Celestron eyepieces

[alan potts]

Firstly I have to say I have never used a Celestron eyepiece and now probabley never will as I have enough black and green ones . I will tell you why I am interested. I started out with Meade eyepieces ( for better or worse ) and have had almost all of the Series 5000 ranges offerings over a 7 year period. Now take the SWA range for example with focal lengths from 16mm to 40mm, then look at ExSc range, it is the same. The same can be said for the UWA range too but here we see a few differences but it don't stop there . These were at one time all from the same factory in China, there may well be slight differences but without an in depth examination we will never be sure..

Moving on to Celestron we see in their UWA range called Axiom, F/L's of 31mm,23mm and 19mm, clearly not the same glass wearing different pants. So my point, Celestron clearly offer something different to us all from the relentless copying of many others, are they any good?

Alan.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The Axiom LX 82 deg EPs are different from the S5K UWAs, I gather. When I was in San Diego years back I was advised to go for the S5K UWA rather than the Axiom LX. The shop owner had tried both and preferred the S5K UWAs. He also said that Axiom LXs were returned more often. I am not sure in what way the Luminos are different.

[Stargazer_00]

I at one time owned both the 10mm and 15mm Luminos (the rebadged Axioms).

They were solidly made but massively overweight. They had an inbuilt twist up eye shield which added excessive weight to the eyepieces. The bodies themselves had engraved writing and looked well worth the money, just fat.

Optically they were ok. The 15mm was pleasing, the eye relief was better in my opinion than the ExSc I use now. Nothing much wrong with the 15 optically, just fat.

The 10mm was a little less pleasing optically. The eye relief was tighter if I remember, about equal to the ExScs, this doesnt bother me. Slightly less fat and a little bit taller than the 15mm. It did suffer from a trailing/leading/opposing (?) ghost on Jupiter though. If Jupiter was 10 degrees from centre on the right of the field then there was an equally spaced ghost on the left side, which joined in the centre as it drifted and then went off in the opposite direction once Jupiter moved on. Some false colour noticable in both eyepieces but I dont recall it being any worse than the ExSc which all seem to present a degree of false colour once 60%+ out from centre on Jupiter. No other abberations of note but these were my first venture into 82 degrees or even premium eye glass of any kind, graduating from BSTs. So as expected I saw very little wrong with them.

Having since used ExSc I recall that the Lumnios softened at the edge more than the ExScs do. Last 10% focus went out on both whereas the ExScs maintain focus to the final 1% and seem to go out of focus right on the field stop itself.

The biggest issue which I had with these eyepieces and was ultimately the final reason for which I return them both to FLO was the rubber eyecups which 'protect' the eyeglass. I say protect in the loosest fashion as the 'guards' fall off with with the slighest suggestion of a touch. I expect a strong wind could take them off! I stand my eyepieces up in the case, not side down like most. Side down these would 100% require an elastic band to keep them in place. Stood up, searching your eyepiece case in the dark you would knock the cups off when you located the eyepiece by touch and would have to carefully ensure you didnt touch the eyeglass when extracting the eyepiece. This absolutely hideous design might seem trivial but I owned both eyepieces for about 20 days and got a bit of use from both and this eyecup issue really was a thorn. I couldn't stomach spending £140 an eyepiece to have to live with this issue. It's bad enough they were fat (but not so fat at this focal length to cause weight balancing issues) but unprotected eyeglass was too much to bear.

Hope that helps.

[alan potts]

SG 00

A full account as always. I was asking this because though I won't use TS any longer I still look at their web-site just to see whats available, I was shocked to see the sell the big eyepiece (31mm) for almost 500 euros, that's a fair wedge, the best isn't going to cost that much more and I think Ex Sc is somewhat less for the 30mm version. This is what was making post the question how good are they, looks like the answer has started with a 'not very'

Alan

[Stargazer_00]

They used to be significantly more I think as well Alan. I did some reading up and the old Axioms were significantly higher priced.

I have a feeling more that Celestron developed these on their own at the time, so it's an independant development stream. They no doubt attempted to recoup costs by pricing them higher. The Axioms then went out of production and were replaced by Luminos at a more affordable price point. they now are priced to compete with Meade 5k UWAs, Nirvanas, UWANs, (post discount) ExSc and the like. They certainly are very well made eyepieces and optically do compete with thes, or bring something else to the table perhaps is closer.

Those eye guards though, seriously. Someone should be strung up over that one, it's a real shame in my view that they let such a stupid decision tarnish what could be a pleasing line.

Their 31mm offering is absolutely huge too. I think it's 1.25kg! The 30mm ExSc is much cheaper (imported of course) in comparison to FLOs price on this one (which I'm sure has little to no margin on it). Around £100 or more by my count. And the ExSc would be quite a bit lighter.

[alan potts]

I wanted a Celestron scope at first but there was no dealer here at the time which is why I went to Meade, scope wise I don't think there is much in it they may even be better because the no coma idea from them was way infront of anything from Celestron, and it does work.

