Beginner Barrage

[iam]

... of questions

I hate posting in 'beginners sections' on forums because it tends to mean I haven't done my research, but I've done a fair few hours of searching/reading on this forum and other sites and second opinions would be appreciated.

I've just got the Celestron 102GT from Costco and I've had it out for three nights in the freezing cold since. It took a while to get the auto-align working (down to me and BST...), so on the first to ventures out I was just guiding it with the controller. First impressions are that it's fantastic, or rather extremely impressive for my beginner eyes - I never imagined I'd get to see the bands and moons of Jupiter with a scope for £150, rather I was expecting a fuzzy blob/dot to be as good as it gets. The first night was perhaps the best - with the clearest 'seeing' - and I've been hooked for the month since reading. The scope also offers stunning clarity of the moon, and the second and third night were spent frantically looking at craters through the scope and at their names on Google Image searched maps (a moon atlas will have to be bought...).

The only downsides as far as I can see are: the vibrations - I've got it sat on top of a patio table as the scope is so long I'd have to be sat on the floor to look up through it, which means I've got vibrations both from the scope/mount and the table to contend with - the slightest bit of wind and it's practically unusable; the focuser - it's really quite stiff, meaning you virtually can't see if something is in focus because of the amount of vibration given off.

Anyway, as I say I think I'm hooked, but I'm trying not to give in to my love of gadgets and splurge on stuff I'll never use. I want to make sure it's a hobby I'll keep at so invest in drips and drabs. So I wanted to start off with a few improvements:

- Auto-focuser to stop vibrations

I can't see one offered specifically for Celestron scopes, though I noted someone else on here (apologies I forget the username) used a SkyWatcher Auto Focuser - can anybody confirm that focuser will work with this scope? If not, is there any way for me to check?

- Eyepieces/lenses

After reading numerous guides, I was going to start by getting a couple of Celestron Omni Plossl lenses - thinking of the 6x and 15x to begin with?

But then I saw that Celestron do complete Omni Plossl lens kits - would this be a better buy/investment? Does anyone know if the kit use the same Plossl lenses as the individual ones?

- Tripod/scope Weights

I've seen a few people on here say a small sandbag on the tripod tray help a lot with the vibrations on this scope, which I'll try the next time I'm out (hopefully tonight!) - any other tips for helping to reduce them?

- Astrophotography

Initially I was all for getting the NexImage - but looking at people's results (not that they're not great!) the images are really small resolution and quite fuzzy, which made me think it might be better to hold on and look at a normal camera later on. I doubt I'll be able to stretch to a DSLR any time soon, so would something like a Canon Powershot be of any use? I know you can get custom firmware for them that greatly enhance their features (RAW capture, bracketing, USB/PC control etc) which makes them sound perfect for use with a scope - but they don't have screw-fit lenses (i.e. they have attached zoom lenses) which I'm guessing will rule them out?

My 'grand plan' was to take some photos and get them printed out on canvas, but at such low resolutions being provided by the NexImage I guess that's out of the question. Any advice on whether the NexImage is worth it, and whether I'm expecting too much from astrophotography would be appreciated.

- Software

I want to get the scope hooked up to Stellarium, and had a couple of questions hopefully someone will be able to answer:

When you're controlling the scope with the Stellarium plugin - can you tell it/does it know where it's looking? So as I'm slewing the scope it changes it's orientation if you see what I mean. On the same subject - if I get a USB GPS receiver for the laptop, is there anyway to do the alignment process via Stellarium? That is, Stellarium will know where it is in the world and what time it is, so I can then line the scope and then Stellarium up with a star/planet - and away it goes? Or is that too much to ask

- Cables

The prices charged for serial/USB cables are atrocious on some of the astronomy sites (£16 for 10m!!!) - can anyone recommend somewhere to get a good USB -> Serial (DB9) -> Serial (RJ11?) cable for connecting the scope to my laptop?

Any/all advice appreciated!!

[iam]

Oh lawd sorry about the essay!

[Ags]

"My 'grand plan' was to take some photos and get them printed out on canvas, but at such low resolutions being provided by the NexImage I guess that's out of the question. Any advice on whether the NexImage is worth it, and whether I'm expecting too much from astrophotography would be appreciated."

