Confused over which scope to choose

[Bracken606]

Apologies if you have responded to this question that was included in my introduction post, but it was suggested to repost it here as it would get the appropriate target audience.

I have yet to buy a telescope but I have got my decision (i think) down to the following two options but could use some experienced input to steer me in the right (if there is one) direction.

1. Skywatcher Skyliner 250px Flextube Synscan Goto or

2. Celestron CPC 925 GPS (XLT)

For the price of the 250Px i can also add onto that several X-Cel LX eyepieces (or similar) to get to the same cost as the CPC with 1 supplied eyepiece.

I have no interest in AP despite owning an EOS20D, which is used for nature photography.

Which one would you suggest if you were in the market for a scope of this size.

Have i been wise to leave out refractors, are these better geared for imaging?

I should add that i am a total beginner but have attended 2 sessions at my local astro club and have used binoculars and a starmap (printed monthly from the internet) for 2 months.

Thanks

Simon.

[DirkSteele]

£1000-£1850 is a lot of money for a 1st scope. Are you definitely sure that Astronomy is a hobby that will occupy you for many years to come? There are more telescopes than we could all count sitting in cupboards and attics of new astronomers who quickly lost interest and now only collect dust, rather than photons.

I have owned the older big brother of the Celestron CPC 9.25" for about 10 years (the Nexstar 11 GPS) and it has served me very well as a visual use telescope. The GOTO functionality will certainly help as many new astronomers find navigating around the sky difficult and this often leads to frustration. The 9.25" Celestron has been a well respected optical tube for many years, thanks in part to it having a longer focal length primary and lower power secondary which gives a flatter field at the focal plane and reduces optical aberations.

I am not familiar with the Skywatcher, so I will leave comments on that one to individuals who have used it.

I am a big fan of refractors, owning two myself. However, making lens is far more difficult and expensive than mirrors, so you will get far less bang for your buck, aperture wise, if you went down the refractor path. Which is not to say you should not consider it. The best telescope, is the one you use most often.

Whichever scope you chose, make sure to utilise the experience of the members of your local club. Especially for collimating the scope correctly. Even if the collimation of the scope optics is slightly off, it can have a big impact on how the telescope will perform.

[Bracken606]

Thanks for the feedback, and totally understand the need for caution in buying a 1st scope that may not be used. I have had first hand experience of this when approached by friends to teach them photography and after a few months their (thankfully entry level) camera is gathering dust. I will not be buying for a few months yet and intend to continue going to my local club, but at present is is a very old club with only a few members and do not have the range of equipment to fully assess scopes types. (hence the request to SGL).

The reason i am looking at these scopes, is that i do not want to have to upgrade at a later date. Although i understand the risks this takes in a new hobby.

The flextube is looking good as it will fit standing up (once retracted) on its mount in my car, but i love the engineering and design of the CPC. Dark sites with my local club are one night a month.

Many thanks

Simon.

[jabberwocky]

Are you sure you want to go down the goto route?

For me half the fun is finding the objects myself, if you got the basic dob you could either buy better eyepieces or go up in size, or just save some money for later

[Bracken606]

Hi Jabberwocky, i was hoping (if i went with the Dob) to get a motorised mount without goto handset and connect to stellarium to guide it, but it looks like the 250/300 is either all or none regarding automation.

In reply to your question, it had occured to me to go without the goto mount, but thought that this would add even more complication to a newbie.

[carlc]

What a choice (no jealousy - honestly)

Personally I'd buy an ED refractor but out of the two you have shown I would probably go for the Dob and eyepieces.

However it does depend on where it's going to be kept and how much moving you're going to have to do as it appears that the 250 flextube without motors is 27.5kg and the whole Celestron set up is about 38kg. Having said that the Celestron can be broken down into tripod and OTA and I assume the GoTo truss Dob can come off it's mount as well.

[Bracken606]

Hi Carl, yes both of the scopes can be dismounted for storage/transport. I am lucky to have a conservatory that backs straight onto the back garden where it will be stored, with 1 small step to get onto the patio or lawn for viewing. The garden is SW facing with only slight interuption from a large tree to the north. The car is a CRV so transporting is no problem to and from any dark site visits, just the weight to be accounted for .

[Mr Spock]

For someone new to observing I would have thought the 250 would be the best choice. You can still do planetary photography with this scope but you can't do deep sky photography with either.

With the spare cash you can get some really good eyepieces and quality here does make a difference.

[StarryBob]

I am going to assume you have some experience of astronomy to want to buy a scope for this amount of money mainly because you can lose a lot of money on new equipment in that price range, so you must be sure.

I picked up my equipment from people who bought it new then decided after a few weeks of cloudy nights and cold winters it wasn't for them.

Now after raining on your parade a bit my choice from those two if it's purely visual, many say this then change their mind within a month of buying a scope, would be the Dob. I have a good friend who has a flextube goto dob and it is a very comfortable way to view the stars etc. The good thing about the goto dob is you can still push it to where you want to be and hit the goto at any time and it will find it from there, unlike an EQ mount which has to be moved by the handset or the goto gets all confused if it doesn't start from the home position. You could still do lunar and planetary ap with a goto dob but dso imaging is a no go so make sure you don't want to go down this route. They are heavy, you can lift them in one piece but I hurt my back lifting his whereas I can take the weight off mine and the tube and then have three lighter parts, the dob tube comes off but is heavier than a standard tube with all the trusses etc. Still for visual and comfort they are superb.

If I were getting into astronomy now I would still do it the way I did it lately (just got back into it) and buy used at first, my 200P and synscan goto EQ5 cost me £300. This way if I think I want a better set up then I can get all or most of my money back and move up or obviously if I give up it has cost me buttons.

Just my opinion.

