Polar alignment dilemma

[Tums]

Hi All, not sure if there's a solution or not, but I'm hoping someone has some suggestions.

I've just got my hands on an HEQ5 pro synscan mount, and although I've been through the initial polar setup, using YouTube vid's and articles online. I think I'm now ready to actually get it outside, here is where my problems start, in the spot I have to set up in, I won't be able to actually see Polaris to do the alignment.

My intention is to do some AP, So I pretty sure I need it setup properly, so

Do I actually need to see Polaris through the polar scope or is there any sort of work around???

I can't really move to far from where I set up, due to LP. and I'm still not sure I'd be able to see Polaris.

Any ideas??

Many Thanks in advance. Bit of a noob question probably. But I just can't see a solution.

[jambouk]

Depending on the version of firmware you have on the handset... There is an alignment routine called polar align, which allows you to do polar alignment without seeing polaris. It takes some thinking about and stuff, but works well. If you are not used to polar aligning, i would suggest setting up the conventional way with the polar scope first to get the hang of it, even if this means in a location which might not be ideal but which allows you to see polaris. Then when you have the hang of that, go to your chosen location and try with the handset polar alignment routine without using polaris.

Ideally get with someone who is already good at this stuff as it is easier hands on.

Good luck, and it is certainly possible.

James

[richyrich_one]

Not sure about this, but if you have a camera so you could use alignmaster, that might work.

Do a very rough alignment and fine tune it with alignmaster?

All new to me to be honest.

[Tums]

O.k. Folks, I just can't seem to get my head around this polar alignment, and have packed up for tonight, very frustrated Grr!!,

I realise to some of you,these seem simple issues, but for me, I just don't get it. (Maybe I'm stupider than I think ). Lots of Noob stuff coming up, prepare for a laugh

Oh yeh, I have actually moved to a location where I can see Polaris.

On my HEQ5 Pro synscan, one of the tripod legs has a 'N' label on it, which I'm taking to mean that that leg needs to be pointing 'North' ?

When I first went out tonight, it was still light -ish, and through the polar scope I can see the graphic in a white light with no trouble. So I went through the routine of releasing the RA clutch, and turning it until the little circle was at the bottom.

Then I set the date/time on the setting circles. Here's another question, what date/time should I be setting?? The current time or using polarfinder pro, the last transit time,or the next transit time.

Now the polar scope has a focuser on it, but when I turn that ,the whole Polaris graphic turns as well, should it?? (I don't think so)

So I've turned the focuser until it's tight, then moved the RA, again to get the small circle to the bottom again.

So date/time is set, little circle at the bottom, by now it's getting dark, and when I look through the polar scope, I can't see anything at all!!!, I turn the power on , and can now see the graphic lit up orange, but no stars, surely I should be able to see the starry sky, as if I was looking through a finder scope??.

If I turn the handset on ( firmware 3.35), it goes through the setup routine , and at the end gives 2 polar settings, then goes to do the 3 star alignment, but it miles away from where it should be.

Any help would be gratefully recieved.

I'm trying to get to my local club,but it keeps falling when I'm working Grr!!

[richyrich_one]

Have you are taken the polar scope end cap off and rotated the dec shaft so you can see through with the polar scope?

Also in the setup menu under utility I think, set the polar scope led to 2%.

[jambouk]

Tums, these are not stupid questions at all; they are very common questions when people first try and polar align, i asked the same (and more) when i was starting out.

There are lots of threads on here from people who have asked similar questions, some with excellent and lengthy replies. Have a good look through the forums to see if you can find similar questions/answers.

With the HEQ5 i wouldn't bother with the setting circles, just ignore those start with.

If you can't find any old threads and no one else chips in, i'd be happy to talk it through with you on the phone as there is so much to get your head around it is easier person to person than in text format.

Feeling utterly frustrated is normal when starting out; it continues though

James

[Tums]

Yep , caps are off, Will check. Dec, but thought I was ok with that. As far as turning the polar scope LED Down, I have seen the item in the menu,but when I enter it , it says ' not available on this scope' or something like that.

[Tums]

Tums, these are not stupid questions at all; they are very common questions when people first try and polar align, i asked the same (and more) when i was starting out.

There are lots of threads on here from people who have asked similar questions, some with excellent and lengthy replies. Have a good look through the forums to see if you can find similar questions/answers.

With the HEQ5 i wouldn't bother with the setting circles, just ignore those start with.

If you can't find any old threads and no one else chips in, i'd be happy to talk it through with you on the phone as there is so much to get your head around it is easier person to person than in text format.

Feeling utterly frustrated is normal when starting out; it continues though

James

James, Thank You for the offer, I may take you up on it. Going to have a go again today, see if I can get it right. Will be in touch if all else fails.

Now going thread searching.

[jambouk]

If you are near nottingham, you are welcome to bring it over. Else i am more than happy to talk on the phone. It is so much easier with someone who semi-knows what they are doing.; that's how i learnt and how i've taught others.

