saturn help

[algol]

ok guys need help before i head out to observe agian lol.

my saturn i saw last night looks like the second one of this guys pics, how do i go from that to the third say which looks more natural

http://astro-web.eu/saturn.html

[Kai]

You cant go from one to the other visually,you have to wait until the seeing conditions permit im afraid.This allows you to increase the magnification to be able to make out the finer details.

[algol]

ah so its nothing im doing wrong then.

figured it was the seeing, it was pretty low down so light polution etc.

[Vega]

Wait until it's really high in the sky (later at night). Best nights are when it's very clear and so clear that stars along the horizon don;t seem to 'twinkle' so much. This means that the 'seeing' is very good. Sometimes when there's a Northerly or Easterly wind in the UK we get real good seeing.

Matt

[John]

The quality of seeing is the key to the amount of clarity and detail you can see. It can vary, night to night, hour to hour and minute to minute. Moments of great clarity can last only seconds but during those periods is when you see the real details. That's the nature of the hobby !!

Also the more time you spend looking at an object, the more you see. Its as if your eye gradually trains itself to pick out the more subtle details. Some people like to sketch what they are looking at as it means that you really concentrate and look carefully - thats when you start to pick out the more challenging details.

Astronomy is not a hobby of quick wins - the good stuff takes patience and practice. It wouldn't be much fun if it was all easy would it

John

[AlexG]

Just as an example, a couple of days ago I posted about seeing Jupiter at 0600, low down in the south east.

The planet was wobbling but I was able to make out the bands.

Next clear morning I did it again at the same time - it was like looking through the bottom of a milk bottle. Absolutely nothing, yet the two days seemed comparable.

Making sure the telescope has cooled sufficiently is really important too.

AG

[algol]

last night found saturn again.

was a lovely creamy white colour with clear seperation between planet and bands. no cassini or cloud but i was so impressed.

[Astroman]

Wait until it's really high in the sky (later at night). Best nights are when it's very clear and so clear that stars along the horizon don;t seem to 'twinkle' so much. This means that the 'seeing' is very good. Sometimes when there's a Northerly or Easterly wind in the UK we get real good seeing.

Matt

There's no correlation between twinkling stars and the quality of seeing. Twinkling effects can be local or high altitude and have minimal or dramatic effect. All you can do is point your scope at something and find out. When there's a slight breeze at the surface, it can improve seeing, but this can change if upper layers move differently, (as they often do). It also depends on the physical size of the air cells at any given altitude. As our atmosphere is a fluid, all the laws of fluid dynamics are at play, along with densities, temperature and turbulence. It's not an exact science, so all you can do is point, look, and hope for the best.

Patience is the best advice I can give. Look at Saturn and wait. The seeing can "pop in" for a second or a minute, even when overall seeing is bad to horrid. When it does, you'll know it, and probably remember it for a long time. 8)

[markenroj]

i have the same scope as you saturn is very small i can see ring goin round globe but thats it no shadows or seperate rings cos the image is to small i can see three moons i tried a cheap sr4mm ep image was slightly bigger but was not as clear some decent eps might be an idea.

[algol]

i think my saturn probs may have been over eagerness and not allowing things to cool down, even through hazy cloud the other night it appeared creamy and crisp.

so think i'm doing something right at least lol.

now to get venus and mercury.

[Vega]

There's no correlation between twinkling stars and the quality of seeing. Twinkling effects can be local or high altitude and have minimal or dramatic effect. All you can do is point your scope at something and find out. When there's a slight breeze at the surface, it can improve seeing, but this can change if upper layers move differently, (as they often do). It also depends on the physical size of the air cells at any given altitude. As our atmosphere is a fluid, all the laws of fluid dynamics are at play, along with densities, temperature and turbulence. It's not an exact science, so all you can do is point, look, and hope for the best.

I stand corrected on the twinkling stars... with regard to wind, I was refering to the effects on equipment (wobbling the telescope tube and the like), not the atmosphere .

Matt

[algol]

i'm pretty good with regards to win dmatt, as my fave observing point is right next ot a 5 foot fence, and we are fenced on all sides so natural windbreakers most of the time.

[Astroman]

Sometimes when there's a Northerly or Easterly wind in the UK we get real good seeing.

My mistake on the wind, but this doesn't sound like equipment wobbles to me. No big deal, it's a common misconception about twinkle and seeing.

Just as an aside, SAC had a speaker once talk about comparing the seeing on Mauna Kea and Kitt Peak. He went on and on, covering all types of things from the jet stream over Hawai'i and southern Arizona, to the density of air at different altitudes, to venturi effects on mountain peaks and so on for an hour. I won't say no one understood a word he said, (because I did), but it was close. Most couldn't see where he was going with his talk either. But he wrapped it up nicely at the end somehow. (At least for me.) I found it fascinating, most everyone else either fell asleep or left scratching their heads.

[markenroj]

i think my saturn probs may have been over eagerness and not allowing things to cool down, even through hazy cloud the other night it appeared creamy and crisp.

so think i'm doing something right at least lol.

now to get venus and mercury.

ive just been out for 15 mins cos i saw a gap in clouds i went straight to saturn with my 6.5mm plossl and 2x barlow saturn was cool even when the clouds covered it i could still see it. ive jst bought a baader neomidyiom filter i had this on and it seemed to make my saturn image a lot sharper. great init. :wave:

[Russell Allen]

I was looking at saturn on sunday night, at about 120X it looked fantasic with a really clearly defined gap between the planet and the rings. Where the rings crossed the face of the planet was also really clear, no sign of the cassini division mind I then upped to 200X in the hope of seeing the cassini divisin but this was a step to far on the magnification for the conditions. The image was larger but less well defined. I still remember the thrill the first time I saw saturn and for me it is still the best planet to observe.

Regards

Russell Allen

[thing]

It's certainly the best of the two planets I've seen so far........ In fact on Sat night the seeing was quite good here and I saw some bands in the atmosphere for the first time. That was with a Neo filter and a number 12 combined at about x250.