Good amateur rig for AP?

[webdr]

Hi everyone, complete newb to the forum and hobby, but I have been wanting to get into astrophotography for years. I've done a bit of AP with my DSLR, but I really want to get into deep field photography and take pics of NGC and Messier objects and such. I have done some research and came up with this combo:

Meade Series 6000 115 APO

Orion Atlas EQ-G

Ive heard decent reports from the Meade, but Ive also heard there are comparable APO's that cost less...

I also hear that Ill need a field flattener with the Meade. I have a Canon 50D, what mount do I need to hook it up.

Additionally, will I be able to attach a laptop and control the Atlas?

Thanks in advance.

Matt

[webdr]

Sorry, bad link on the Atlas EQ-G

[DaveS]

OK, at the risk of sounding like the proverbial broken record, get a copy of "Making every photon count" by Steve Richards, "Steppenwolf" of this forum. Read it at least twice and ask plenty of questions. Remember, the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask.

I will also say that any AP rig starts with the mount. Buy the best you can afford, then worry about the 'scope. Plenty of brilliant photos shot on ED 80 'scopes, but they're mounted on serious equatorials costing maybe two or three time as much as the scope.

Oh, and did I say read "Making every photon count"?

Whatever you don't rush to spend your money, what's up there isn't going anywhere fast.

I'm sure more knowledgeable people than I will be along with more detailed info.

Oh, yes, in case I didn't mention it, read "Making every photon count"

Edit

The Orion Atlas, as we know it the Skywatcher NEQ6 is a pretty good starting point.

[happy-kat]

Hi

Given I think are you in the US? Maybe it might be harder to buy the book suggested.

Do you also want to look visually with your scope?

[webdr]

Do you also want to look visually with your scope?

That's a great question. Im a photographer, I've owed an aerial photography business since 2008. I write reviews for radio controlled airplane magazines and take lots of photos. So naturally, I want the best imaging style of telescope to produce clear pictures. I mean, don't get me wrong, being able to show my friends and family what's through the scope without sitting there for hours during an exposure would be nice, but the sharp photography aspect takes precedence.

Can I still use an apochromatic refractor for occasional viewing? It would be used for AP 95% of the time.

[ronin]

You can use the scope for visual quite happily.

The mount being a goto should be OK to attach a laptop to it and control thngs, you will need some software but I think many are free.

The scope should be good, a flattener will be required for the DSLR, the chip is simply too big and you get curvature. At f/7 it may be a bit too fast but often a flattener is a combined reducer+flatener so you may end up reducing it anyway.

I do not know what softwre is required for the Orion mount and a laptop. It LOOKS like the EQ5 or similar here but what the actual software is I cannot say.

Check the loading of the mount and the weight of the scope, the general rule is keep the weight to 1/2 to 2/3 of the mount capacity.

To attach the Canon you need a T-Ring.

Canon do supply software so you may be able to use that to control the camera, otherwise I suggest you get on Amazon and buy a remote timer (made by Shoot) if you do not already have one. You simply set them to take say 25 images at 30 seconds each with a de;ay of say 20 seconds between each. Then let it get on with it.

Darks, Lights and the other assorted aspects I leave to you. Likely easy to start only with Darks. Once mastered add in the next option.

Alternatives, possibly a William Optics for the scope, a WO GTF-102 is about the same cost. It does have a built in flatener - thats the F bit in GTF. Remembered that ES have a few good triplets available at present - could be worth checking.

Alternative mounts, the only one I can think of is the iOptron range that I know is in the US and is here. Subtly different equipment either side. The iOptron is a bit more up-to-date but I think the cost is no less, possibly more for a similar weight capacity.

[ollypenrice]

The rig you propose is good. I've used it myself very happily. The scope will need a flattener which came as standard on the version I tried. However, it is quite slow at F7 and has a fairly long focal length. Many of the objects in the catalogues are pretty large and may not fit on the chip at that FL. Also DSLR cameras are not as sensitive as CCD astro cameras and really thrive on fast F ratios. When you see a 'CCD quality' DSLR image it usually turns out to have come from something faster than F5. DSLRs also have tiny pixels and cannot be binned 2X2 so keeping the focal length down is an advantage. All of these considerations point in the same direction - towards something shorter and faster. Here's an image from the 115 with a one shot colour CCD.

http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Nebulae-and-clusters/i-pMwXtqv/0/X3/Alair%20HH%204%20HRSstarcolour-X3.jpg

I don't know how the price works out for you in the States but Telescope Service do a 100mm quadruplet, a budget variant on the Takahashi FSQ theme. http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p6478_TS-100mm-f-5-8-Quadruplet-APO-Astrograph---FPL-53-APO-Objektiv---100-580mm.html

Images posted by Xplode on here have been deeply impressive. This is F5.8 and has a naturally flat field so you don't have to faff about getting the chip distance right.

