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Dreaming.....

cyborg421

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cyborg421

cyborg421

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I currently have a Skywatcher 10" Flextube which, in one sense, I am more than happy with, but now and again I keep getting a severe dose of aperture fever and longing for a bigger scope. I am 52 and weight is an issue with me. I can currently manage the 20kg of the base and 15kg of the tube but I am not getting any younger and minimise lifting as far as possible. I do take the scope to dark (within a reasonable travelling distance) sites and it does increase my enjoyment as I normally live in a city.

Does anyone know of any large aperture, lightweignt (obviously within reason as I know mirrors are the heaviest part of a scope) scopes can break down to a reasonable size?

I know they're not going to be cheap if they exist.

As I said just dreaming .......

Simon :laugh:

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swamp thing

swamp thing

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Hi Simon

The trick with transporting a large aperture Dob to dark skies is to minimise any lifting. This is the ultimate aim of any scope builder.

What you need to look and think about is how are you going to get the mirror and rocker box from its storage place and into the vehicle, then unloading/loading again at the other end.

wheelbarrow handles (with big pneumatic tyres) fitted to the rocker box coupled with some ramps should do it. You may need to look at your preferred means of transport and maybe look at a vehicle with no lip on the tailgate so wheeling the scope in and out is easy.

If you can avoid any lifting there's no reason why a really big scope can't be in your future.

Modern large Dobs are often as small as the mirror/rocker box assembly in transport and storage. Truss poles on large Dobs should go in most regular vehicles or on a roof rack.

The upper tube assembly although looking large and bulky is in fact very light and even 30" scopes UTA,s can easily be handled on your own (although by this size sheer bulk will mean a small van or trailer is really required).

Remember nearly all the weight in a big Dob is in the mirror/rocker box the rest is lightweight.

There is more heavy lifting required to set up an 8" SCT on a suitable mount than an Obsession 25" monster, because the Obsession is always wheeled about and only the UTA is lifted anywhere.

Check em out.

http://www.obsessiontelescopes.com/

Or

http://www.webstertelescopes.com/

Or even

http://www.teeterstelescopes.com/

Or for a European take

http://www.dobsonians.co.uk/

Or if your a handy chap why not build your own

http://www.willbell.com/tm/dobtel.htm

This is what I'm halfway through doing myself ;)

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umadog

umadog

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Simon, it certainly is possible to get a very respectable aperture in a manageable package. I know plenty of people who are in their fifties or older who can easily manage >16" scopes. As Steve says, with wheelbarrow handles you're never lifting the full weight of the mirror box. You can have the handles as long as you like so as to be lifting as little as you like (within reason, of course). The only time I find the weight a problem is when I have to remove the mirror box for maintenance. Then again, in much heavier scopes people have to resort to using a winch for maintenance operations. So there's always a way. On the subject of which, my last car did have a lip and I dealt with that by using hinged ramps. That made it possible to wheel the rocker and mirror box assembly in and out of the car without worrying about the lip.

The manufacturers above are very good but some are very pricey. There's a cheaper option: http://www.hubbleoptics.com/ Their 16" weighs in at under 30 kg, I believe, and it will cost about a third to half the price of a "premium" scope. By premium I mean one where the optics were handmade in the West rather than mass-produced in the East. This is possible because it has a sandwich mirror. I haven't seen test results from those mirrors, though. The Sumerian Canopus line would rival the Hubble Optics and be a wooden scope made in Europe. Total weight would depend strongly on mirror thickness. Thinner mirrors tend to cost more because they're harder to make. Mass produced mirrors are thicker and heavier (and so cool more slowly).

Oh, and the prices are much cheaper if you buy second hand...

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cyborg421

cyborg421

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Thanks for the replies. It has given me some avenues to explore.

I think the main lifting would be in and out of the car and wheelbarrow handles don't actually resolve this.

I like the idea of second hand scopes but I assume they don't come up very often.

I know about astro mart but are there other placesI should be looking for second hand ones. I bet they don't come up very often.

Simon

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DirkSteele

DirkSteele

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I think the main lifting would be in and out of the car and wheelbarrow handles don't actually resolve this.

