Help me! First time PHD - ASi120MM & ST80 on ED80/HEQ5

[Fordos Moon]

Desperate need some help please! I tried guiding for the first time last night.

In order to test the system I chose my targets as "M13" (two stars close by for guiding?) and "Vega" (just to see something on the PHD screen). I had no success.

I tried PHD for the first time using my ASi120MM connected to an ST80, directly connected on top of the ED80 like this: 

I opened PHD (intention is to use it with BYE) hit the camera option. No ASi option but it highlighted this:

So I selected it. I then went up to the top menu and selected Mount, and the direct camera option at the bottom. if I hit the "connect to scope" icon it said failure and ASI popped up on the bottom toolbar and it appeared self-connected via the option I chose under "Mount".

Next I selected the loop button.

The first attempt gave me this:

and a further attempt this:

I played around with the options at the bottom but alas no success.

Any step by step guide on how to use this set-up, or obvious things I've messed up with would be most appreciated!!

[glowingturnip]

sounds like you've got several issues...

I don't know your camera, but to check if it's working, trying taking it out of the guidescope and pointing it in the direction of something bright (laptop screen will usually do), if the camera is talking to PHD then you'll see the picture change.  Can also check it in the daytime looking at a distant object of course.  If so, then that's a good thing, and the most likely reason it didn't work for you before is probably focus - focus is key, even slightly out of focus and you won't see anything but noise on the phd screen, but when you do get focus, you'll unmistakeably have a star (especially something like vega).  It's worthwhile taking the time in the daytime to get the camera focussed on something in the distance and then finding a parfocal setting for an eyepiece, so that at nighttime you can then find and focus on a star with your parfocal eyepiece, then swap the camera in and hopefully see the star straight off.

Not being able to connect to the mount is another problem, and that varies from mount to mount.  I plug mine in via an RS232 adaptor into the port on the bottom of the synscan handset itself.  Needs to have ASCOM drivers and the RS232 adaptor driver installed.  There are other ways of connecting to a mount as well, which I don't know, but maybe others can help you, you'll almost certainly need the ASCOM drivers in any case.  

The good news is that you can fiddle around with this, and with your camera in the daytime to get them working, to avoid another wasted evening.

Lastly, you've got PHD1 there, download PHD2, it's got the same functionality but lots of other bells and whistles, I used it for the first time in my last session and was very pleased with it - http://adgsoftware.com/phd2/

[Thalestris24]

Hi

Firstly, I would make sure the ASI is working ok during the day. That way you can focus on a distant object so then it will only need a slight adjustment to refocus on stars. Maybe try Firecapture for that. It looks like ZWO recommend the WDM driver. They explain how to set it up with PHD guiding in the manual: http://www.zwoptical.com/software/ASI%20Camera%20user%20guide.pdf

Secondly, once you are up and running, I would then recommend using the PHD2 version of PHD guiding, but keep it simple for now

It's helpful to take darks as prompted by PHD/2.

hth

Louise

Edit: Also make sure your guide camera is aligned with your imaging scope - again, doing this during the day makes it easier.

[Lonestar70]

Hi,

It looks like your camera has connected itself via the standard capture programme supplied on the installation disc.

You may need to download additional drivers to work with PHD.

There is a good section in the attached document on using this camera with PHD guiding which also suggests which drivers are required.

I agree it would be better to use the latest PHD2.

If you are not using EQMOD then you also need to connect the cameras ST4 guideport  to the mounts guide input via the ST4 cable and select ON CAMERA for guiding.

For EQMOD use, you have the choice between PULSE GUIDING (USB CONNECTION ONLY) or ON CAMERA using the ST4 connection to the mount and USB back to the PC.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Sandy.

ASI%20Camera%20user%20guide.pdf

[lensman57]

Hi,

Assuming that you have installed all the drivers  and the ASI driver is up to date and working corretly ( which I think it may not be ), after having selected  the  WDM webcam style under PHD you must get another pop up window  with the ASI 120MM or MC depending on your  camera,  listed, you then select the correct camera and click then you get another pop up window with all the available resolutions listed, 640 X 480 bin 1x1 is the one to go for. As you seem not to get the pop up windows it tells me that the drivers are not installed correctly. you can verify this by using the camera first either using the free fire capture or Sharp cap during the daytime  ( even AmCap  will do ) using the micro lens that came with your  camera if you wish to get an image. If all is good then the issue is the PHD, uninstall and then reinstall PHD . You should also make sure that if using windows XP the same USB port that was used when installing and configuring the drivers is used to connect the camera. I have had several similar issues with ASI and PHD but it is all to do with the way PHD communicates with the ASI drivers. test the camera on a bright star before guiding to the target to make sure that all is OK. Hope that this helps and oyu sort the problems out.

