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Big Bang's Loop Theory

Kraunboerg

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Watchman

Watchman

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Olly, what if as in the model I suggested, space already existed as a boundless (see what I did there?) void and the big bang was just an ejection of matter and energy (and wouldnt necesarily be the only such event)? Is my model then not possible? Do we know that inflation happened or is it just a theory?

Genuine interest as if my idea is physicaly unsound then I am happy to bin it!

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Watchman

Watchman

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Olly, what if as in the model I suggested, space already existed as a boundless (see what I did there?) void and the big bang was just an ejection of matter and energy (and wouldnt necesarily be the only such event)? Is my model then not possible? Do we know that inflation happened or is it just a theory?

Genuine interest as if my idea is physicaly unsound then I am happy to bin it!

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Do we really know what 'space' is Olly? .. or do we 'think' we know what space is?

I think we know a little about it. Enough to know that we don't know much! I take your point most certainly, but it does seem reasonable to think that it's expanding, no? And there seems no reason to believe that this expansion be restricted to c. (It clearly isn't as observation confirms to the best of our knowledge.)

John D Barrow's Book of Nothing is wonderful on this. At one time I had a fighting chance of being invited to dinner with the great man but I left that behind when I moved to France. Damn!!

Olly

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Cath

Cath

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Sorry for the confusion.. I was referring to the statement....

"in the model I suggested, space already existed as a boundless void and the big bang was just an ejection of matter and energy"

The problem there is how to explain away the fact that all the matter at and beyond the observable universe limit is 'moving' away from us at faster than light speeds - assuming that space is a steady state medium that was already sat there in the first place.

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Watchman

Watchman

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The problem there is how to explain away the fact that all the matter at and beyond the observable universe limit is 'moving' away from us at faster than light speeds - assuming that space is a steady state medium that was already sat there in the first place.

Is all matter travelling at faster than light speed? We cant see anything outside the observable universe anyway. Also, if ALL things are travelling apart as someone suggested earlier, why do galaxies collide? Why will Andromeda collide with the milky way?

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Is all matter travelling at faster than light speed? We cant see anything outside the observable universe anyway. Also, if ALL things are travelling apart as someone suggested earlier, why do galaxies collide? Why will Andromeda collide with the milky way?

Very simple. The Hubble Flow (the expansion of the universe of which Hubble was never totally persuaded!!) is relatively slow. In a given volume of space it isn't much. Add enough similar unit volumes of space together, however, and it adds up to become enormously significant. So, cosmologically speaking, Andromeda is not very far away so not much expansion of space is going on between us. But the gravitaional attraction between two galaxies close together is immense and totally overwhelms the little bit of Hubble Flow pushing the other way. We and Andromeada are falling towards each other. We are 'gravitationally bound.'

Now, take a much more distant galaxy.

1) There is a LOT of space between us and it is all expanding so it is pushing us apart big time.

2) AND the greater distance weakens the gravitational bond between us and this galaxy. Ergo, the expansion of space vastly overwhesms the gravitational attraction. We are not gravitationally bound.

Olly

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Kropster

Kropster

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There are two kinds of reshift, Doppler and Cosmological. So far as I know they are follow the same equations but the difference, I think, answers your question. The Doppler is caused when objects leave their rest frames and are accelerated towards or away from each other. They are 'moving' in the normal sense of 'moving' which arises from an input of energy. The cosmological redshift will be seen between objects at rest, not accelerated. They are not 'moving' in the normal sense, not having had an input of energy. But space is expading between them, driving them apart.

The first kind of 'moving' must respect lightspeed as the maximum allowable.

The second doesn't have to because the bodies have not been accelerated but driven apart by the expansioon of space, and the expansion of space doesn't have to respect c.

Olly

I think that covers the faster than light bit.

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JKB

JKB

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As an Astrophysicist I don't feel I should add to the post. However I know that I enjoy looking at what our Universe holds with awe. We will never understand it fact. In a way I am glad because what would we do then? You can only talk about the weather for so long......I remember solving the Rubiks cube way back when and then was lost :eek:

Jamie

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Treeden

Treeden

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... We will never understand it fact. In a way I am glad because what would we do then?

Exactly so! :smiley:

We will (probably) never understand it all, but our goal shouldn’t be to understand it all, as that will leave us disappointed in not achieving it. Better still I think, is to try to learn as much as we can while we are here. That way we can appreciate the endeavour and whatever rewards come our way. The focus then becomes the quality of our journey and not the speed or distance travelled. :smiley:

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Ronnie67

Ronnie67

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To be honest with you, I read some of your text, but I lost my spot and got a little bored, the theory about the beginning of the universe is. Before our universe was created they may have been another, but there is no proof of this ever happening, because at the time of the Big Bang everything would have been lost, as they say, but there is talk that everything leaves behind a print, and finding this print is proving difficult. then in time is clasped on its self "Big Crunch" and the universe recycled into the "Big Bang"

THe universe is about 13.7 to 13.8 Blys old, if we observe our sun, light takes about 8 minutes to reach us, so we are observing our sun 8 minutes ago, and if we observe the Andromeda galaxy, we are looking at it 2.5 million years ago, the beginning of the universe at 13.7 to 13.8 billion years ago nothing could be observed,it was to young for anything to be born, no stars existed at that time, this is called "the Dark Ages"

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  • 3 years later...
Brad

Brad

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Posted

If big bang was actually a black hole that happened to have all the matter in the universe within it, with magnitudes of gravity so intense that destabilization occurred. Everything will be heading into black holes and become one again repeating itself for all of eternity.

Just wondering how many big bangs are out there. how far does this actually stretch.. is this the only one.. we will never know.

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andrew s

andrew s

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On 9/2/2013 at 13:34, ollypenrice said:

The Doppler is caused when objects leave their rest frames and are accelerated towards or away from each other

They don't need to be accelerated they just need to be moving relative to each other i.e. they are not in the same rest frame. However, the point you are making is correct. One is due to the metrical expansion of space and the other due to relative motion through space.

Regards Andrew

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