Struggling to polar align

[themaninthesuitcase]

Tonight was the 2nd time out with my (tuned) EQ6 and 200P-DS and I'm still struggling to polar align accurately enough to even make it to a 30s sub.

I was following the method here http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2838 as I can't see polaris from my location (monster 20+ foot hedges on north and east sides, house on the west).  I think I was rushing it a bit using a slightly faster motor speed and shorter exposures. This methods looks to be as accurate as the time you allow for movement but it should still work for for 30s exposures and at least start you in the right direction.  However I took an image before any alignment and after and the alignment seems to have made it worse, not better.  I've added an image to show what I mean.  The trailing is clearly worse in the 2nd image.

I also had a bash at using Alignmaster but I am never sure if the star I am supposed to be looking at is the right one and even then most are also hidden behind the hedge or house.

Is there a secret technique or do I just need to practice the "DARV" technique?  I am also sure my balancing and general scope setup skills could do with refining.  I know guiding will make this a non issue but I am sure having a half decent alignment must be A Good Thing™ even when guiding.

On the plus side my finder scope is reasonably accurate to the main OTA now.

[Tim]

Hiya,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I'd just point out that guiding won't make up for bad alignment, you really need to get as many factors as close to perfect as possible, and then the guiding will just tart up the slack a little.

For an easy to follow foolproof method, try this;

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/81943-phd-drift-polar-alignment/

Cheers

Tim

[malc-c]

You could try downloading APT (astronomy photographic tool) - there is a DARV function in that which might help.  The only thing I found that makes this difficult is not having decent clear east west horizons - closer the mount is to 90 degrees from each axis the better DARV works.  If you have just a narrow section of sky then DARV may make maters worse.

[Steve Ward]

I found the DARV method very good , but you do need to do a number of shots for each axis in turn as adjusting one invariably alters the other slightly.

I ended up getting pretty decent 40-50 second subs with the Mak180 at 2700mm after a half hour session at it.

Needs redoing now as I've moved things chasing the Sun about and altered the tripod legs ... 

[Astrosurf]

I'm sure this is of no help to you, but I now only go out with my astro group to a dark site, where of course there's good all-round visibility. I know your kit is heavy but if you can find a local astro group that goes out regularly, maybe give that a try? You'll get to know polar alignment with Polaris really well. It'll save you so much of a headache and you'll have good company too! I'd be lost without my group, CNAAG, now.

Alexxx

[themaninthesuitcase]

I'm sure this is of no help to you, but I now only go out with my astro group to a dark site, where of course there's good all-round visibility. I know your kit is heavy but if you can find a local astro group that goes out regularly, maybe give that a try? You'll get to know polar alignment with Polaris really well. It'll save you so much of a headache and you'll have good company too! I'd be lost without my group, CNAAG, now.

Alexxx

Unfortunately leaving the house isn't an option due to an impending twin based doom ( which is why I've been taking up astro as wildlife photography doesn't really work when you can't leave to go see the wildlife!).  At some point I might try at my mums where I should be able to see polaris but it's not a proper solution for my situation.

[themaninthesuitcase]

I found the DARV method very good , but you do need to do a number of shots for each axis in turn as adjusting one invariably alters the other slightly.

I ended up getting pretty decent 40-50 second subs with the Mak180 at 2700mm after a half hour session at it.

Needs redoing now as I've moved things chasing the Sun about and altered the tripod legs ... 

Sounds like it's a simple case of more practice required.

[lensman57]

Tonight was the 2nd time out with my (tuned) EQ6 and 200P-DS and I'm still struggling to polar align accurately enough to even make it to a 30s sub.

I was following the method here http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2838 as I can't see polaris from my location (monster 20+ foot hedges on north and east sides, house on the west).  I think I was rushing it a bit using a slightly faster motor speed and shorter exposures. This methods looks to be as accurate as the time you allow for movement but it should still work for for 30s exposures and at least start you in the right direction.  However I took an image before any alignment and after and the alignment seems to have made it worse, not better.  I've added an image to show what I mean.  The trailing is clearly worse in the 2nd image.

CJP20131204-6952.jpg

I also had a bash at using Alignmaster but I am never sure if the star I am supposed to be looking at is the right one and even then most are also hidden behind the hedge or house.

Is there a secret technique or do I just need to practice the "DARV" technique?  I am also sure my balancing and general scope setup skills could do with refining.  I know guiding will make this a non issue but I am sure having a half decent alignment must be A Good Thing™ even when guiding.

On the plus side my finder scope is reasonably accurate to the main OTA now.

Is your mount NEQ6 or EQ5? In either case if the handset firmware the latest you then can use tpolar align routine in the alignment menu after having done a 2 or 3 star alignment,  the instructions are in the manual downloadable from SW. You really only need to point the mount towards  polaris. I think that it is worth a try.

[themaninthesuitcase]

EQ6 but I don't have a handset. I bought used and am using eq mod for control. But wouldn't this still fall foul of the fact I can't really tell the stars apart web looking through an eyepiece?

[Astrosurf]

Unfortunately leaving the house isn't an option due to an impending twin based doom ( which is why I've been taking up astro as wildlife photography doesn't really work when you can't leave to go see the wildlife!).  At some point I might try at my mums where I should be able to see polaris but it's not a proper solution for my situation.

Sounds difficult, but what is twin based doom??

[themaninthesuitcase]

Sounds difficult, but what is twin based doom??

The wife is 29 weeks pregnant with twins. It means I have to stay close to home in case it all kicks off! And once they are here getting out and about won't be happening for a month or so.

[Astrosurf]

Wow, congrats! I'm a twin so I know what it's like, having been told by Mum. All the very best, and keep us posted.

[frugal]

Sounds like astonomy is also going to be good practice for all those nights the twins are going to be keeping you awake

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

[themaninthesuitcase]

Think I've got it. 30s (haven't got my remote finished yet) of a terribly framed M45.

I ran 30x of that and have now re framed an focused using my DIY bahtinov and am doing a 2nd run hoping M42 comes into view before bed time (well it is a school night).