A.G

[Fordos Moon]

Thank you all so much for the advice. I have used it and discovered a couple of schoolboy errors which I think I have corrected (will download PHD2 in a min).

Firstly using the top of a tree I have aligned both scopes. Here are the images through the ED80, and through the ASI camera. How aligned do they need to be? Is this close enough? (you can see the "bird" shaped end of branch just to the right of centre of the top image). Without guide scope rings I can only move it within the standard rings by tightening and loosening front and back.

Through ED80:

Through ASI:

The second thing I have done is installed the ASCOM, ST4 etc drivers from the ZWO disk. I then opened PHD, made my selections (don't have the ASI one yet perhaps this is in PHD2 but it auto selected it anyway) - it told me it was "ready to guide".

Am I doing okay?

[Thalestris24]

Hi

I think that should be ok. I doubt that the PHD/2 authors will add camera specific drivers when ascom drivers are available.  I'm fairly sure PHD2 has taken over now and, no it doesn't list ZWO cameras.

You will probably find it useful to read through the PHD/2 online support info before you try a guiding session. It's usually recommended to use eqmod pulse guiding rather than ST4 but it's up to you. Remember to select 'on camera' for mount with ST4. There is also a very useful guide on here:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/188777-phd-guiding-basic-use-and-troubleshooting/?hl=+phd +troubleshooting

Good luck

Louise

[lensman57]

Thank you all so much for the advice. I have used it and discovered a couple of schoolboy errors which I think I have corrected (will download PHD2 in a min).

Firstly using the top of a tree I have aligned both scopes. Here are the images through the ED80, and through the ASI camera. How aligned do they need to be? Is this close enough? (you can see the "bird" shaped end of branch just to the right of centre of the top image). Without guide scope rings I can only move it within the standard rings by tightening and loosening front and back.

Through ED80:

phd6.JPG

Through ASI:

phd7.JPG

The second thing I have done is installed the ASCOM, ST4 etc drivers from the ZWO disk. I then opened PHD, made my selections (don't have the ASI one yet perhaps this is in PHD2 but it auto selected it anyway) - it told me it was "ready to guide".

Am I doing okay?

Good, the guide scope does not need to be aligned with the imaging scope  as long as it is pointing in the same direction and can pick a suitable guide star it will do the job, unless you are using it a finder scope too which is a different matter. Just make sure that the guide star is not too saturated and it is not at the edge of the PHD frame as this will may interfere with the calibration process.

A.G

[Fordos Moon]

Thanks guys - will let you know soon as I've true again!

[Fordos Moon]

Okay guys I am making progress. I managed to achieve focus with my ASI120MM by using a 2.5x barlow tube (no lens) and a small extension like this:

And by trial and error the following options worked:

I had to select a 10s duration in order to pick stars but some appeared.

So following the "impatient instructions in PHD2" I selected a star with a high SN ratio:

But then nothing really noticeable happened? I went to BackYard EOS and tried 180 and 300 sec exposures and whilst no where near as long star trails as without PHD their still was some? I did attach my DSLR on top of the scopes to try a widefield image of 300 seconds and that came out with perfectly round stars so PHD must be working at that low "zoom" (cant think of right word). But when imaging M13 there were star trails?

Any advice appreciated guys if you have time please!

Oh, I opened up the graph in PHD and nothing seemed to be happening?

[Thalestris24]

Hi

Are you using the ST4 port for mount control? Did you select 'on camera' for mount in PHD2? Have you connected a cable between the camera and mount?

It sounds like you are not talking to the mount...

Louise

[Thalestris24]

This might help:

http://openphdguiding.org/man/Basic_use.htm

[Davey-T]

Have you enabled the log  option ? this will show you what, if anything is happening and maybe some error messages.

Dave 

[Thalestris24]

Um, not sure there is any log output until calibration is underway... there's no graph until calibration completes

I've only ever looked at logs post-calibration so not 100% sure

[Fordos Moon]

Hi

Are you using the ST4 port for mount control? Did you select 'on camera' for mount in PHD2? Have you connected a cable between the camera and mount?

It sounds like you are not talking to the mount...

Louise

yes I did Louise and it says mount connected

[Fordos Moon]

Have you enabled the log option ? this will show you what, if anything is happening and maybe some error messages.

Dave

i didn't but I will next time thanks Dave

[Fordos Moon]

Um, not sure there is any log output until calibration is underway... there's no graph until calibration completes

I've only ever looked at logs post-calibration so not 100% sure

Thanks Louise how long do I wait for calibration to take place? Does this happen automatically when I select a star and then hit the target icon?