I think now though Ex Sc rules the roost for most people on the eyepiece front, I might even try one myself when the 25mm 100 becomes available in England, it ever.

Alan.

[Stargazer_00]

ExSc are a really good thing for astronomy in my opinion. I'm very pleased with mine. I will live with these for a year or so and then probably start building a set of 100s.

[Dunkster]

I have the 23mm Axiom LX that came with my C11. Can't say I've used it more than a couple of times for setting up the scope, before I got bitten by other bugs It's heavy, makes the Ethos 17 feel lightweight. But the stand-out thing with this EP for me is the big flat top surface... the viewing lens is a bit more than half an inch across, but the whole top of the EP is about 2.5" and flat, so not so easy for cosying up to. If we ever get any weather worthy of sticking the C11 out(!!!), I'll try to take another look-see... it's always nice to revisit

But...the ES100/25 will be the prime objective of the next C11 session what an interesting comparison that might make!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I have the 23mm Axiom LX that came with my C11. Can't say I've used it more than a couple of times for setting up the scope, before I got bitten by other bugs It's heavy, makes the Ethos 17 feel lightweight. But the stand-out thing with this EP for me is the big flat top surface... the viewing lens is a bit more than half an inch across, but the whole top of the EP is about 2.5" and flat, so not so easy for cosying up to. If we ever get any weather worthy of sticking the C11 out(!!!), I'll try to take another look-see... it's always nice to revisit

But...the ES100/25 will be the prime objective of the next C11 session what an interesting comparison that might make!

I must say I was tempted by the ES 25/100 spec, but reading that the eye relief is just 14.5mm turned me right off. The 30mm promises 19mm which is great, but then my scope does not support a 3" EP

[Dunkster]

I must say I was tempted by the ES 25/100 spec, but reading that the eye relief is just 14.5mm turned me right off. The 30mm promises 19mm which is great, but then my scope does not support a 3" EP

ES eye relief tends to be on the optimistic side too, with sunken view ports, although with the 25 it's almost flat. The 30mm will be a real beast... I like the clip in the video, together with the diagonal the 30 will be 8lbs That's heavier than my refractor

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

ES eye relief tends to be on the optimistic side too, with sunken view ports, although with the 25 it's almost flat. The 30mm will be a real beast... I like the clip in the video, together with the diagonal the 30 will be 8lbs That's heavier than my refractor

And a lot heavier than my 80mm. It is close to my C8 (10.2 lbs)

[Dunkster]

Wow, that's ligjht the ota off my 8SE needs to go on a diet

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Wow, that's ligjht the ota off my 8SE needs to go on a diet

Actually, it is 10.35 (4.7kg) according to the Celestron catalog. I see the newer version are sometimes listed as being a full kilogram heavier

[Stargazer_00]

Maybe they have twist up eye cups too like the eyepieces ( blatant steer)

[John]

IMHO the best eyepiece that I've even used with the Celestron branding was the Japanese made Ultima range from the 1980's. There were some gems in that range, the best of which was the lovely 30mm 1.25". They were certainly as good as the Tele Vue plossls I feel. You can still get them for somewhat low prices on the used market from time to time.

The same (or very similar) eyepieces were also available with Orion (USA), Parks (USA), Antares and Baader branding on them.

I agree that ES eyepieces are making a big impact and are clearly excellent products. I do wish they company would play fair with the UK and allow dealers here to sell them at reasonable prices though. I know it's possible to import them from Europe and the US but why can't ES let us buy them direct from our dealers at a comparable price to the dealers in the US or even Europe ?. Sorry to sound like a stuck record on this but it really does bug me

[alan potts]

John,

Thats not sounding like a stuck record, I believe you just vent the feeling of many astronomers with in the UK. It is 2013 and this type of conduct by a company is not good enough.

That's coming from someone that has no Ex Sc eyepieces, but would like the 25mm maybe.

Alan

[Stargazer_00]

I whole heatedly agree. es need to sort their uk arrangement out. I'm just glad we at least have optical systems. no port duty or tax worries. incidentally optical systems sjip direct from explore scientific gmbh which means es has a company set up in europe.

[Dunkster]

Predictably, I'm going to bite

Having bought mine from the US, I don't feel the frustration... we live in a global market, there's little point in denying it. We all have a choice... go with it, or resist! However, the terms of the arrangement - or more lack of - between ES and our sponsor are undisclosed, maybe John knows different

Anyhow, my interpretation of FLO's statement on the subject was that it would be difficult (impossible?) to be competitive with existing suppliers yet still maintain a worthwhile margin on them. It's market forces. ES can't keep the US shelves stocked with the things, maybe because their prices are actually too low

So anyhow, once we've defined what fair is, you can all turn the little wind-up handle and get me started on Celestron and their 50% markup on anything with "Edge HD" on it, and the lack of sales/promotions like they get regularly in the US . Just being advocate, as I'm past the stage of feeling aggrieved by UK pricing...a clear night every now and again washes away all the pain

[Stargazer_00]

I got some from the US and some from Germany, and you are right it is no real hardship in reality.

