Equatorial mount and disability

[T-J]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and also new to astronomy in the sense that I´m currently in the process of buying my first telescope. I have been interested in the universe since I was little, but haven't had the opportunity to go further than that, before now.

Anyway, the thing is that I am disabled, and uses a manual wheelchair, which certainlly is not the easiest to deal with when it comes to selecting a setup for stargazing, After asking a friend, he suggested I should go for a SCT considering the place of the eye piece (I was first suggested the Newtonian, so I had found a couple of good scopes there, but didn't think of the placing of the ep then) The scope I have found is the Celestron Omni XLT 127, which is said to be a good allround telescope, and certainly quite easy to bring with me, considering it's size. This, at the online store, is sold with the CG-4 mount, which again looks quite good, when reading the reviews. THe only negative thing I found at first was that it isn't possible to add a goto (if I would become interested in it later). In any case, I most probably will add ordinary motors to it, but I really do value not being bound to use only motors in order to move the scope. I have looked at the NexStar series, but noticed it it was entirely dependent on electricity to work, Being disabled it would be an issue to bring a powerpack in case I went out with it somwhere too. Therefore, I thought the Omni would be great for me. To be honest, I first wanted to go higher in aperture, but due to price and models I think this will be a good one to start with.

I have also discussed somewhat with a reseller of telescopes, and due to my disability he thinks the best option for me would be to go for a pier, if possible, and put a C5 on that. Well, the pier would be a good idea, if it weren't for the permanent location. I will foremostly use the scope at the summer house, with really dark skies, but also at home in town. So therefore a pier wouldn't do, even if having a good place to set it up. He also said that an equatorial mount is not good in my positiion, due to the fact that the legs of it will be in the way of accessing the ep. Instead he suggested an alt/az mount.

Now, as far as I know, the alt/az is not the ideal mount if you are going to stargaze, but more suited to birdwatching etc. on ground level. With this in mind, I'm still interested in an equatorial.

As I have done some research learning about different telescopes, mounts, etc, etc, I came across this forum a while ago, and noticed that some of the members here, are disabled, like me. Thus, I thought I would ask here, and am very interested in knowing how you handle the equatorial mounts (in case you are disabled) or in case you know someone who is and uses one.

I really do appreciate all the input I can get in this matter, since I certainly don't want to buy anything without knowing for sure (or as sure as I can be) that I will be able to use it.

Oh, I should also add that I go for a sturdier mount, in order not to accidently bump it around easily, as very likely can happen with a wheelchair, and therefore I have disregarded the lighter mounts. Yes, I do know that the equatorials takes a bit longer to set up, but I think this is rewarded when getting it together, and with practice, it will take less and less time, so that's not an issue. Since I like photographing, I'm thinking of doing some astrophotographing too, and as I understand, that's easier with an equatorial mount...and yes, I do know that any pictures I manage to take or sights I view will not be like the one's seen in the media taken by Hubble. The feeling of seeing different objects for myself, and possibly get some good photos with my own equipment I believe will be very exciting in itself. =)

So, as I stated before, I'll really appreaciate your input in this matter. If anything's unclear, I'll try to explain it better.

Looking forward to spend more time here, and with the scope, when I finally have decided what to get, learning the skies better...

/Tobias

[nmoushon]

Firstly, Welcome to the forum! You'll find plenty of people willing to help answer any of your question.

Secondly, I think a SCT would be the easiest for viewing with you being in a wheelchair. I can't comment on the exact model you mentioned as I have no experience with them. Sorry.

Thirdly, An Alt/Az mount would actually be easier for strictly viewing purposes over an EQ mount. And would be easier to navigate with since you are in a wheelchair BUT since you said that you want to at least dabble in AP (if not get full blown into it) then an EQ mount is the only way to go. I would at least get a CG-5 with GOTO as the minimum mount for both visual and imaging purposes. But it is on the lighter side (both in weight and sturdiness). Which could be a plus as it would make it easier to setup and possibly by yourself. But if you want a heavier mount that can take a little bump here and there and not mess the alignment up horribly then I would suggest a HEQ5. Though you might need help setting it up. Not sure of your personal limits so you might want to take a trip to a store if you can and test it out for your self. But like I said its bigger and sturdier and it will most definitely be able to hold up to upgrades to your scope in the future as well. But its a bit pricier so you'll need to take that into consideration as well.

