Astrophotography - how to get better images?

[Javert]

Ok, so I'm fairly new here and, although I've been using my DSLR for a couple of years, I'm only just starting out on Astrophotography.

I've been reading through some threads on here, but still can't really work out what I need to do to get some good images of the moon and planets (I'll sort out DSO's later!).

I'm using a Sky-Watcher Explorer 200P on and EQ5 mount with my Canon 550D DSLR connected via a t-ring adapter. I believe this gives me Prime Focus (?)

But......

How do I get detailed images of, lets say for example, Jupiter? When taking a photo with the setup described above, I end up with just a little dot that, when zoomed, is a small image of Jupiter with very little detail.

Is it a case of trial and error with various ISO / Shutter speed settings, or do I have to take numerous low quality images and stack them?

Is there any way of actually imaging what I see through my eyepiece?

I'm constantly telling people how amazing things look through my telescope but am then unable to show evidence of this with poor quality images, mainly because I can't the magnification with my camera that I get with with telescope / eyepiece.

Thanks in advance for any advice or tips you can provide.

See below for a couple taken last night.

[RikM]

Getting any kind of detail on the planets with a DSLR on a 200P is all but impossible because of the small size of the planet. The size of the camera sensor gives you about the same field as if you were using 30x magnification. The cheapest way to image planets successfully with your scope is to get a 3x or 5x barlow and a little web cam to record avi's then use Registax to stack the frames into a composite.

[steppenwolf]

The key to collecting good detail in planetary and lunar images is indeed to take lots of them and stack them. However, for planetary imaging in particular, a DSLR camera is not the the best tool for the job - a much faster frame rate camera is required. At the low cost end, a webcam would be a good start but there are faster cameras with larger sensors that would be even better.

The other issue with the planets is image scale and here, a longer focal length telescope is required to get close in to the action.

[Javert]

Thanks guys.

Always thought the prime focus method wouldn't work for this. Guess it may actually be better for DSO's instead of planets.

Can anyone suggest a decent webcam that's Mac compatible that I can attach to my 2x Barlow (1.25") ?

I'm more than happy to go down this route and stack the individual images from the webcam movie.

[Javert]

I've been checking various webcams and it doesn't look like there's too many that are officially compatible with Mac OSX, but I've got a Kodak Zi8 HD pocket camcorder so I might try first to see if there's any way I can connect it to an eyepiece or Barlow.

[Slick]

The canon 550D has a facility to use only the centre of the sensor as a 640x480 video camera, effectively giving you a massive increase in magnification which should work better than a webcam.

[Javert]

Thanks Slick. I have tried that but couldn't get the camera to take a still whilst recording the video and I couldn't see any way of changing the ISO whilst recording video and ended up with a big bright blob for Jupiter.

[Slick]

Have you tried putting the footage through software like registax?

[Williams]

Hey Javert, If i'd taken the moon pic i'd be pretty happy with that Although I'm easily pleased!

[Javert]

Hey Javert, If i'd taken the moon pic i'd be pretty happy with that Although I'm easily pleased!

Thanks. I am happy with it, but I was just expecting to get a bit closer.

Anyway, tried again last night after being told my x2 Barlow has a thread on it, so took a few more photos and managed to get some half decent shots, especially of the moon. Managed toget a bit closer to Jupiter too but I may look at getting a x4 or x5 Barlow (as suggested by RikMcRae) and seeing what that can do. Even if the image is a bit dimmer, I can always boost the ISO on my camera.

Slick, I've not tried Registax (is it PC only) but I have downloaded a free piece of stacking software for my Mac. I managed to get a very short video of Jupiter with my Kodak Zi8 camcorder last night, but was just holding it to the eyepiece by hand so it was very difficult to get a stable image. Might try again with the movie crop mode on my 550D and see if I can get any better results.

[Jannis]

Thanks Slick. I have tried that but couldn't get the camera to take a still whilst recording the video and I couldn't see any way of changing the ISO whilst recording video and ended up with a big bright blob for Jupiter.

the clue is not to take a still pic, but short video, and then run it through avi-stack or registax to get out the details.

go to camera setting, under video, and select manual exposure, then you can select iso and shutter manually.

i have same setup as you and can confirm it works, but i haven't been able to get much details out of jupiter either.

[badgers]

Can anyone suggest a decent webcam that's Mac compatible that I can attach to my 2x Barlow (1.25") ?

I'm more than happy to go down this route and stack the individual images from the webcam movie.

Check out macam. A lot of webcams are not 'officially' supported by macintosh, but these guys have written an open source package that makes them work well and totally free.

They have a list of supported cameras on their website.

For EOS videoing been using eos movie_rec (also freeware) on my mac to take 5x zoom footage direct from a portion of the canon eos sensor at about 20fps, its made my jupiter images much much better as it records AVIs which you can get into registax (windows) or Lynkeos (mac). You can set it to TV mode and iso 800 then you can control the brightness.

The AVIs it makes are weird, use iskysoft movie converter to make them into quicktime movies without recompression.

This link is one of the movies from my currently untracked mount using eos movierec and a 2x barlow. Quality on youtube is a bit pants, the original was pretty sharp.

