Considering new telescope and mount

[gcraib]

I'm thinking about investing some of my cash and upgrading my kit.

I still like the skymak127 but would like something a bit more powerful but also something better with DSO's. So we are looking at a newtonian.

I'm thinking 8" and have been looking at the skywatcher 200p (not sure if the dual focus is worth it?)

There is also the quattro, what are the thoughts on this?

I definately want to upgrade the mount as I'd like to take some longer exposures so this means tracking and maybe guiding in the future. So I think we are looking at motorised EQ5, synscan etc. I'm not sure what the difference is between the EQ5, HEQ5, pro etc.

I think an EQ6 will be too heavy for now.

Then there is storage and space etc. I would probably sell the EQ3-2 once I get a new mount as I don't see the need for two mounts and two would take up more space. I keep the EQ3-2 in a cricket bag so would just reuse that for new mount.

I also want to think ahead here so I'm spending wisely now. Am happy with the skymax127 so I will keep it a long time, so I want the same with any other telescopes. So if I have the mak127 and get a newt 200 then I have planetary detail and DSO detail. But I wonder if one day I would get fed up switching between two scopes and buy a 5 or 6" refractor, which could do either but maybe not quite so well as either?

If anybody can give me some suggestions that would be great.

Any pointers on storage also great, I use a toolbox with bubble wrap for the mak as the case for the mak150 version I thought would be too big and it was 7 x the price.

What do other people do that run two scopes? Do you have a mount for each?

maybe one day I would buy an even bigger scope and an even bigger mount but who knows, so that is why I'm looking at EQ5 series.

I suppose there are other manufacturers eg celestron but skywatcher is reasonably priced and good quality.

Looking to spend about £1000-1500. Not ruling out other manf, but would want to be able to make the most of what I have just now (eg mount compatible with mak127)

[Hex]

The HEQ5 is driven, its what you want for astro-photography , for visual you want the the EQ5, this comes with its own problems for visual use which why most folks into reflectors go down the dob route, its easier on the neck! But as a refractor buff, I'm not the man to advise you. If you are thinking of the long haul it may be wise to wait and try several out fits out at a star party, however I have lost count of the amount of times I have heard someone say that the best all round scope they ever owned was the Skywatcher ED120, as far as refractors' go (I own the ED100, a very nice scope in its own right) it is the business, but expensive compared to the 200P/ 200 PDS. You don't need the dual focuser that you get on the 200PDS for visual (its a fine tuner) its just very nice to have. As for how many mounts? how much space/money do you have? Some need two mounts because the scope sizes of their scopes are so very different, a small grab and go for short sessions or the big guns for an all nighter (when anyone gets the time and the right weather to coincide for such an event is doing rather well in my book!) I have one scope and compromise, I just don't like having more than I need, I never have, I own one fly rod and reel for the same reasons...I'm an old hippy on the quite

[Hex]

A EQ5 tripod and a Giro III head or a Skytee 2 would hold your other scope and either the ED120 or a 200P at the same time easily BTW

[gcraib]

Thanks Hex. I agree, you don't want to have more than you need. I hate clutter so my main worry is neatness and storage.

I wouldn't sell the mak though so its likely I'll have a second OTA, but one mount/tripod.

I'll sell the EQ3-2 and go for the HEQ5. Haven't heard of giro III head or Skytee.

[swag72]

The HEQ5 is generally considered to be the minimum mount for AP. No...... Don't let me totally mislead you, people do it on far less and there's a couple of threads in the imaging section showing you what people are getting with their more budget scopes and mounts......But, I have found this hobby to be very frustrating as well as very unforgiving when things are not 100% right. I don't want to battle with kit in order to get it to work, I want stuff to work as much out of the box as possible, things are hard enough already without adding incorrect kit into the equation.

That's my take on the mount, even then, I use refractors, so don't know the weight of your scope. I have about 13-15kgs on my HEQ5 and I'd probably not put much more on there. I reckon it's at it's weight limit!