There just isn't a good reason in my opinion why we shouldn't be able to get these from a number of suppliers on our own soil with next day delivery and warranty arrangements within our own borders.

I think ES are giving their product away at the moment but what they are doing is flooding the market with their high quality products effectively getting themselves well and truly out there. They are (in astro terms) a proper household name by now in my view. They have a good portion of the market share I would expect. They can then go back to normal pricing in the future and have enough people with their products to ensure their brand stays relevant and exposed and most importantly discussed amongst the community. Anyone with half an ounze of sense must recognise that the majority of sales come from people like us discussing their products when we are indoors because of clouds. They need to be something that is discussed. Once that happens the sales are inevitable.

The power of forums is huge. I bet 90% of the business for Alan on Skys the Limit's BST starguider EP sales comes from people on this forum recommending them. Now that's testament to a number of things really. Good product, good pricing but most of all people on here selling them by way of recommendation and keeping them in mind. By keeping his prices where they are and not being greedy Alan must be getting a lot more orders than say TS who sell the identical product for £20 more. no one ever recommends them.

[John]

Having bought mine from the US, I don't feel the frustration... we live in a global market, there's little point in denying it. We all have a choice... go with it, or resist! However, the terms of the arrangement - or more lack of - between ES and our sponsor are undisclosed, maybe John knows different ....

Just want to make it clear that I know no more than FLO has posted on here, in the recent long running thread on the availability of ES eyepieces. I feel that FLO were pretty open with us about what they hoped to achieve and that they were disappointed when that did not come off.

I have one ES eyepiece, the ES 20 / 100 which I bought used from an SGL member. It's a very good eyepiece.

Edit: The above does not help keep the thread to the original topic though, Celestron eyepieces. Sorry about that OP

[Dunkster]

1365671555[/url'>' post='1900159']

Just want to make it clear that I know no more than FLO has posted on here, in the recent long running thread on the availability of ES eyepieces. I feel that FLO were pretty open with us about what they hoped to achieve and that they were disappointed when that did not come off.

Indeed, my apologies John. In my morning stupor I had not intended any secret connection, but I appreciate that could be misinterpreted from what I typed.

My dig (and that's all it was folks!) was aimed at our assumptions about business practices and deals when we really don't know what goes on behind closed doors. As John mentioned, this ground was trodden enough in a previous thread.

To try and actually contribute something here, the Luminos and Axiom LX are supposed to be different glass, and according to postings over the pond the Axiom LX is the better of the two.

We should also keep in mind that a large proportion of the scopes that Celestron sells are slow at f/10 or higher, so if these were any good on a much faster scope, you have to wonder if it is/was by accident as it would surely be outside their primary design goal

[Stargazer_00]

To try and actually contribute something here, the Luminos and Axiom LX are supposed to be different glass, and according to postings over the pond the Axiom LX is the better of the two.

We should also keep in mind that a large proportion of the scopes that Celestron sells are slow at f/10 or higher, so if these were any good on a much faster scope, you have to wonder if it is/was by accident as it would surely be outside their primary design goal

Good points here. The design of the eyepiece between the two, Axiom and Luminos, is to my knowledge identical. The actual materials used and perhaps the manufacturing processes involved are different I believe as they changed the manufacturer between the production of the ranges.

I believe I also read that these were designed for their high end SCT range. That would make it understandable why they don't work so well (in my opinion) in cheap, medium/larger chinese newts.

[Dunkster]

I believe I also read that these were designed for their high end SCT range. That would make it understandable why they don't work so well (in my opinion) in cheap, medium/larger chinese newts.

Indeed, the 23 came with my C11 Edge HD. Not sure what they bundle with the non-Edge or smaller SCTs, but my C6 came with an E-Lux plossl - which I quite like as a finder on that scope, but I suspect it's also no match physically or any other way for something more sophisticated

[rwilkey]

As a user or Axiom LX's I find them quite good, though they do not get frequent use from me, like other I have ES's now which I prefer. However, don't forget the early Axioms were made in Japan and it wasn't until the LX's came out that people took notice of these, albeit at a price. I bought mine s/h and have never paid full price for them, but they are not bad and very comfortable to use, ER is a bit of a pain sometimes but the twist-up eyecups work very well. As others say, I think the reduced ER on the ES's make them better and more engrossing to use.

[alan potts]

Interesting Robin,

I just looked at your line up of eyepieces there and you seem to have a small shopsworth of them, I liked the Meade 28mm, it was one of my favourites. I have never had Celestron as we didn't have a dealer here until last year I was just interested as to what they were like. Thanks for taking the time.

Alan.