Fourthly, SCT is good visually and will work well on planetary and lunar imaging as is but for Deep Sky Objects its not the most ideal. It has a slow focal ratio (f/10) so your exposures would need to be much longer than other scopes at faster ratios (f/4 to f/6) to get even decent images. There are some equipment pieces that can help make it a faster scope but that costs some good money. So will need to budget for that as well.

Fifthly, Have you considered refractors? Their aperture is limited compared to SCTs but the EP will actually stick down farther than SCTs would and are more suited for imaging DSO. But imaging fracs are much more expensive so again will have to consider your budget. But visual fracs can have much larger apertures and focal lengths, which brings the ep even lower, compared to imaging fracs. But again frac in general are more expensive than other scopes.

[rowan46]

Welcome

The scope is the same ota as is on the nexstar 5 except it has a visual finder instead of a red dot. It's a nice scope with lovely optics ( I have one) but it's not great for deep space imaging as it has too long a focal length and at f10 is very slow. It's great for photographing the moon and will do planets (although more apparture would give better resolution) Visually it is ok from an urban location but excellent under dark skies. As I said for imaging it is better suited to a big accurate powered mount as getting photo's of deep space out of an unpowered mount is I would imagine impossible. In fact I would suggest even planetary photo's would be difficult. Probably the only photo's you could take easily unpowered with this scope is pics of the moon. That being said if you have to get a mount that is powered and suitable for imaging the moon and planets why not get a motorised alt az mount for example a 2nd hand nexstar 6se will be about the same price. It's difficult to say this or that will be suitable for a person with a disability because each disability brings its own range of unique problems as you know. Probably an sct or mak is physically the best match for you but it may not be the best match for your imaging needs.

[ollypenrice]

I'll PM Paul to ask him to comment. He's your man.

I also think an SCT or Mak on a motorized alt az would be best though I can't be sure. A motorized alt az tracks the sky perfectly well but the object slowly rotates while remaining centred so long exposures are ruled out.

However, fast frame cameras can be used in alt-az to capture the moon and planets to the highest standard and are fairly cheap. They also play to the strengths of long focal length catadiotric scopes.

However, Paul will tell all, I'm sure.

Olly

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Hi and welcome to SGL.

I would have a good look at the NexStar SE line-up of scopes. LukeSkywatcher (Paul, http://stargazerslounge.com/user/5361-lukeskywatcher/) uses the 8SE and is very content with it. The nice thing about the 8" SCT optical tube is that it is lighter, and more compact than most other 6" scopes (it is even almost 1kg lighter than the SkyMax 150 Pro).

[LukeSkywatcher]

Hi Tobias

Welcome to SGL. I am in a wheelchair also and i know how much trouble it can be to find thew right scope to suit your needs. The best thing i think i can do is to tell you my story and my findings of the different scopes i own. Hopefully this will help you decide which scope is best suited to you and your needs.

My first telescope was a Celestron Firstscope 90mm. It is a refractor on an EQ mount. I decided on this scope because the eyepiece was at the correct end of the scope for me to use. The scope itself is great, but i quickly got frustrated with it and stopped using it because i didnt like the EQ mount. The problem was that to take it outside i had to make several trips indoors and transport the whole thing one piece at a time. The scope tube was ok as it is very light. The tripod and mount were a real pain because of the shape,size and weight of them. The whole thing was simple to setup outside but it was the getting outside part that i found most difficult and annoying. The eyepiece could get into some very strange positions which made using the scope a nightmare. To this day the scope is gathering dust in a cupboard.

My second scope was the Skywatcher Heritage 130P (Dob). I decided to buy this scope because it is small and compact and really quite light to carry. The whole thing comes in one piece and can be carried with one hand while still controlling my manual wheelchair. I cant remember the exact weight but it is no more then 7Kg. Its a greast scope to use. I can be outside in the garden and setup within a couple of minutes. Its said that you need a table to use this scope as it is so small and low to the ground. I have found this not to be true. I can very easily use it with it just sitting on the ground. I have to lean forward slightly to see through the eyepiece but thats ok because i have very good balance and there's not much chance of me falling forward out of the wheelchair. It may also be used on a small platform if needed, to raise it off of the ground a few inches. This is probably safer as it takes away ANY risk of you falling from the chair. It really does perform well on most objects.

