Alpha Canis Minor (Procyon)

[alan potts]

Well Everybody,

We have read of John's fantastic night with Sirius and the Pup and we know this is a difficult object. I have tried it for some years and only started to see this last few months and a good few times at that. That is itself I find rather odd.

What I would like to know from some of the more serious double hunters is can we split Procyon, it is much the same a Sirius in so much as it too has a faint double of I believe the 10th magnitude. I do not know what the split is but is it do-able in 4-12 inch scopes?

I have had a good few evenings on it mostly in the last three years but so far nothing doing.

Alan

[chiltonstar]

Alpha CMI is listed in Cambridge as being a 0.9 arc sec split - may just be do-able, even in a 4or 5", depending on the current sep. I shall try next time the sky is visible...

Chris

[John]

Thanks for the challenge Alan - I'll definitely have a stab at this on the next clear night

[chiltonstar]

I've checked my observing notes and I did have a try at Procyon a year ago when I was fairly new to the Mak and not yet aware of the importance of a long cool down.

I got a "figure of eight" impression, two disks but touching. Maybe I'll have another try now I know also about John's Arctic winds (see Sirius thread) and see if I can do better....!

EDIT: The 0.9 sep above, and what I observed, appear to refer to the star very close to Procyon according to Cambridge (Sigma 1126) - I'm not sure whether the binary to Procyon itself is observable in an amateur scope??

Chris

[lunator]

Chris

I am not ware that Procyon is split-able in an amateur scope.

I will check my information tho'

Cheers

Ian

[alan potts]

Ian,

I was rather hoping you answered to this and I tend to agree with you I don't think it is do-able, the split is do able but not with the massive difference in brightness. I will have a go at it nonetheless. I have only just come in because I am freezing and forgot all about it and it is a very good night.

I have Just done Sirus again and I know people will think I am a nutter but I split this to-night a with a 1000mm F 5.26 M/N with a 24mm Panoptic, thats X44 it was as clear as the nose on your face for long periods then I lost it then it was back. I know this may be difficult to believe but my sky is as good as it comes. I have no LP and I am at 1800 feet ASL which I guess helps too.

Alan.

[lunator]

Alan

Sounds a fantastic night its miserable here in the UK, cloud/snow/rain etc.........

I have checked the Washington Double Star database and the 6th orbit catalogue.

The separation is currently just under 3" and with the difference in magnitude 0.45 vs 10.9 it will be pretty much impossible.

Just for info the orbit lasts 40.82 years and the widest separation is 4.7". The pair is widening but they were closest in 2007/8.

Looking at the notes from the RAS the pair have been split in a 36" scope :)

I better start saving

Cheers

Ian

[John]

Congratulations on Sirus B again Alan and thanks for the update on Procyon Ian

From my viewing of Sirius the other night I'd say seeing conditions plus optics (scope AND eyepiece) that can really control the light scatter from Sirius A are the key to seeing the Pup. The increased altitude of the star where Alan is can only be a good thing too

I'll put Procyon on my "to do" list for when I get my 30+ inch scope

[alan potts]

Ian and John,

I will have a look at Procyon, it's a nice enough star in it's own right, my wife never understands me, "which star are looking at" then the reply after I pointing, " I can see that with my eyes why do you need all these telescopes", women!

On Sirius, I can't believe this X44 seeng the 'pup' I said the other night I could see it with less, I really believe I can. I can clearly see a star about 8th Mag wahat would be about East of Siruis. That is the the Pup isn't it, or am I see i a Sirius Ghost. It is interesting what Sirus will do with some eyepieces with ghost images all over the FOV, no not ghostd but like darting flashs here and there. It is worse in some that others and these are all TV's, never really noticed it on anything else.

So 40 inch reflector here we come!

Alan

[chiltonstar]

Ian and John,

I will have a look at Procyon, it's a nice enough star in it's own right, my wife never understands me, "which star are looking at" then the reply after I pointing, " I can see that with my eyes why do you need all these telescopes", women!