Planets form very small images so even high resolution cameras do not produce large images (in terms of pixels). A DSLR would not help in the regard - you would just capture a lot of black sky around the planet, and the image would be poor because the point of a webcam is you take 10 or more frames a second.

There are many excellent images of planets posted on this forum taken with modified webcams (which is all the neximage is).

DSLRs are more suited to photgraphing large objects like nebulae or the moon.

[DOBBY]

The 1st thing you need is a tripod that goes on the floor...

For any astro-photograhy.. . you need the sturdiest mount you can afford

forget buying eyepieces or anything else till you get the mount sorted

try & get a copy of the book 'Making Every Photon Count' it'll save you money & headaches & expensive mistakes

[iam]

"My 'grand plan' was to take some photos and get them printed out on canvas, but at such low resolutions being provided by the NexImage I guess that's out of the question. Any advice on whether the NexImage is worth it, and whether I'm expecting too much from astrophotography would be appreciated."

Planets form very small images so even high resolution cameras do not produce large images (in terms of pixels). A DSLR would not help in the regard - you would just capture a lot of black sky around the planet, and the image would be poor because the point of a webcam is you take 10 or more frames a second.

There are many excellent images of planets posted on this forum taken with modified webcams (which is all the neximage is).

DSLRs are more suited to photgraphing large objects like nebulae or the moon.

I am definitely interested in taking photos of the moon, but my understanding is that this scope (i.e. smallish aperature refractor) won't be much good for DSOs?

There are indeed some great images on this forum of the planets - the only thing that is lacking is resolution which means printing on canvas is out of the question - presuming people aren't shrinking images for posting!

I don't mind a fair bit of black as long as the planet/object focus/resolution is good - see attached

The 1st thing you need is a tripod that goes on the floor...

For any astro-photograhy.. . you need the sturdiest mount you can afford

forget buying eyepieces or anything else till you get the mount sorted

try & get a copy of the book 'Making Every Photon Count' it'll save you money & headaches & expensive mistakes

Thanks for the advice I'll definitely get the book, I've seen it recommended in dozens of threads here

As for the tripod, it is about five feet (maybe more!) tall, but because of the length of the scope when it's pointed up the eyepiece is at about 3-4ft from floor level. At 6ft 3 this means I'm sat on the floor

Unfortunately looking at the cost of respected mounts I doubt I'll be able to buy one any time soon, so it's a case of trying to make the best of what I've got.

I've been out tonight for an hour, wasn't too dark so there wasn't much to see apart from some time spent looking at the moon and navigating my way around the craters Jupiter was out and bright, but the atmosphere wasn't up to it unfortunately.

[iam]

- Eyepieces/lenses

After reading numerous guides, I was going to start by getting a couple of Celestron Omni Plossl lenses - thinking of the 6x and 15x to begin with?

But then I saw that Celestron do complete Omni Plossl lens kits - would this be a better buy/investment? Does anyone know if the kit use the same Plossl lenses as the individual ones?

Can anyone offer any advice on the above? I want to get the lenses ordered today so I can use them at the weekend

[Ags]

The only practical way to increase pixel resolution on planets is to increase the focal length of the scope taking the image. The very best planetary images are taken at focal lengths on 7 or 10 meters. You need a very big scope and a substantial mount to sustain that sort of focal length... :-)

[Mr Q]

Iam - Asking questions in the beginner's forum IS proper research so never feel weird about doing so. Like the great responses to your questions, lots of people on the SGL are happy to help anyone starting out in the hobby. And remember, the only dumb questions are the ones not asked! So feel free to pick our brains. After all, all of us were beginners at some point in time.

[x6gas]

Can anyone offer any advice on the above? I want to get the lenses ordered today so I can use them at the weekend

I went through exactly the same thing when I bought my first (for a long time) scope this time last year. The answer is, don't do it. I was told that the EPs are not much cop. The Revelation set is supposed to be better (and cheaper too, IIRC) but I would really advise you to hold off and to use what you have until you've really bottomed out where it is best to spend your money.

I have a couple of decent(ish) EPs now, but in the end I spend most of my time imaging so it would have been a complete waste of money for me and the resale value is very low.

Just my 2p!