After using the Heritage for a couple of years, i decided that i really wanted more aperture. I started searching and asking advice from the members here. My first thought was a 150-200mm Dob but i quickly found out that the height of the eyepiece was slightly too high for me from a seated position and not to mention that they are bigger and heavier then they look in pictures, so that idea quickly went out of my head. In a very short space of time, it was said to me that i should think about buying an SCT because they fitted all my needs (portability,light weight and bigger aperture). I never thought that it would be possible for me to own a scope bigger and almost as portable as the Heritage.

I decided to buy the Celestron Nexstar 8se. It's a full Go-To 8" SCT on an Alt-Az mount. The scope tube itself is very light and compact for the size of the aperture. I can easily pick it up and attach it to the mount. The mount (handset control system) is also really pretty light and is easily attached to the tripod. The tripod in itself is also quite light and easy to carry outside. The tripod is very stable and a wheelchair can easily get close to it without banging into it. The eyepiece on the scope is at the correct end and no matter where you point the scope in any direction or elevation, the eyepiece practically remains right infront of your eye at the same level. It moves very little so this makes observing high up and low down very comfortable.

All in all, i have to say that i am extremely happy with both the Heritage 130P and the SCT. I do prefer the SCT though for obvious reasons (aperture,Go-To).

I really am not into astrophotography much so i cant really help you on that matter, but what the others say about the various different scopes and mounts with regards to imaging is all good advice and applies to anyone using the different scopes.

I hope this has answered some of your questions and helps you decide. If you want to contact me personally, please feel free to do so.

In summary:

I personally dislike EQ mounts with a passion, but if AP is your thing then you really do need one.

Alt-Az mounts are fine for visual astronomy and maybe some webcam work on the Moon and planets

Dob mounts are fine for visual astronomy but most of them put the eyepiece at the wrong end of the scope for a wheelchair user to use.

Paul

P.S.~~~if you decide to buy a Go-To scope, dont worry about the powerpack for it. They really are small and not at all that heavy. I have a celestron 7aH and its just like a big torch and it no problem to take outside and power my 8SE.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I may as well add to my above comment buy saying that i recently bought a Baddar Hyperion Zoom eyepiece. The reason for this was to cut down on the amount of gear i have to take outside with me. All i take out on any given night now is the 8SE,powertank and the zoom eyepiece.

Paul

[T-J]

Hello again,

Thanks for the warm welcome! ...and thanks for the help and great and quick replies.

Let's see now, I'll try to reply to you in the order of questions.

nmosdhon: You were right in that there are many who will try to help me. However, I was pleasantly surprised at how fast all of you answered. That made me really feel welcome, let alone the knowledgeable answers. As for SCT:s I had read some good reviews of how good it is, especially as an beginner's to more experienced user, and that it one which you can grow with. Thanks for the more in-dept insights. I knew it was best for the moon and planets, but from the reviews I got the impression that it likewise was quite good for DSO:s. Guess I may have read t omuch into those statements, or that the reviewers hyperboled it somewhat.

As for mounts, I had read that the equatorial mounts are the best when stargazing, but not so much for for example bird watching. Now, however, I seem to have dissuaded from them by virtually everyone, so point definitely taken. Fortunately, there is the other type of mounts too, otherwise it would have been bad. As for AP, as I'm interested in it, since I like photography, I have checked into the possibilty to do it using an Alt/Az mount, and it seems like it is, although it's a little bit more to consider. Anyway, that will be a later question, as I intend to get a firm grip on finding my way among the celestial skies first. So any AP will wait until later. Nevertheless, thanks for the info about mounts. I will keep it in mind if/when I go on more serious AP. As for refractors, I have looked at some of those too, but it seems like they're not ideal for me, considering the size, weight, and also the fact that CA seems to grow with larger telescopes and larges apertures. As I'm a "detail" person (noticing details) that doesn't sound very good to me. Furthermore, to stay in the price range I intended, I would have to back down somewhat more on aperture in order to go for a refractor, and since aperture is a very good thing as I have understood from this and other forums I've browsed, trying to learn as much as I can before buying anything, I ruled them out. Thanks for the suggestion though,

rowan46: Thanks for the input on the Omni scope, and for the short lesson in AP. It will certainly come in handy when I give it a go later on.