Bob

[Bracken606]

Hi Michael, thanks for the feedback. The Dob looks like it is winning on flexibility and weight issues at the moment.

[StarryBob]

Incidentally one of these is a bargain and you can update to goto with a handset upgrade

[Bracken606]

Hi Bob, thanks for the valued input, i had thought about used gear, not from a monetary point of view, but more from a point that a total beginner should be wise and not foolish in initial purchases.

A point of caution with used gear is its condition, primarly the optics, i have experience of used optics with my camera gear and have bought lenses before that proved a false economy (either low end models or optic damage). now i only buy new 'L' glass for my camera and have never been dissapointed.

As stated in my post above, i am only into astronomy for 2 months so far, outside of a pair of bino's, but will not be getting a scope for 2-3 months so will have some time behind a club scope, albiet these are summer months, but there is little i can do about that.

At the moment this is just an excersize is assessing which type of scope is more suited to my viewing needs which are, no astro photography, planets and DSO viewing only and able to get into the car for club nights.

Many thanks,

Simon.

[StarryBob]

You will find most used scopes are collection only so you can check the optics, with reflectors that is just mirrors which are easy to see.

[E621Keith]

To get a good visual experience you need good optics, eyepiece and mount.

The CPC 925 has great optics and mount but the kit eyepiece is poor.

The 250px GOTO also have poor kit eyepiece, but since it's cheaper you can get a set of Celestron X-cel LX which will make the view much better. For that reason, I'd go for the dob.

Unlike photography gears, astronomy gear are usually really well look after. Photography gear may suffer all sort of abuse, especially if they were once owned by a pro, it get uses A LOT sometimes in the rain, mud, sand, dropped etc... Astronomy gear on the other hand are never used in the rain, don't get taken to a swamp or a football game, and thanks to our weather, even the most heavily used astronomy equipment will have a relatively easy life compare to optics used in other application.

[Bracken606]

Thanks for your input Bob & Keith, much appreciated. I want to put in some more time with my local club, but at the moment the 250PX is looking to be my future purchase.

Many thanks,

Simon.

[Saleratus]

Here's something that you MIGHT consider:

Get a good 10" dob without goto or tracking.

Get an equatorial platform to put your dob on. These are a lot simpler and more intuitive than goto. They simply track, but you move your dob around just as if it were untracked.

That is the system I prefer for my dobs because I like to keep the experience as simple as possible and enjoy finding things for myself.

[Bracken606]

One scope i had looked at for similar money to the CPC was the Skywatcher Explorer 250PDS EQ6 Pro Goto or its slightly smaller brother the 200PDS with the same mount, but the thought of setting up the mount and polar aligning scares me to death, especially after seeing the video by Dion on Astrology Shed.

Am i worrying for nothing and will this future proof me if i get infected with a webcam virus or is it as hard as it looks.

Simon.

Update: Scratch the idea of the above mount, i have just read the 'In a mighty dilema' thread in the beginners section and found out what a pain this size scope on an EQ mount is going to be with scope rotating and lifting etc.

The Dob or CPC will be so much easier and more importantly suited for my visual needs.

[sunshine185]

You could save yourself a hell of a lot of money by ditching the goto, you'd still have exactly the same views with a lot less expense. You could get yourself a 250px, even the solid tube fits on the backseat of a car, then put some setting circles on the dob and buy a wixey digital angle gauge. Stellarium will give you the coordinates of an object, then move the dob matching the setting circle and the wixey to the same coordinates and you have found your object. Total cost is short of £500 brand new.

[andrew63]

You could go to one of the star parties in the autumn. You would have the chance to speak to a lot of people and more importantly look through a a range of different telescopes which could well alter your opinions.

andrew

[DirkSteele]

If you did find yourself infected by "the webcam virus" and by that you mean planetary photography, the Celestron CPC would still be suitable, despite the Alt Az mounting, as field rotation will not really be a factor over the likely durations of imaging when stacking the images. Deep Sky Astrophotography is a different matter, and you would require a wedge....which some individuals have reservations about.

[StarryBob]

The P DS series of scopes are mainly for imaging I believe and often need a coma corrector for visual use as they are a very fast scope.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I am very much as SCT man (even though I built a little Dob for the kids). They are extremely compact, and very easy to set up. I can take my C8 with me on my holidays (with all the camping equipment, kids, missus, and her shoes) without my missus raising eyebrows. Even when we had a little Peugeot 106 (but no kids) I brought my scope to France in 1999 to see the eclipse. I do not think an 8" dob would have been an option in that case. The EP that came with my C8 was a Plossl 26mm which was fine, certainly for an F/10 scope.

Having said that, dobs are great value for money. I used Olly Penrice's 20" last summer at it was a real treat to use.

Mine did come with an EQ mount, and I really love that. Polar alignment for visual is dead easy! Set the mount to the right latitude (simply read of a scale), set up the tripod with the leg labelled 'N' to the North. Level using the spirit level, and you have enough accuracy for visual. I keep objects in the FOV for 15-20min easily.

On balance, I like star-hopping on an EQ mount more, because I tend to think in RA and DEC moves, which stay the same throughout the night (and year, actually), unlike moves in Alt-Az.

[Bracken606]

Thank you all for your help...whilst i am a couple of months away from a purchase i feel better armed to make a decision. The non-automated goto dob makes great sense once i understood what setting circles and a Wixley digital angle guide are. This hugely reduces the money needed for the scope and allows for new EP's etc straight away.

I didnt realise that the SCT on EQ was so easy to set up for visual, always imagined the mount needed marking on the scale for home position then needed polar alignment. This makes great sense getting an SCT on an EQ which allows for the move to imaging at a later date if it is required. The SCT is more expensive but EP's can be bought the following payday i guess....

Errr did i say i felt better armed for that decision.