deep space imager for Celestron 8SE scope

[alcol620]

Hi folks

Have now got the bug and would like advice on an imager (webcam type) to use on my Celestron 8SE scope that will provide me with good quality images of deep space objects. Cost is an issue. I wouldn't want to spend too many hundreds of pounds on the imager. Currently have an imager as seen at  http://www.ebay.co.u...ME:L:OC:GB:3160. Being new to all this I am assuming that my current imager is inadequate when it comes to deep space objects?

Advice much appreciated.

[oldpink]

you may get the odd one or two larger brighter DSO's with that camera

but for any realistic DSO you need to go down the CCD / DSLR route as you want long exposures and a bigger chip size

[Scott]

Hi alcol620,

Your budget of "not too many hundred" is a bit ambiguous.. If your talking under £500 then you'd probably be best looking at a dslr or even a modified one. under £1000  then I'd be looking at 2nd hand (baring in mind you'll need filters if you go for mono.) from there you're looking at around £1500 for a new ccd with filters. you'll also need an eq mount and quite a good one if you plan on imaging with a 2000mm fl and guiding will be needed. I'd seriously concider reading making every photon count before spending any hard earned money...it could save you a fortune

[alcol620]

To be more specific £350 would be about maximum.

[davedownsouth]

I would more question how good the 8SE would be at taking DSO images.  I have used mine for imagining planets & the moon, which it is excellent at, but this is very easy as I am running in video mode so very short exposure times.  I seriously doubt if it would be upto taking more than a 10 second exposure without the scope shaking / losing tracking in some way.   Do you have yours on a modified mount or something?

[alcol620]

davedownsouth

no it is mounted on the tripod it came with. As a matter of interest what webcam/set up do you use for getting excellent planets and moon. I am still trying to get well focused shots of jupiter, see my other posts

[GuillermoBarrancos]

There is no wedge for the 8se due to the single fork mount.

Also, the 8inch OTA is a little oversized for the se mount. So it would not be stable enough anyway for long exposure imaging.

The 8 inch SCT on the se mount is however excellent for planetary imaging.

A good and very affordable planetary camera is the QHY5L-IIc.

[davedownsouth]

davedownsouth

no it is mounted on the tripod it came with. As a matter of interest what webcam/set up do you use for getting excellent planets and moon. I am still trying to get well focused shots of jupiter, see my other posts

My camera is an i-Nova PLb-Mx Planetary mono camera and I use a filter wheel with a RGB Filter set for photos of Jupiter (not properly tried any other planets yet).  This camera is probably a bit OTT for what I am using it for, but it does give a nice image of Jupiter, not that I have had many night to go out a practise.  I am really hoping we get a clear night over the coming Bank holiday weekend so I can go and try Saturn, but the forcast keeps switching from okayish, to rain .  Here is a set of four images (well, twelve images I guess as they are 4 x RGB images) I managed on my one really clear night (16th April).  Each of the 12 images was obtained by taking a video clip for 90 seconds, I got about 800 frames in the 90 seconds, I used Registax 6 and kept the top 20%.  Combining the RGB images took me ages too work out how to do; and I would still be at it if it wasn't for help on this great forum .  I was really please with these, and I hope to get some more soon.

[davedownsouth]

NB.  Forgot to say that I also had a 2x Barlow for the above images and focusing was pretty tricky.  I think I only got what I got because the seeing conditions were so good.

[oldpink]

really nice image, I never get viewing that good

[GuillermoBarrancos]

really nice image, I never get viewing that good

That's the trick with planetary imaging With a planetary camera. You record a video at high framerate and collect a couple thousand frames (or sometimes even more) in a short time.

Then a stacking program will discard the bad frames and stack the good ones. The end result will be a drastically improved image.

Ofcourse there are some more parameters and extra Processing involved (lots of tutorials to be found), but just to give you a quick easy rundown on planetary imaging.

[alcol620]

Thanks for your input folks, all very helpful.

From these inputs am I to conclude that I should forget about trying to get DSOs with my current setup?

As I said I am very new to this hobby. Can you explain why my set up is not stable enough for trying to get DSOs?

Thanks again

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Thanks for your input folks, all very helpful.

From these inputs am I to conclude that I should forget about trying to get DSOs with my current setup?

As I said I am very new to this hobby. Can you explain why my set up is not stable enough for trying to get DSOs?

Thanks again

First. The se Mount is an Alt-Az Mount. To do long exposures With DSO imaging you need an EQ Mount.

What I mean with unstable, is that even if the 8se had a wedge option, it would be very unstable With that tripod and the Scope being attached to a single fork. So the Scope would end up wobbling, especially with a bit of wind. Ruining your exposures.

Just have a look at for example the CPC800 Scope. Then you see the difference. That one has a very bulky oversized dualfork Mount to keep the OTA firmly in Place, even when used with a wedge. But that comes at quite a price difference.

Tho, like I said. All is not lost!  For planetary imaging the 8se Scope is very Nice and most sertainly capable!  As With planetary imaging you take lots of frames really quick and so Earth rotation doesn't play a role.

[Grotemobile]

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/celestron-skyris/celestron-neximage-solar-system-imager.html

How about something like this.