ollypenrise: Interesting insights, I keep learning all the time. Great. Yes, more serious AP would have to be with a motorized mount, but the ideal there would be one who didn't necessarily have to be use the motors all the time. It would be great if it could be disabled in order to handle the scope manually. Oh, and thanks for writing Paul too, I really appreciate it.

Michael: Thanks for telling me more about the Nextar series. It seems to me that it may be a good option later on, but not as a first telescope, if nothing else than for the price, but not only for that, (see above).

Paul: Thanks for telling me your story and experiences. That was very informative and gave me more angles and thought to check out. I will pm you for a further discussion. As I stated above, I'm not going into the GOTO scopes, at least not as a first telescope. However, I think the Heritage 130P sounds intriguing. and I have also looked it up on the net, since you suggested it. I wouldn't have thought about a Dob before, since as you say, most won't do when sitting in wheelchair, for obvious reasons. Kind of annoying really, to have to narrow down the options because of a disabilty...oh well, at least there are still things that work and that's great.

/Tobias

[T-J]

Don't know why the text got so small, in my reply above, I tried to change the size when noticing, but apparently it didn't stick. Sorry for that.

(I've now sorted that for you - Helen)

[LukeSkywatcher]

As I stated above, I'm not going into the GOTO scopes, at least not as a first telescope. However, I think the Heritage 130P sounds intriguing

If Go-To scopes are not on the menu, then i can only say that the Heritage 130P is the scope for you seen as you are in a wheelchair and its all about portability.

Its a fantastic scope and really is not a problem to transport,setup etc.

[ollypenrice]

A thought on using the SCT or Mak scopes manually in Alt Azimuth. I have never found this very pleasant. The long focal length and limited field of view which this brings makes finding and centering objects tricky.

Manual alt-az mounts are nice to use with short focal length instruments, or so it seems to me.

One thing about a German Equatorial for deep sky imaging in the future: you don't have to look through anything other than a red dot finder once at the start of the session. The rest you control from the PC. This means no difficulties of access. In fact if you have a laser attached to the scope for initial finding of an alignment star you never need to get to any eyepiece at all. That might be good for you.

Olly

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

If the goto system has been aligned properly alt-az or EQ mount does not matter, it should find things for you. I do not have goto on my mount, but with a 70 right-angle correct-image (RACI) finder (short frac converted to finder) I have little difficulty finding things (a 9x50 RACI would be fine as well). I do prefer equatorial star-hopping (having had an EQ mount for 17 years), but maybe I am just twisted (by 53 deg at the moment). EQ is much better than alt-az for imaging.

[T-J]

Hi again everybody,

thanks for the suggestions, and very interesting and insightful advice. I thought I would let you know what I decided on, since it may be of interest. I know I would be curious if I gave advice to someone...just fun to know what the outcome is.

I asked Paul some more questions, and decided to go for the Heritage-130P, since I want to learn "the trade" so to speak, from the basics to begin with. I reckon I will do this best without any motors etc., and also I don´t want to entirely trust motors, no mattr how good they are, without any possibility to disengage them and manoever it manually. Trusting a fully automatic makes it easy just to rely on it's capability of finding the celestial objects without bothering to get to how to do it by yourself. Yes, I agree, ot can be very useful in some circumstances, and if/when I upgrade later on, I may look into one then. However, for the time being, I feel the Heritage is what is right for me. The weight is also another great thing with it, and as I will have it in at least two locations, not mentioning moving it around at those locations too, this is essential for me. Also, since it was quite a lot beneath the monetary limit I had set for this, I thought I would add some more accessories to it. Therefore, I'll get a set of oculars, filters, red/white torch, cheshire collimator, right-angle lens (to use it daytime as a spyglass), a barlow, and some other things which may be beneficial do to my sitting down.