On Sirius, I can't believe this X44 seeng the 'pup' I said the other night I could see it with less, I really believe I can. I can clearly see a star about 8th Mag wahat would be about East of Siruis. That is the the Pup isn't it, or am I see i a Sirius Ghost. It is interesting what Sirus will do with some eyepieces with ghost images all over the FOV, no not ghostd but like darting flashs here and there. It is worse in some that others and these are all TV's, never really noticed it on anything else.

So 40 inch reflector here we come!

Alan

While you're waiting for your 40", try Sigma 1126 which is very close to Procyon (0.9 deg E) and quite a hard split - 0.9 arc sec. It would be interesting to know how it looks with your better observation latitude.

Chris

[John]

....On Sirius, I can't believe this X44 seeng the 'pup' I said the other night I could see it with less, I really believe I can. I can clearly see a star about 8th Mag wahat would be about East of Siruis. That is the the Pup isn't it, or am I see i a Sirius Ghost. It is interesting what Sirus will do with some eyepieces with ghost images all over the FOV, no not ghostd but like darting flashs here and there. It is worse in some that others and these are all TV's, never really noticed it on anything else.....

I found I needed 250x - 300x to see the Pup with my 12" F/5.3 newtonian when I reported it the other night. The separation is 8 arc seconds which is around twice that of Castor. Less power or more just didn't do it for me on that occasion. They type of eyepiece made a difference too.

The Pup is more or less due east of Sirius so appears to follow it across the sky as it crosses the field of view of my undriven scope. The Pup seemed immersed in the halo of diffracted light surrounding Sirius but there were definitely a number of moments of several seconds duration in each crossing of the field where the little companion star twinkled clearly next to it's much brighter neighbour.

[alan potts]

Chris,

I will give this a try next time out, we are clearish tonight but not up to bothering to set up clear. I am very lucky that I can pick and choose, the way the weather is at the moment we tend to get 2-3 poor days then 5-6 good ones. The Moon is getting higher so I will keep finger crossed for tomorrow.

John,

I will be trying Sirius again tomorrow, as much as I think I can see this star on a low magnification I just can't convince myself. The seperation is fairly large by tight double standards it is only the brightness of the main star that is making this a hard task. I think Rigel is 10 seconds and that is very easy at a low magnification in even a small scope. I think so much of it is the higher in the sky aspect that I have. I myself find it interesting that over X150 I have never seen this Pup star and I am still to see this in the biggest of my scopes ,again something that I find rather odd. I have talked about a clean star image when I can see it, one reason for the lower magnification used. When I was seeing it or believeing I was seeing it the star was absolutely still and just looked like a small bright ball of ligth with no scintillation what so ever, this is something I do not believe you get in the UK as often as me.

Alan.

[chiltonstar]

The Pup is more or less due east of Sirius so appears to follow it across the sky as it crosses the field of view of my undriven scope. The Pup seemed immersed in the halo of diffracted light surrounding Sirius but there were definitely a number of moments of several seconds duration in each crossing of the field where the little companion star twinkled clearly next to it's much brighter neighbour.

What is the most current PA for the Pup? I see it as slightly less than due E, more like ten past two position, but I'm only estimating it roughly by comparison with W when I turn the drive off (I couldn't make my way round the Washington catalogue when I tried for the first time....)

Chris

[John]

I've been using this as a rough guide (my wording above was rather sloppy though !):

[chiltonstar]

I've been using this as a rough guide (my wording above was rather sloppy though !):

Yep, about right! Obviously not a reflection that I'm seeing then.

Chris

[chiltonstar]

While you're waiting for your 40", try Sigma 1126 which is very close to Procyon (0.9 deg E) and quite a hard split - 0.9 arc sec. It would be interesting to know how it looks with your better observation latitude.

Chris

Sorry, the 0.9 deg E is a mistake - it's much closer, more like 10 arc min E (same high power field).

Chris

[alan potts]

Well Chris

Sig 1126 has sort of put the mockers on things, ever since you told me about it the conditions have not been good enogh and now we have a very bright Moon ( I guess you have too ), it is on my to do list.

Alan.

[chiltonstar]

Well Chris

Sig 1126 has sort of put the mockers on things, ever since you told me about it the conditions have not been good enogh and now we have a very bright Moon ( I guess you have too ), it is on my to do list.

Alan.

No Alan, no moonlight here at all! No sky either......

Chris