If you are relatively new into imaging, may I recommend the book 'Making Every Photon Count'? Available in the book section on the FLO website, this really is something of an imaging bible and will help you make choices as well as maximise the potential out of your kit. A very good way to go for DSO imaging is an HEQ5 and a small ED80 refractor, very forgiving on the guiding as the focal length is pretty short.

Hope that helps, just a little bit!

[gcraib]

Thanks for the replies foks.

I've been playing around with stellarium and various EP scope combinations.

Its good to see the FoV and magnification, although I know that objects will be much dimmer. I think I just need an EP with a wider FoV.

Even for M45 and M31 (more or less) they fit within a 38mm EP with 70deg aFoV (like a panaview), although a 200p or even a 120 or 80 ED offer a wider field obviously.

I'm thinking maybe HEQ5 and an EP for now.

[gcraib]

Well I didn't get an EP and I'm still thinking of getting a new scope.

Definately going to get a new mount, HEQ5 Pro, so might as well get a scope at the same time.

I'm looking at a refractor, in particular the SW evostar ED100 or ED120 as they both appear to be quite good, the cost jumo between the ED100 and ED120 seems to be a lot for 1 inch of apeture. But they are both APO and you can get 0.85 focal reducer, plus they both come with carry case!! (an important point for me)

I was also looking at the Bresser Messier 152S as its a lot of scope for the money (about same as ED100 & it comes with mount). But its not APO, seems to get a good review from sky at night, but I've also read about focuser issues (read about that on evostar too). It has a focal length 760mm, but you can get that on ED120 with focal reducer.

My previous thoughts of a newt (apeture fever) are put back as a refractor could also double as a portable imaging scope. I might consider a newt one day for low cost apeture. I may also (again one day) trade the mak127 in for a mak 150 (apetrure fever again) as the HEQ5 should manage it comfortably.

With the HEQ5 I will get into guiding, how will handle an ED100 or 120 with guiding equipment and a DSLR?

Will it take a ST80 or is off-axis guiding better?

I'll get the HEQ5 regardless as the NEQ6 seems to big a jump (mainly in terms of size/weight), its more a choice of scope and considering the future for weight.

Could I mount the mak127 and ED100 or 120 at the same time and use one of them for guiding?

If anybody has any general advice or experience with the ED100 or 120, I'd love to hear it.

(eg potential problems, useful accessories/mods, maintenance)

Oh I haven't mentioned the ED80 as I have heard its an awesome scope but I would appreciate the additional aperture in the 100 or 120.

Shame they don't do an ED150, but then again it prob would be too much for an HEQ5 mount?

The 6" APO's are fairly expensive! (in fact there are a few 4", 5" APO's that are fairly expensive)

Any general advice and experience with the HEQ5 is also appreciated.

(potential problems, useful accessories/mods, maintenance, have read about tuning?)

[gcraib]

The other thing is that the ED100 omes with the focal reducer so that is a potential saver on top of the £500ish price difference for scope and mount.

I have the ED100 and HEQ5 Pro sitting in my basket at FLO, waiting to pull the trigger.

Thought they used to come as a package deal, no?

[swag72]

The ED100 is slower than the ED120 and the ED80 - Even with the reducer on, this is crucial for DSO's. The slower the scope, the longer the exposures that you need. The longer exposures, the more stress is put on the mount. The larger the scope the more stress on the mount. Guiding, and accuarate guiding is absolutely essential.

I have an HEQ5, I had an ED120 - That was my first ever combo (with a DSLR as well) - It was a wrong choice for me. The ED120 is very unforgiving for a person new to AP in my opinion and I wish I'd got an ED80 instead. For the price of an ED120, you can get a decent ED80 second hand. By decent, I mean something like a TV. That's the route I'd take.