[jambouk]

I'm having a look too:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/212326-polar-scope-problems/

JD

[jambouk]

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/211238-heq5-polar-alignment-question/

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/210351-polar-scope-tube-blocked/

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/209493-polarfinder-calibration/

[jambouk]

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/200358-polar-scope-alignment/

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/198815-neq6-polar-scope-reticule-orientation/    (ignore the fact it's a 6, similar to the 5)

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/197798-heq5-pro-polar-scope-troubles/

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/195508-heq5-pro-polarscope/

[jambouk]

Some reading above for you

JD

[jambouk]

And some Google hits:

http://www.togastro.com/ozzzy/psalign.html

http://www.astro-baby.com/HEQ5/HEQ5-1.htm

JD

[Tums]

JD, your a star, lol. Thanks for all the links.

[Owmuchonomy]

As Jambouk says above. It takes a while to get used to the firmware but once you've got it, it then works every time. I urge you to practice where you can see Polaris initially as suggested. After that it is possible to align accurately without Polaris using the 2 star polar align programme. Don't use the 3 star; this is primarily for cone error. I would accept Jambouk offer for a talk through or if not I'd be willing to do it on iChat. If you happen to be near Ripon (unlikely) you can come over.

[jambouk]

Interesting you say don't do the handset routine after 3 star alignment... My first experiments with handset polar alignment were after 3 star alignment and the results were astoundingly awful; i also then had quite a lot of cone error. I now have much less cone error and have done the routine with a two star alignment using two stars on the same side of the meridian, and the results are wonderful.

Tums - don't worry about cone error yet. Get polar alignment straight in your head first. It is dead easy once you know what it's all about.

Jd

[Owmuchonomy]

Interesting you say don't do the handset routine after 3 star alignment... My first experiments with handset polar alignment were after 3 star alignment and the results were astoundingly awful; i also then had quite a lot of cone error. I now have much less cone error and have done the routine with a two star alignment using two stars on the same side of the meridian, and the results are wonderful.

Tums - don't worry about cone error yet. Get polar alignment straight in your head first. It is dead easy once you know what it's all about.

Jd

Correct. I think it may have been me that passed the tip on but then I've done that several times to folk on here.

[Tums]

Obviously more to do a bit later . But for the moment,I've been swatting up, and following some of the article, and for the first time , as I do the alignment process, it actually slews the scope in the right direction. So I must have done something right. lol

I'll see if I can actually get Polaris in the polar scope later. Thanks again for all the info.

I'll let you all know what's happening.

[Tums]

Well still not sorted , getting fed up

Went out tonight with high hopes, set up mount, got it level ,lined up facing North. When the stars began to appear,I was in position ready for polaris, turned RA & DEC, could see Polaris fine through the polar scope, altered the bolts and got polaris smack in the middle of the little circle.

Then went through setup, date/time , lat/long, daylight saving, the last 2 things are polaris settings.

Went to do a 3 star AlignmentAlignment, handset says Arcturus, mount starts slewing, in completely the wrong direction. Noooooooooooooooo!!!

So. My questions tonight are , once I have polaris in that small circle, why should I do then??. And what about those Polaris settings as you go through the Setup ?? what should I be doing with those numbers, anything???

Sorry if it seems daft, but I really want to crack this.

[richyrich_one]

The polaris settings tell you how far you need to rotate the RA axis to get the small polaris circle in the right position on the "clock". Then you adjust the RA and DEC bolts to get polaris in the little circle.

The fist star in the alignment procedure will be a bit off but as you adjust to get it central it learns where its pointing more accurately.

Don't give up!

[jambouk]

Yes don't give up. You will have evenings of this sort of frustration for years to come as you try different kit or techniques. I'm sure damian peach still has evenings when he feels like throwing it all in a skip

[jambouk]

Don't confuse RA and dec with the knobs to adjust elevation and azimuth. Only use the elevation and azimuth knobs to centre polaris in the small circle.

Once centred, never touch these knobs again that night.

Once centred you can then do what you like with the RA and declination axes, the mount will stay polar aligned, altering these two axes only allows the telescope to change where it is looking, the polar alignment stays true, as long as you don't kick the tripod too much or adjust the elevation and azimuth knobs.

[jambouk]

Before you select the first star in the star alignment routine, the hand set needs to know it is starting from a standardised position; the home position. So, the weights should be pointing directly to the ground, and the scope pointing at polaris. It doesn't matter if you can't see polaris when looking through the scope, but you want it pointing in roughly that direction. This is the home position (look for images of it on line). Once you are in the home position, you can select your first star. It will hopefully move the scope to roughly the right position; it's often off by a few degrees but that is normal. Adjust the position with the handset to centre the first star, then go for the second, and that will be much more accurate. Hey presto!

The other thing to make sure is that you are inputting the initial data correctly into the handset; the date format is american, lat and longitude confuse people, time, day light saving... Again you can go through these with a fine tooth comb in the day tine to check you have it all correct and again lots on the internet about how to input these correctly.

You will get there, don't worry.

Again, any other questions just post them up and we can see if we can help.

James

[jambouk]

What you can do, is to set it up today, even indoors if you want, input the data for the same time as you set up last night, and use he information above, and just roughly point the mount north, then get into the home position, then star your star alignment. You will know roughly where the first stat should be (if it was night time) and you can tell if the scope is slewing to roughly the right position. You have to just inagine you are outside and it is dark and that you can see stars; sounds a bit crazy but it will tell you if the above is going to help. Much easier to do some things in the day light when its warmer and you can see what you are doing and allows you to ask more questions to get it sorted before night fall.

Jd