes dogmatic assurances which closes the mind against speculation and questioning. 

But above all, it is through the greatness and vastness of the universe which astronomy contemplates, that the mind is also rendered vast and great. "We ride a spinning Earth hurtling through space about a sun in a whirlwind of a trillion stars, sealed in an envelope of mysterious dark matter", all sharing a journey of the universe with a trillion other galaxies towards who knows where.

What could be more fascinating and in the same breath more humbling?

[Coastliner]

You absolutely, definitely can see planets from a city! If you have a tablet or a smartphone you muust download Google Skymap, or Star Walk or Sky Guide. With these you can hold your device up to the night sky and it will show you what you are looking at. You can search for say, Jupiter and it will tell you where to point your device to see it. Practice by pointing it at the moon, or search for the moon with it.

Here, Jupiter is very bright at the moment and we can clearly see its moons an banding.

Stellarium is Planetarium software, it is very detailed and free! Once you have punched in your location and time it will show you what is in the sky now, and will let you fast-forward to show you what you can expect to see later in the evening. You can search for objects as well.

It is true regarding looking at stars individually - they are dots. However, you can look at double-stars, or look for a star with a distinctive colour. I can't give you examples because I do not know what you can see in your area of the world. You can look at star clusters, or galaxies, or comets.

Hope this helps,

Neil.

[iLoveSpace]

Hey guys, I have read all your replies and they have been very insightful and interesting to read.

Before starting, I'd just like to say I feel so privileged to have such knowledgeable and kind people here within such a short moment of time, I am really lucky to have stumbled upon this site. Anyways, once snow melts and the weekend comes, I'm going to take my telescope out and get my tools together. I will make sure to check out all of the websites mentioned, I have already just installed Stellarium. I do have a Halloween eye patch somewhere in my house, going to go look for that sooner as well! Lol.

I have a Powerseeker 50AZ with 20mm, 12.5mm, and 4mm eyepieces.  

Also some other two tools which I'm not very familiar with called Barlow or something? I don't know their function.

Also, another question, when I'm observing through my telescope, I just want to slightly move it so that I could place the object directly at the center of the viewing circle, but whenever I move my telescope a bit, it moves way too much and it takes me several minutes just to get the image in the center. How can I stop this issue?

~Thanks again

[Rusty-Gunn]

Ilovespace... Thank you for correcting my post.

[jambouk]

Have a look online and see if there is an astronomy group near by you could go to with an adult. There will be people there with the same interest and hopefully different telescopes you can look through. Astronomers are usually happy to chat and show off their kit.

As said above observing takes patience; so you need to be warm and comfortable. Wear your ski gear and a hat, and snow boots with lots of socks, nothing worse than being cold when trying to concentrate. Get a chair you can use outside, pad the seat so it is more comfortable and warmer.

Use stellarium in advance of your observing session to identify roughly where a couple of targets are going to be at the time you are planning tonobserve, jupiter, the orion nebula, the pleides for example. Make your own simple deawings the you can take outside to help find these objects using bright star patterns as guides. Use a red light so it doesn't destroy your night vision (red cellophane over a torce, or paint an old torch with red nail varnish).

I don't know your scope, but does it have slow motion controlls, or you just have to push the scope itself? Whatever the option, in the day light see if you can grease the mechanism which rotates and elevates the scope so it runs smoothly and easily; get an adult to help if it looks tricky. Does the tripod wobble? If so, can you get a bit of string and tie from the centre of the tripod underneath and tie something heavy to the other end near the floor to add some stability? You will only need very small movements as i think you have diacovered, to cause a lot of wobble.

I don't want to sound rude, but you have probably the cheapest telescope telhere is, and as such it isn't designed to make life easy for the observer. So don't be put off astronomy by this, i am sure you can make some modifications to improve your experience and i think if you can get to a star party you'll be amazed at what you can do with a telescope.

A barlow is a multiplier. So if you use a 10mm eye piece with a barlow, as long as it is a 2x barlow, it will turn it into a 5mm eye piece which will double the magnification. But remember double the magnification is 't always better. The maximum magnification you should aim for is about 30x per inch. Your aperture is 2 inches so don't bother going much about 60x magnification. Your focal length is 600mm, so a 20mm eye piece will give you 600/20 = 30x magnification; a 12.5mm eye piece 600/12.5 = 48x magnification, and 4mm 600/4 = 150x magnification; i wouldn't use the 4mm eye piece on anything other than the moon.

It's so exciting to see someone your age fascinated by al this; i remenber being your age and feeling the same.

Good luck and keep asking the questions.

James

[jambouk]

I'm in the process of trying to collate a selection of online resources for my local society; here is a link to the latest version (work in progress and any dead links are totally my fault); feel free to look at the facebook page and like it, as I am trying to work on that too and increase our number of likes:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h9hvy9q4jq9d7s6/NAS%20helpdesk%20documents.pdf?dl=0

James

[ronin]

Looking through an eyepiece can be a little difficult, try showing kids to use a scope. Often the face is crunched up and both eyes are closed. The amount of noses that make contact with the eyepiece are amazing.

One aspect is - are you using your dominent eye?

From archery I know of people that are right handed but left eye dominent.

If closing one eye you may have to learn to close it "softly" too easy to try and clamp it tightly shut and your fave muscles suffer. Can you manage to view with both eyes open? May seem odd but many manage it and find it comfortable, even if a bit odd.

Stars twinkle owing to the atmosphere and their "size".

It is a fair rule hat stars twinkle and planets do not but it is I think just a good guide.

Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Satirn will not twinkle, the angle they subtend is sufficent to make "twinkling" not possible. Now I suspect that Uranus and Neptune may "twinkle" at least a little. Tehy are small enough to appears star like and so the light coming through the atmosphere could cause sufficent refraction.

Twinkling is also the splitting of light (Newton and his prism) and stars emit in all wavelengths but Uranus and Neptune are predominently one colour. So that colour absence will count against twinkling.

I would half suspect that since Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn do not twinkle that it just became common to say "No planet twinkles".

Pointing a scope at a star is a little meaningless, the star remains a point.

However many are doubles, so you are actually looking at 2 stars and the exercise is to split the 2.

Some are variable and people observe and record the changes in magnitude. AAVSO is actually a large group of observers.

One aspect of a scope is simply it collects more light so a star appears brighter. A brighter Betelguese is somehow nicer then what you see by eye.

There are some stars that really need a scope - Carbon stars. These are cool very red stars and for them a scope is required.

The other aspect is the important one - spectroscopy, to determine what components of elements the star is made from. A huge amount of astronomy is spectroscopy.

[rowan46]

Qualia has done his usual eloquent and lovely reply but mentioned solar observing, can I point you to the banner at the top of the page about the dangers of solar observation. NEVER POINT YOUR SCOPE AT THE SUN UNLESS YOU HAVE THE PROPER EQUIPMENT. THAT'S AT LEAST AN OBJECTIVE  COVERING FILTER MADE OF AN APPROVED MATERIAL baader solar film is good

[damnut]

Did not see correction for stellarium website to be found here : --- http://www.stellarium.org/ ,  All good advice above.

[Astro Imp]

Hi ilovespace, good to have you with us.

The two things that improved my enjoyment were:- 

  i) Sitting comfortable at the eyepiece and taking my time.

 ii) Using an eye patch over my non observing eye.

Have fun and enjoy this wonderful hobby, you have started on a lifetime of adventure.

[iLoveSpace]

Have a look online and see if there is an astronomy group near by you could go to with an adult. There will be people there with the same interest and hopefully different telescopes you can look through. Astronomers are usually happy to chat and show off their kit.

As said above observing takes patience; so you need to be warm and comfortable. Wear your ski gear and a hat, and snow boots with lots of socks, nothing worse than being cold when trying to concentrate. Get a chair you can use outside, pad the seat so it is more comfortable and warmer.

Use stellarium in advance of your observing session to identify roughly where a couple of targets are going to be at the time you are planning tonobserve, jupiter, the orion nebula, the pleides for example. Make your own simple deawings the you can take outside to help find these objects using bright star patterns as guides. Use a red light so it doesn't destroy your night vision (red cellophane over a torce, or paint an old torch with red nail varnish).

I don't know your scope, but does it have slow motion controlls, or you just have to push the scope itself? Whatever the option, in the day light see if you can grease the mechanism which rotates and elevates the scope so it runs smoothly and easily; get an adult to help if it looks tricky. Does the tripod wobble? If so, can you get a bit of string and tie from the centre of the tripod underneath and tie something heavy to the other end near the floor to add some stability? You will only need very small movements as i think you have diacovered, to cause a lot of wobble.

I don't want to sound rude, but you have probably the cheapest telescope telhere is, and as such it isn't designed to make life easy for the observer. So don't be put off astronomy by this, i am sure you can make some modifications to improve your experience and i think if you can get to a star party you'll be amazed at what you can do with a telescope.

A barlow is a multiplier. So if you use a 10mm eye piece with a barlow, as long as it is a 2x barlow, it will turn it into a 5mm eye piece which will double the magnification. But remember double the magnification is 't always better. The maximum magnification you should aim for is about 30x per inch. Your aperture is 2 inches so don't bother going much about 60x magnification. Your focal length is 600mm, so a 20mm eye piece will give you 600/20 = 30x magnification; a 12.5mm eye piece 600/12.5 = 48x magnification, and 4mm 600/4 = 150x magnification; i wouldn't use the 4mm eye piece on anything other than the moon.

It's so exciting to see someone your age fascinated by al this; i remenber being your age and feeling the same.

Good luck and keep asking the questions.

James

Sounds great, I have already read upon magnification and I know the formula, just wasn't sure about what exactly the Barlow lenses were.

Yeah I'm aware my telescope isn't strong and is very weak, I just received it as a Christmas present from my parents. 

Thanks a bunch.

[jambouk]

I disn't explain rhe barlow thing well.

If it is a 2x barlow (there are others like 1.5x, 3x, 4x, 5x) then multiply your focal length by that number: 600 x 2 = 1200. Thenif you ise a 10mm eye piece with the barlow, you get 1200/10 = 120x magnification, where as if you don't use the barlow you get 600/10 = 60x magnification.

So the barlow is fundamentally altering your focal length. Focal reducers have the reverse effect...

I hope you manage to see some of the wonderful things in the nught sky. Do keep us posted.

James

[ghostdance]

All above is spot on  so I won't add but just to say - try and relax while observing, get a seat if at all possible (doing this one thing has benefited my observing greatly), and keep at it!

What is a blob now will become in time a featured and fascinating object* - I learnt this with Jupiter & see loads more now than the the bright, faintly seamed but pretty featureless disc I first observed...similar with Saturn - it took time to get my eye & brain to start picking up on detail (atmospheric bands, Cassini Division etc) and not to go on, but the same with the  Orion Nebula M42, star patterns in M44 Beehive....and the hours I spent vainly hunting the Andromeda Galaxy with my first scope! 

* Some more than others it's true but think of the journey! 

I have found no greater wonder that I am able to witness such beauty, natural grace and immensity, from my city backyard with my own eyes...welcome to forever