I have seen a couple of large Dob users construct a small ramp which latches on to the boot of the car so the wheels and wheelbarrow handles can still be utilised.

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Saleratus

Saleratus

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Check out the Starmaster 16.5 FX. I have one and am able to put it together by myself (and I'm 48 with an iffy back). Using the wheelbarrow handles, it's fairly easy to ramp it up into the hatch-back of a car once it's disassembled. This is a wonderfully solid scope, and it's fast focal ratio means you won't need a step or ladder to observe with it.

Dream away....

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swamp thing

swamp thing

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Never even occurred to me the hinged ramps Rob, simple idea makes it viable in pretty much any car. :)

Always worth keeping an eye on the second hand market, you can pick up some real bargains in respect to arge scopes. It seems that without a proper plan on loading, unloading, and storage few people wanna live with big scopes.

Without things like ramps and wheelbarrow handles your relationship with a big Dob will be a short one. If you think the 10" is heavy, believe me you won't want to be lifting a 16" scope about.

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swamp thing

swamp thing

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You would probably be best making up the ramps yourself bespoke.

The hinge would sit on the upstanding lip on the back of the car and the ramp sections would go both into the back of the car and down to the ground. The section extending to the ground would obviously need to be longer than the other short length that would be required to roll it into the back.

The ramp would be stowed in the back of the motor.

I'll try and find a pic of something similar.

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umadog

umadog

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I'll try to remember to post a pic of my ramps soon.

On amart at least there are premium dobs for sale all the time. Catch is that most are in the US. Often I see deals where a scope is being sold at close to half price. Shipping to the UK is possible but a hassle that not all sellers are interested in tackling.

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LukeSkywatcher

LukeSkywatcher

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Couldn't agree more. Certainly a scope worth saving up for.

I think Sumarian have stopped taking orders for the moment. I guess they are bogged under with work. The scopes are all hand made (for the most part).

Their prices are also very attractive. One of their ranges (Propus) includes a 10" scope (optics included) for about 850 euro.

Above all else they really look stunning and look like the craftsmanship is top quality.

OK...................i'll stop drooling now.

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Qualia

Qualia

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Yes, you're right, Skywatcher. The Sumerian has a beautiful range of scopes. From what I figure the Propus range won't ever be built again which means he'll be only building Alkaids from 10" to 14" and the Canopus. If that is correct, the cheapest 10" will probably come out at about €1100 with GSO mirrors. Sumerian make an excellent looking travel scope and as you have said, at very attractive prices, but I figure if you don't need to travel, they may not be the best option.

Thanks for the photos, Umadog. You're a lucky man to own such a gem.

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LukeSkywatcher

LukeSkywatcher

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Yes, you're right, Skywatcher. The Sumerian has a beautiful range of scopes. From what I figure the Propus range won't ever be built again which means he'll be only building Alkaids from 10" to 14" and the Canopus. If that is correct, the cheapest 10" will probably come out at about €1100 with GSO mirrors. Sumerian make an excellent looking travel scope and as you have said, at very attractive prices, but I figure if you don't need to travel, they may not be the best option.

Thanks for the photos, Umadog. You're a lucky man to own such a gem.

Even the Alkaid range of 10"-14" costing about 1K is a very attractive offer. Why do you say:"but I figure if you don't need to travel, they may not be the best option".

I assume they are more bulky? and not sold as "travel scopes".

Either way..........i love the look of these scopes and the craftmanship and would LOVE to own one.

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umadog

umadog

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That's one reason, Paul, but not the only one. A 10" solid tube or conventional truss tube is more solid. You can mount a Telrad on one of those, you can't with the Sumerian travel-scope. To use a Paracorr on the Sumerian you'd need to add weights to the bottom end. It's easier to mount a filter slide to a conventional Dob. A convention Dob maintains collimation a little better and it has a proper mirror cell. On the travel-scope, the primary sits on three nylon screws and adjusting primary tilt is a little awkward. It's easier to mount proper dew heaters on a conventional Dob and the primary is better protected. On the other hand, you stuff a conventional 10" Dob under an airplane seat. So it's all about compromises.

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