[Mike Hawtin]

I personally would not invest too much at this stage, eyepieces or otherwise, I would perhaps buy the Celestron shorty barlow as this will be a keeper whatever you go on to in the future. Just learn to use what you already have to explore the sky, 102mm is plenty for a beginner and will keep you busy for quite a long time, meanwhile you slowly build up experience which will stand you in good stead when you move on to bigger and better things. When I started out I bought loads of stuff, most of which I never really used very much, too much enthusiasm and not enough patience! This can be an expensive hobby and it's easy to get carried away.

[x6gas]

Oh and small aperture refractors are perfect for DSO imaging - take a look at the deep-sky imaging board.

The only thing is that ideally you want a very well colour corrected scope (APO or ACHRO) and those get pretty pricey, pretty quickly... But hey, get the most out of what you've got; I'm sure you'll get some good images and then you can join the Dark Side with the rest of us AP brigade!

[rowan46]

Iam - Asking questions in the beginner's forum IS proper research so never feel weird about doing so. Like the great responses to your questions, lots of people on the SGL are happy to help anyone starting out in the hobby. And remember, the only dumb questions are the ones not asked! So feel free to pick our brains. After all, all of us were beginners at some point in time.

I agree with everything you say but would like to point out I have asked some very stupid questions on this forum. people have been very nice about it though:o

[iam]

Thanks for all the replies guys (and girls?) - much appreciated!

The only practical way to increase pixel resolution on planets is to increase the focal length of the scope taking the image. The very best planetary images are taken at focal lengths on 7 or 10 meters. You need a very big scope and a substantial mount to sustain that sort of focal length... :-)

Fantastic bit of info thanks! Tbh I hadn't realised that DSOs such as galaxies were actually bigger in the sky than the Moon and planets! Here's hoping for some good DSO images!

Iam - Asking questions in the beginner's forum IS proper research so never feel weird about doing so. Like the great responses to your questions, lots of people on the SGL are happy to help anyone starting out in the hobby. And remember, the only dumb questions are the ones not asked! So feel free to pick our brains. After all, all of us were beginners at some point in time.

Much obliged!

I went through exactly the same thing when I bought my first (for a long time) scope this time last year. The answer is, don't do it. I was told that the EPs are not much cop. The Revelation set is supposed to be better (and cheaper too, IIRC) but I would really advise you to hold off and to use what you have until you've really bottomed out where it is best to spend your money.

I have a couple of decent(ish) EPs now, but in the end I spend most of my time imaging so it would have been a complete waste of money for me and the resale value is very low.

Just my 2p!

See below! :)

I personally would not invest too much at this stage, eyepieces or otherwise, I would perhaps buy the Celestron shorty barlow as this will be a keeper whatever you go on to in the future. Just learn to use what you already have to explore the sky, 102mm is plenty for a beginner and will keep you busy for quite a long time, meanwhile you slowly build up experience which will stand you in good stead when you move on to bigger and better things. When I started out I bought loads of stuff, most of which I never really used very much, too much enthusiasm and not enough patience! This can be an expensive hobby and it's easy to get carried away.

Oops - before I'd seen this I might have already ordered the following after trawling through the forums some more looking for people with the same predicament as me, and from some superb and much appreciated advice from Alan over at Sky's the Limit:

- 8mm and 25mm BST Explorer EPs

- Variable Polarising Filter

- NexImage (unbranded) CCD

And I may have also bought a USB -> Serial cable kit and an auto-focuser

Think I spent around £250 all in all, and I won't be buying anything else for a long while yet! (I hope!)

As you say it's easy to get carried away (as I may well have just done!) with a new hobby, so I'll curtail any further spending for a good while.

Oh and small aperture refractors are perfect for DSO imaging - take a look at the deep-sky imaging board.

The only thing is that ideally you want a very well colour corrected scope (APO or ACHRO) and those get pretty pricey, pretty quickly... But hey, get the most out of what you've got; I'm sure you'll get some good images and then you can join the Dark Side with the rest of us AP brigade!

Excellent heading over there now!

[iam]

Inpired by welshrob - took a few pics of the moon with my iPhone, not too good but not too bad either considering this was through double glazing (conservatory) and it's quite a misty night

Moon by lmorgan69a, on Flickr

Can't wait for the EPs and the rest of the kit to arrive - fingers crossed tomorrow so I can spend some time playing with it over the weekend