Thanks again for your help, =) As you know, when entering astronomy other than reading about it, it's a veritable jungle to find your way to a scope that will fit you...and even more so if you have some specific wishes, and needs.

Looking forward to stargazing, and also being here on SGL, since it's really a great forum. =)

/Tobias

[Ags]

Glad you made a choice, and i think a very good one!

Regarding the astrophotography, let me share with you my latest enthusiasm. You can mount a 2kg Vixen Polarie on a relatively lightweight tripod (I plan to use an AZ3) and use it to drive a camera for exposures of up to a couple of minutes using telephoto camera lenses. There are plenty of interesting objects to photograph with camera lenses! You can also just stick the camera on a tripod and shoot widefield images of the sky...

Try to hold off buying too many things all at once! Get the scope and try it out and see what you really need. It is too easy to buy a load of stuff that hardly gets any use, and your idea of what is necessary will change when you actually have the scope.

[T-J]

Thanks Agnes! Yes, I think so too. Will order it tomorrow and then it's just wait. =)

Great to hear about that you've taken to astrophotography,...and thank you for the info about it too. It may very well be of use to me later, when I've gotten a good grip on navigating the skies.

Regarding buying too many things in the beginning, that's really good advice. In my case though, I usually don't rush into something, then buy all things I can think of which could be useful to have and which is affordable. No, instead, if I'm interested in getting in deeper into something, I take quite a while thinking it through...then if I do decide it's something for me, I begin looking around at what available, learning even more (like in this case), and finally, I choose what to buy and not, or maybe get later on. That's why I also stressed the portability and manual managing of the scope. I don't intend to let it gather dust in some forgotten corner, given the skies are clear of course, which may be an issue at times. Since I'm going to place my order tomorrow, I expect it will be cloudy from then on, and even more when I actually get it in my hands, if the experience of others here are anything to judge from.

Anyway, I know some cloudgazing too, (what kind of cloud means what ) and plan to get more experienced in that as well and that may be useful when dealing with this too. =) So whatever the sky, I´ll win. Other than that, you can always learn more about the celestial bodies and universe through theory, online, in magazines, and books, so I don't reckon there will be any shortage on what to do on cloady days/nights, given the opportunity and time.

For the moment, I will grab my small binoculars and head out to try and see the Orionids, and maybe, the Leo Minorids, which acording to a site I checked is at their peak tonight. Depens on if I get the right sight opportunities.

Clear skies to you all and good luck with AP Agnes. =)

/Tobias

[T-J]

Thought I would do a quick update. I ordered the Heritage-130, and some accessories to it, and due to having visitors, I couldn't upack it until today. Anyway, I checked that all things are in order, nothing damaged in the delivery etc. Everything's ok, and wasn't surprised the least to find the obligatory cloud pack either, which is exceptionally slippery to get hold of as it quickly rises and unfurls all over the sky, It must have leaked out earlier today, since it wasn't only cloudy but misty, and rained here today. So, sorry friends, it seems like you are 100% correct about that every new telescope comes with it's own costumary cloud package. So if anyone has problems with a cloudy sky, it's because of my Heritage. Shouldn't stay long though, since it is "only" a 130p, not that large. I also think the clouds are affected by the fact that it's a flextube, in that it therefore varies in size. to become smaller than 130p when collapsed.

Well, just wanted to tell you... so, now I'm keeping a close eye on the sky, and waiting. Will go through the manual so I know exactly how this scope will work and perform, (don't want to seem to eager to the clouds, I figure it's best to ignore them...they may grow tired and go off in search of another newly unpacked telescope. ) If not, I sometimes cloudgaze as well, so I take it easy. If not, I'm a veeery patient guy, so I daresay I´ll outlast those clouds too...*glancing up at them* though it may be a battle of minds...me against the clouds.

Clear skies everyone! I'll join in as soon as I can. Will be fun. =)

/Tobias

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Glad to hear it arrived in good order. I'll keep my fingers crossed for some clear skies (wouldn't mind some myself, either )