Mount: new or used?

[mjbent]

Hello all, still fairly new here but settled in a new city in Canada - Victoria! I thought I'd start my astrophotography path by talking about mounts - I don't own one right now and I really don't have the money to shell out for a new one. Arg I'm a student (albeit an astro student) and I want to eventually get into deep sky shooting in the long run. I'm wondering if finding a used mount is my better way to go right now, or should I save up and get a new one? I currently have a 10" dob, and I'm looking to acquire another scope eventually, however I think a mount is probably a good starting talking point since it seems to be one of, if not the most, cruicial element to your set up. I may be wrong but that's why I'm asking about it! I'd love to hook my DSLR to the mount too for long exposures. Thanks so much for your help and input.

[swag72]

The mount really is the most important part of the astro puzzle. As to whether you buy new or used, I guess that's a personal choice and also how confident you feel with the seller. I sold my mount last year, the guy was over the moon with it and it was a good performing mount - I would have been pleased with it as a second hand buy.

On the other hand you hear of folks buying a real bag of bolts.

At least with a new mount you have a warranty to fall back on - Second hand is a bit of a punt in comparison. 

So, all things considered I've bought a few things second hand - But never a mount. I rather like the idea of a warranty if it goes wrong.

[Scott]

You are absolutely right mj. If astro photography is where you see yourself ending up then your mount is critical and also quite expensive (here in the uk anyway). It won't matter how good your camera or 'scope is, if it's on a dud mount, you've got no chance. Fortunately, astronomers tend to be a bit ott when it comes to caring for their equiptment, so buying second hand is a viable option providing you can be sure of its performance. Would you have someone (or perhaps yourself), that would be able to help you check a prospective mount over to make sure it's ok.

I bought my mount new, and knowing what I know now, I seriously doubt I'd pay new prices again for any major astro purchases.

Also, bare in mind that if you are considering mounting your 10" dob on the mount (and I'd want to) then you'll really want something quite substantial. quote payloads for mounts are usually for visaul work. for ap, you don't really want to go much higher than 2/3's of the max.

HTH

[Scott]

Ahh, the beauty of forums...two replies, completely different opinions...........but which one is right? only you can answer that   

[ollypenrice]

You'd need a big mount for the 10 inch, the EQ6 or Orion equivalent being the minimum. That would net be an easy setup in any way.

But if you just want a tracking mount for a camera then you have lots of choices, including some of the camera-only devices like tha Astrotrac, Vixen Polarie or the new SW or iOptron camera tracking mounts.

Have a look at the images posted by StuartJPP and Melsky on here. Remarkable stuff.

Olly

[uhb1966]

It really depends on your confidence with the seller! It also depends on the used/new price ratio... i would not buy sth second hand if there's not a substantial rebate to allow for repairs, at least 50%.

[mjbent]

Thanks for your input! I think the best bet would be to get something capable of mounting the dob, but also acquring a smaller scope for a simpler setup for different occaisions. I would have to really investigate the sellers around here, I think there are a few stores I will go check out just to even see prices. If I can get a year or two of use out of a second hand mount that was a good price, I'd be extremely happy. I'd love to get an Astrotrac but I think it would be much better to go with a mount for a scope at this point. I'll definitely be checking out those pics. Thanks for tha tip auspom, about the 2/3 payload! I will certainly look around and see what I can uncover.

I guess I should be looking into the EQ6? any others I should keep my eye out for?

[ChrisLX200]

If the seller appears knowledgable and also has some images taken using the mount to show you then I don't see what the problem is buying s/h. You can assess the mount's performance fairly easily - something you can't do with a new mount. If you're new to the game and start having problems how are you going to know if the problem is your inexperience or a genuine issue with the mount? Plenty of examples on here of new mounts behaving badly.

ChrisH

[ronin]

The club that meet up at Saanich should be around and holding evening about now. Long drive up to the observatory.

Isn't there an astro shop at Mill Bay, Island Eyepieces or something similar.

Also a couple of star parties about now up, one is up around The Malahat (?) and I seem to recall one more conveniently around Colwood or Metchosin.

Have friends around Tillicum and if I caught the sea plane from Vancouver to Victoria it often flew over the Saanich Observatory. Which bit of Victoria are you in?

Just checked and tomorrow, Oct 6, at 19:30 the Victoria club are meeting for a Astro Cafe at Fairfield Community Centre, get along.

If you can get a suitable used mount is good condition then no reason not to get it if you can.

Problem occurs when you want a specific mount, they generally do not appear for sale. So you need to be a bit flexible.

Quite a few clubs on Vancouver Island and I expect that items for sale (mounts) is sort of notified around them. Hence the reason for getting along to the club.