Or there are quite a few affordable small fast apos or semi apo ED doublets.

You'll need an autoguider and shoter FLs are easier to guide than long, especially with small pixels (the idea being to guide sub-pixel, of course.)

Olly

http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/22435624_WLMPTM#!i=2266922474&k=Sc3kgzc

PS I think your choice of mount is good. The only thing is that under the Skywatcher brand you can have the newer AZ EQ version with improved polar alignment hardware and belt rather than geared primary drive, both of which are worth having.

What a pity you're in the States; if you were a bit nearer I'd love to swap an intro to AP for an intro to RC planes! I really would like to give that a try. 

[GuillermoBarrancos]

PS I think your choice of mount is good. The only thing is that under the Skywatcher brand you can have the newer AZ EQ version with improved polar alignment hardware and belt rather than geared primary drive, both of which are worth having.

There is a belt mod kit available tho.

http://www.rowanastronomy.com/productsa2.htm#heq6beltkit

[webdr]

Thanks guys for all the replies. I have a lot of reading to do still but Im getting the idea. I do have a nice intervalometer for my camera that's infinitely adjustable.

Olly, your link showed some very sharp photos. what are you using?

I guess Im still on the fence about what size APO I want. At $3000, the TS100 is about $900 above my proposed budget for a scope; I don't want to spend more than about $2100 for it. However, I don't quite understand the difference between a smaller 4" scope and a 4.5". Will a smaller scope produce the same sharpness as a larger one but the image will be smaller (assuming my budget)?

[ollypenrice]

Thanks guys for all the replies. I have a lot of reading to do still but Im getting the idea. I do have a nice intervalometer for my camera that's infinitely adjustable.

Olly, your link showed some very sharp photos. what are you using?

I guess Im still on the fence about what size APO I want. At $3000, the TS100 is about $900 above my proposed budget for a scope; I don't want to spend more than about $2100 for it. However, I don't quite understand the difference between a smaller 4" scope and a 4.5". Will a smaller scope produce the same sharpness as a larger one but the image will be smaller (assuming my budget)?

The field of view is controlled only by the focal length of scope and the size of the chip. As with lenses (which is what telescopes are) you can choose long (for a 'zoomed in' view) or short for a wide angle. Different targets need different focal lengths. Free software like Stellarium will let you model different combinations on maps of the sky. Worth a look.

Sharpness, or resolution, is a can of worms! You can think of it in terms of arcseconds per pixel (see http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fov.htm ). The fewer arcseconds you put on a pixel the better your resolution but once you go too low the atmosphere will blur out the benefits. Resolution headbangers argue for 0.5 arcsecs per pixel, atmospheric pessimists say, Don't bother with less than 2, but all agree that the fewer arcseconds of object light goes onto a pixel the longer your exposures need to be. In choosing CCD cameras you can choose pixel sizes, large or small, or you can 'bin' them 2x2 to work as larger virtual pixels. You can't do that with a DSLR so you're better to keep focal lengths down and F ratios up.

My images are taken with all sorts of stuff, always CCD and not always mine! Galaxy close ups are from a 14 inch catadioptric but the nebulae are from refractors between 85 and 140mm, so not huge. Sharpness also needs very accurate tracking and careful focus.

Olly

[GuillermoBarrancos]

The TS100Q has a shorter focal length (580mm) and will give a wider field of view. The optics are also a bit better in the TS100Q (FPL53 as to FK61 in the Meade). The TS100Q also has a build in flattener. Hence the price difference.

Don't forget you need a flattener/reducer for the Meade and good quality ones will easily set you back another $300 and also spacer accesories to reach focus with your camera, which can add another $50 easily.

Then the price difference isn't all that much anymore. Especially when you consider the better optics in the TS100Q.

[webdr]

Well you guys may think Im being hasty, but I just picked up a new ES ED127 f/7.5 for $1370. Its a blem with a small paint defect. And since its straight from ES, its full warrantied. I've read nothing but good reviews on this scope so I jumped at the good deal. It may be a bit long and slow, but I think it will suffice for my virgin eyes!

[Davey-T]

http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Nebulae-and-clusters/i-pMwXtqv/0/X3/Alair%20HH%204%20HRSstarcolour-X3.jpg

Olly

Hi Olly, did you take this with the Atik 4000 OSC ?

Dave

[happy-kat]

Just choose a mount now :-)

(Probably bit of an understatement with little extras you might buy)

[webdr]

Im going with an Orion Atlas EQ-G