I'm struggling to get registax or lynkeos to work properly on these untracked movies, so the best I've managed so far is:

Hopefully that gives you some more options.

Badgers

[DaveT]

Hi badgers -- check out the latest of magic lantern, it allows slow frame video recording down to 1 or 2 frames per sec, allowing you longer exposures per frame to grab that extra bit of light, plus ISO ramping etc -- looks good mate. if i get a clear night im gonna try it out. kudos for lynkeos, although im still just starting out with it, so learning curve started.

Cheers

Dave

[Javert]

the clue is not to take a still pic, but short video, and then run it through avi-stack or registax to get out the details.

go to camera setting, under video, and select manual exposure, then you can select iso and shutter manually.

i have same setup as you and can confirm it works, but i haven't been able to get much details out of jupiter either.

Think I've sorted the movie settings out now. Well, I've got manual selected and I seem to be able to change ISO and shutter speeds (even though it won't allow a still to be taken in movie crop mode).

I can't wait for this snow & fog to disappear so that I can get outside and try these settings.

Hopefully I should be able to get a decent video clip on my DSLR and then stack with Lynkeos.

Depending on how well it works, it'll save me having to get a webcam and I may also consider getting a x4 or x5 Barlow.

Thanks for everyone's help / advice / tips on this as astrophotography was one of the main reasons I bought my telescope.

Presumably, for nebula's, I'd be better of just taking numerous long exposure photo's rather than a video?

[tony r]

hi javert.have seen your pictures of the moon and jupiter.me and you have the same problem's.i to am using a dslr with tmount on my astromaster 130.your photos are the same as what i have taken.our problem is that we are limited with focus.using the dslr's will only do good photos of deep space object and the moon because it's close.if your doing things the same as me then your proberly only able to get things in focus using only barlow lenses.tnis is the only way.iv'e just got myself a x3 barlow lens to see if this helps.will also try using photostacker as well.look forward to seeing more pictures from you as you progress!.any tips for me will be wellcome.good luck.

[DaveT]

Hi guys, thought i would try a bit of stacking (first attempt), so i have posted my before and after results. The video was taken with my eos 550d through the telescope with no barlow or filters etc. I took about 2.5 minutes of the moon, and then using lynkeos i narrowed it to about 30 seconds to stack. The end result i have perhaps over sharpened, but it certainly helped to bring out the details. The video from the EOS was full HD 24fps, saved to its sd card. I then took the movie file from the card and added it in lynkeos as a new image and went from there.

Hope any of the above helps

Dave

[Javert]

I'm getting a bit better. Managed to get a video of Jupiter tonight which I've uploaded to YouTube -

I've put it though Lynkeos but this is as good as I could get.

[dugpatrick]

I have an 8" newt too (Celestron C8N) and I use a 550d for planetary video. eos_movrec works well for recording the liveview stream and I use registax6 to process the video. You'll want some additional magnification, such as barlow(s) and/or a teleconverter. For planets I use a 2x barlow and a 2x teleconverter, for an combined focal length of 4000mm and f/20. You might be able to go to higher magnifications during excellent seeing, but this is rare.

Here are a few of examples of pictures using equipment similar to yours:

Saturn: Saturn, 5/26/2011, 8" newt | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Jupiter: Jupiter, Io, and Callisto with 8" newt | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Mars: Mars, 1/29/2012, taken with Celestron 8" newt | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Doug

[Jannis]

i must say the 2nd pic of the moon there looks really nice. great start!

as for the jupiter, much better then my first attempt. you're on the right track

looks from the video that it wasn't tracking properly. did you align the scope well?

it looks a bit blurred too, could be several reasons:

1. turbulense/bad seeing conditions (to check this quickly: if the stars are flickering a lot, it's rather bad seeing conditions)

2. scope/camera was not cooled down to surrounding temperatures

3. sliiightly out of focuse (i normally use the moons of jupiter to focuse when jupiter is my target)

4. there is a transparent spaceshoop between you and the scope, and the blurring effect is just the spaceships cloaking device. run for your life!

5. low quality barlow is used (the cheap one that comes with teh scope is one i've had rather less success with, but it Can work in some cases).

ok, so you can probably exclude nr 4, and probably add another 50 options, but the main things to check first of all is: focuse, scope/camera temperature, and turbulense.

pluss, of course the obvious, if it's a thin thin layer of clouds or fog covering the sky.

[DaveT]

Hi Javert -- i find if im imaging with my 550d, i use live view and goto a star, i then focus at this point, then i use the 5x zoom on the 550d and refocus, then do the same at 10x magnification. I also have a bahtinov mask that i have only just received but havent had a chance to try it as viewing has been too poor, but im told it is the mutts nuts for focusing manually. After i have the star in focus or as near to as small a dot as possible, then i point the telescope to whatever planet or moon im trying to image. It should then be nice and sharp without any focus adjustment.

just a few tips ive found to help myself so far

Dave

[Javert]

Jannis, no I didn't really align my scope. It was just a case of pointing it roughly north. Plus, I should've put my camera on square to the scope, and I think most of your other points are valid too.

I do usually use the x5 and x10 zoom buttons to focus, especially if I'm taking a photo of the moon, but I can't remember whether I did it before taking the video. Guess I may just have tried to focus from Live view before starting to record.