I also found that the ED120 (and so the ED100 even more) was a bit of an odd length. It was not long enough for smaller galaxies at 900mm (native) or 765mm (reduced) yet it was giving a focal length that was not to my liking for nebula's. I decided that I preferred the widefield stuff and so smaller scope it was.

Just my ramblings - Sorry!

[gcraib]

Don't apologise... it's a contribution, so thanks.

[gcraib]

I've just had a look on stellarium, you're right the focal length of the ED100 and ED120 are a bit long.

But a review on FLO is making me think twice about the ED80, about the build quality and using with DSLR. I'm not sure what he means.

The review on sky at night seemed to be very good.

What about the equinox series, what is the difference between them and evostar, same optics no?

What do you get for you money with more expensive refractors?

[Moonshane]

I'm no imager but aperture is irrelevant for imaging, it's about focal ratio (determines how quickly you record data) and focal length (determines how big an object you can image and whether the image produced by the scope matches your chip). having said that the mount is more important than the scope.

For visual (my preference) it's about aperture and optical quality.

This disparity is why many imagers (and many visual observers) have more than one scope. I have three - a large fast dob, a small slow dob and a medium fast dob for travel.

[swag72]

What do you get for you money with more expensive refractors?

For me, you get a decent build quality along with decent optics. I am of the opinion that with the generic SW ED80 / Equinox offerings you get decent optics with not so decent build quality!

If you permit me another ramble?!! ............ The focuser on my 120ED was woeful and had to be upgraded to carry the imaging stuff. That cost me over £300 to get a Moonlite. The focuser is held into the tube with 3 screws - That's it. After the focuser upgrade, I could never really get the 120ED to work well for me. Perhaps it was a combination of a number of factors, including the high expectations I had with the scope and the new focuser. It never delivered. I got another scope, a small Pentax 75SDHF. I think this is what people would call a decent scope, probably not in the realms of your Tak's or TV's, but a great performer. Then my images improved, the focuser (a standard rack and pinion) worked a treat and it all came together.

So would I ever buy a SW scope again for imaging? No way. If I was going to buy a scope now and couldn't stretch to a Tak, it would be a Televue without a doubt or certainly I'd look at a Borg as well. Is it worth paying a premium? I suppose that depends on each individual and their experience thus far. Will you see the extra ££'s in the optics? Probably not. Will you see the extra ££'s in the build quality? Yes you will. Will that make you a better imager? It did me, as I finally had confidence in the kit I was using. I knew that night after night things would work togther. Can I put a value on that? Now that's a tricky question!! Id' say that the value fo being able to have confidence in your kit, that it will perform as it should and is taking your imaging to another level is well worth the extra ££'s.

There are many who get fantastic images out of the SW scopes, but on a personal level, they didn't and will never do it for me.

..... End of ramble!!!! Thanks for taking the time to get to the end!!!

[dmahon]

Start with an Ed80 (or Equinox 80 which is even faster). Buy it second hand if you like. You can then always resell it if you decide to spend thousands on a Tak in future.

In contrast to Sarah, I am happy with the focusers on both my scopes. Beware the Ed100 / Equinox 100, as they are on the slow side for imaging.

[gcraib]

Thanks folks, the more ramblings the better!

I was actually looking at the pentax scope the other day, a review said to beware of it because the high quality might put you off other scopes!

What is the ED80/equinox like for visual? Wide field, but small aperture so would see less than in the mak?

[swag72]

I was actually looking at the pentax scope the other day, a review said to beware of it because the high quality might put you off other scopes!

If you see one, buy it!! They're no longer made and there's been precisely 1 for sale on ABS all of 2012 so far - I bought it!!!

[gcraib]

What about an ascension ED80 triplet?

I believe it is the same as the meade 5000 ED80.

Cheaper glass than some of the other APO's but much less expensive than other triplets.

[John]

Low cost triplets ?

Have a look at this:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/blog/affordable-triplet-refractors.html