[mjbent]

Thanks ronin! Excellent advice. I'm certainly going to look to start meeting with them. When the aurorae were going on a week or so ago I think a few from the RASC Vic were meeting at Metchosin cricket fields. I hear it's good viewing there. I've yet to go check it out. I'm actually living downtown right now but I'm set to be moving elsewhere in Dec/Jan. Ideally I'd like to put stargazing on the list of wants for my next place haha. I've been meaning to go to the DAO, I was going to go to the final night of public viewing but decided not to. Apparently a lot of people were turned away, huge lineup of cars at the gates. I still need to join the RASC! I literally just moved here Sept 1,  drove across Canada from Ontario, so haven't had much of a chance to do anything. I will have to attend the meetings and find out some good spots to go too. I'm going to take advantage of the observatory open house on Wednesdays at UVic too. 

Thanks everyone for that advice about mounts. So what should I be looking for for that kind of payload? The tube is around 14kg (31lbs).

[mjbent]

I also just realized that it would actually weigh more when you add the rest of the equipment, how much extra weight is that usually?

[ronin]

A simple guide for AP and mounts is get a mount that can handle 2x the OTA weight.

You can take a shot at less say 1.5x the OTA weight.

So I would say you are looking at something capable of 50lbs minimum, which is sort of 25Kg.

Will say I half suggest not using the 10" for AP. It will have a long focal length and the physical tube size counts against it, any breeze and it can cause problems. The 10" is basically a good visual scope for AP you are looking at a different set of criteria.

DAO is a bit "odd" they have the public nights during the summer when the evenings are light and then stop them about now when the nights get dark. I visited the place when it had the previous name. I think they were a lot easier going then.

The Victoria club used to hold meetings at UVIC I think (might still as I didn't read the present site in depth), equally someone else was the chariman, so I guess things have changed. I haven't been over for a few years now - slowly losing touch with people. The Astro Cafe sounds as if it could be useful, at least to see and talk to the people, generally get a feel for the place. Not sure when RASCALs is held.

[ollypenrice]

Weight isn't by any means the whole story. Tracking accuracy under autoguiding also comes into it. The fewer arcseconds per pixel you are collecting the better the tracking accuracy has to be. This is an excellent guide; http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fov.htm

Roughly speaking, above 2 arcsecs per pixel can be called 'tolerant' and usually comes fairly easily with the budget mounts like the NEQ6. Between 1 and 2 arcsecs per pixel is not likely to 'just work' and will need serious fine tuning. Below an arcsecond you will probably be wishing you owned a premium mount!

Olly

[StevieO]

I recently took up the  "astro", habit, and bought a complete set of what I needed to get started, decent enough quality to make sure I wasn't going to have to upgrade anytime soon.

The biggest lesson I've learned was that, when buying high-tech precision equipment like a go-to mount, you need a cast-iron, solid gold (apologies for mixed metaphors, but you get the drift) warranty, so you're better off buying new, and hang the expense. If you need time to save up, so be it.

My brand new mount, make and model withheld for the time being, but a reputable brand, is 2 months old but has already been back to the manufacturers twice and, in fact, they've had it in their possession longer than I have. I now have it back again and it performed flawlessly the other night, so here's hoping it's sorted. I know, however, that if it goes wrong again, I can send it back as many times as required (although if there's a next time, it will go with a demand for a new one).

My point is, you never know when complex gear may let you down, and you need the re-assurance that your seller will put it right. If you can get that with a transferred warranty that's great.

Hope that's helpful to you in making your decision.

StevieO

[ollypenrice]

I recently took up the  "astro", habit, and bought a complete set of what I needed to get started, decent enough quality to make sure I wasn't going to have to upgrade anytime soon.

The biggest lesson I've learned was that, when buying high-tech precision equipment like a go-to mount, you need a cast-iron, solid gold (apologies for mixed metaphors, but you get the drift) warranty, so you're better off buying new, and hang the expense. If you need time to save up, so be it.

My brand new mount, make and model withheld for the time being, but a reputable brand, is 2 months old but has already been back to the manufacturers twice and, in fact, they've had it in their possession longer than I have. I now have it back again and it performed flawlessly the other night, so here's hoping it's sorted. I know, however, that if it goes wrong again, I can send it back as many times as required (although if there's a next time, it will go with a demand for a new one).

My point is, you never know when complex gear may let you down, and you need the re-assurance that your seller will put it right. If you can get that with a transferred warranty that's great.

Hope that's helpful to you in making your decision.

StevieO

This is very true. The higher up the mount pecking order you go the more you demand and the more complex the technology becomes. And the more complex it becomes the more it may not quite work...

Olly

[swag72]

Nothing is infallible. There's a thread on here now about a new Paramount not working. That's over £7k of mount. A shame for anyone when this happens.