[Thalestris24]

Hi

I'm just wondering exactly which Heq5 mount you have - I assumed it was a pro or syntrek? I don't think the standard heq5 has an st4 port?

Louise

[lensman57]

Hi,

I am concerned as to why u need a 10s exposure to pick any stars at that exposure loop value,PHD has to wait until a new image has been downloaded before a correction command is sent, 10s is far too long, at even the darkest  part of the sky a 1~2s  exposure at 70 gain will pick up even the   faintest of the stars. You need to be able to access the driver and make sure that the gain value is about 70 mark from within PHD or PHD2. Have you checked the camera to verify that it is working properly during daytime?  I have posted some screenshots of the camera and the settings with PHD that I just took. As I pointed the 60mm guidescope out of the window and into the dark cloudy sky the capture went whiteat just 1s exposure loop, the rest are with the lenscap on. Hope this helps.

Regards,

A.G

[Davey-T]

Did you take a dark first, this sometimes helps prize stars out of the background.

I think the first line in the log is usually "calibration begun" so at least you can see if it's trying to calibrate.

Have you tried using the manual commands to see if guide commands are getting to the mount ? you should be able to hear the motors reacting, probably won't see the mount move unless you mount a laser pointer on it.

Dave

[Fordos Moon]

Hi

I'm just wondering exactly which Heq5 mount you have - I assumed it was a pro or syntrek? I don't think the standard heq5 has an st4 port?

Louise

yes Pro and it's plugged in the guider port

[Fordos Moon]

Hi,

I am concerned as to why u need a 10s exposure to pick any stars at that exposure loop value,PHD has to wait until a new image has been downloaded before a correction command is sent, 10s is far too long, at even the darkest part of the sky a 1~2s exposure at 70 gain will pick up even the faintest of the stars. You need to be able to access the driver and make sure that the gain value is about 70 mark from within PHD or PHD2. Have you checked the camera to verify that it is working properly during daytime? I have posted some screenshots of the camera and the settings with PHD that I just took. As I pointed the 60mm guidescope out of the window and into the dark cloudy sky the capture went whiteat just 1s exposure loop, the rest are with the lenscap on. Hope this helps.

Regards,

A.G

Thanks A.G yes camera defo ok, very white screen when point light a it and imaged the top of a tree miles away when I tested it.

Will check gain next time too.

I tried 2-3 secs and nothing on screen so in desperation tried other expos and 10 sec gave me some stars on screen. Thought it too long myself but after hours of seeing a black screen was excited to see stars!

[Fordos Moon]

Did you take a dark first, this sometimes helps prize stars out of the background.

I think the first line in the log is usually "calibration begun" so at least you can see if it's trying to calibrate.

Have you tried using the manual commands to see if guide commands are getting to the mount ? you should be able to hear the motors reacting, probably won't see the mount move unless you mount a laser pointer on it.

Dave

Thanks Dave. I did take a dark a couple of times when trying all things, it took five which I assumed was norm but then when I used the "impatient help" it didn't mention them. But can see how that might help

With seeing stars at 2-3 sec exposures now.

I did try manual commands too and yes defo heard motors whir but nothing happened on screen to tell me why I was doing what I was doing was actually doing anything? If that makes sense.

Hard to accept I am thicker than a dummy!

[Fordos Moon]

Hi,

I am concerned as to why u need a 10s exposure to pick any stars at that exposure loop value,PHD has to wait until a new image has been downloaded before a correction command is sent, 10s is far too long, at even the darkest part of the sky a 1~2s exposure at 70 gain will pick up even the faintest of the stars. You need to be able to access the driver and make sure that the gain value is about 70 mark from within PHD or PHD2. Have you checked the camera to verify that it is working properly during daytime? I have posted some screenshots of the camera and the settings with PHD that I just took. As I pointed the 60mm guidescope out of the window and into the dark cloudy sky the capture went whiteat just 1s exposure loop, the rest are with the lenscap on. Hope this helps.

Regards,

A.G

One thing I would add is I don't get the drop down menu to select the ASi cam but it seems to connect to it anyway as it states so at the bottom of the screen?

[Thalestris24]

Hi

The calibration should start straightaway providing it's happy with the star. How long it takes depend on the settings you give it, to some extent. With my finderguider it does about 10 steps in each direction. A 2s exposure is usually ok. Click on the brain icon to enter your guide scope and cam settings. Having said that, I'm only familiar with pulse guiding so I'm not sure if it's different for ST4. You can always play about with the simulator options to learn how it all behaves.

Louise