Looks very good.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/celestron-skyris/celestron-neximage-5.html

A lot of people seem to use these

& get good results.Gives you some

idear what is around.

Steve.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/celestron-skyris/celestron-neximage-solar-system-imager.html

How about something like this.

Looks very good.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/celestron-skyris/celestron-neximage-5.html

A lot of people seem to use these

& get good results.Gives you some

idear what is around.

Steve.

The old Nexstar Image was terrible. It's basically just an overpriced webcam in a different housing.

I don't know about the Nexstar Image 5. It looks at least like an actual planetary imager and more capable at least.

Tho I would still rather go for either a QHY5L-II or ASI120 when on a budget. Those are proven cameras that have shown excellent results with both imaging and guiding.

[Grotemobile]

http://www.zwoptical.com/eng/Cameras/ASI120/index.asp

I persume this is the camera you mean.

A lot of people on here seem to be

using them now.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

http://www.zwoptical.com/eng/Cameras/ASI120/index.asp

I persume this is the camera you mean.

A lot of people on here seem to be

using them now.

Yes tho in UK (and rest of europe) the QHY5L-II (color and mono and using same sensor as ASI120) are lower priced and thus better bang for buck.

The narrow 1.25" barrel body of the QHY5L-II is also nice, when using it as a guider, especially with OAG.

[alcol620]

GuillermoBarrancos Thanks, looked at the scope you mentioned, looks rather sturdier.  Presumably on a still night with good seeing, I might be able to get images of DSOs with the kit I have?

Thanks to all for all the useful advice.

Off to check the balance my scope and the slew rate settings, which up until now I had overlooked. I did say I was new to this hobby.

[Scott]

GuillermoBarrancos Thanks, looked at the scope you mentioned, looks rather sturdier.  Presumably on a still night with good seeing, I might be able to get images of DSOs with the kit I have?

Thanks to all for all the useful advice.

Off to check the balance my scope and the slew rate settings, which up until now I had overlooked. I did say I was new to this hobby.

not unless you either get a wedge for your mount or an eq mount. Many VERY good imagers with far more experience than you and me would not dream of attempting imaging with a 2000mm focal length, especially on a n alt/az mount. once again I'll say, get the book BEFORE you spend a penny on AP.

[alcol620]

Thanks. Will get the book.

[alcol620]

Ha s any one ever got any decent DSOs images using a 8SE Celestron scope?

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Ha s any one ever got any decent DSOs images using a 8SE Celestron scope?

I hate to keep repeating it. The 8SE is a fine Scope, it is just NOT suited for DSO imaging.

Unless you unfork the OTA, buy a HEQ5 Pro or Advanced VX Mount and put the OTA on there. But then you are facing the Incredible challenge of imaging at 2meters of focal length! Let's just not go there as beginner!

The only imaging you can do with the 8SE is Solar (With solar filter!!) / Lunar / Planetary imaging with a planetary camera.

You just have to accept the strengths of your scope and more importantly it's limitations.

If you really want to get into DSO imaging. Buy the book "Make every photon Count" as has been recommended, read it and you'll start understanding the why's and won'ts.

Then start saving up! As DSO imaging ain't cheap! There are no shortcuts!

[davedownsouth]

I was out imaging Saturn with my 8SE last night and although I have never tried it, I have to agree with GB above over the chances of doing DSO with it.  There was virtually no wind last night and I was taking 2 minute videos of Saturn.  The scope was behaving very well, but of the 21, two minute videos I took, perhaps only in one or two did Saturn stay near the point where it was when I started the video running, and by near I mean I was prepared to start the next video without re-centering the planet.  I still do not think that I would be able to manage >5 second exposure and get a good image, but maybe I am just Rubbish at setting the scope up and in 2 years time I will be recanting these words

[alcol620]

Hi  GuillermoBarrancos

Thanks again. Since being recommended the book, I ordered it and it arrived yesterday morning. Incredibly quick service from Steve Richards. Having read about 70% of it, I wouldn't claim to understand a lot of the detail I read, but I now realise what a complex field DSO imaging is and the amount of kit required. I have come to the conclusion that I will not be undertaking DSO imaging any time soon. Hey ho, I will just have to look at them through the 8SE and be happy with that.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Hi  GuillermoBarrancos

Thanks again. Since being recommended the book, I ordered it and it arrived yesterday morning. Incredibly quick service from Steve Richards. Having read about 70% of it, I wouldn't claim to understand a lot of the detail I read, but I now realise what a complex field DSO imaging is and the amount of kit required. I have come to the conclusion that I will not be undertaking DSO imaging any time soon. Hey ho, I will just have to look at them through the 8SE and be happy with that.

Why not buy a Planetary camera (like the QHY5L-II) and start out With that?

When you get the hang of that, you will be able to create very nice images of the planets and the moon (and the sun's spots in white light With solar filter).

There are plenty of People, who do nothing but planetary imaging and greatly enjoying it!

Just have a look here: http://www.damianpeach.com/

He is counted as one of the best amateur planetary imagers in the world. It's his primary interest. A great source of inspiration for many!