A telescope upgrade that can do Planets and DSO's

[pel]

Firstly, sorry if this has all been said before.

I've been bit by the Asto imaging bug and would like to upgrade my beginner scope. I have a celestron 130eq. a Phillips SPC880NC webcam (un-modded so far for long exposure) and the Astromaster filter lens kit. Software - Sharpcap and Registax.

I would like to image the planets and DSO's, but would like a GoTo/Tracking mount as well, I'd like all of that on a budget of £400 (I know, I don't want a lot).

I was looking at the Skywatcher Skymax 127 Syncscan AZ GoTo at FLO for £365 and was wondering if this would be any good for DSO's, as it is apparantly very good for the planets.

I am willing to upgrade a bit at a time so I don't mind getting a £400 mount first and trying the 130eq tube on that for a while, if that is the way to go?

Ideally I would like to work my way up to something like a Skywatcher 150 on a EQ3 goto and then an ED80 on a HEQ5 GoTo.

I am loving the site and really enjoyed reading Spacecowboy's Embarrasing Jupiters clinic.

[ollypenrice]

I think this should on the equipment board really?

OK, the honest answer as I see it is it can't be done and still couldn't be done if you doubled your budget. For DS imaging you'll be wanting a fast f ratio and short focal length. For the planets it will be the reverse, a long focal length and a slow F ratio.

The only way you could have both would be with a Newt. For the planets you'd need multiple barlows or a powermate to get the focal length up to a reasonable imaging scale. For DS you'd use prime focus. You could use an SCT but they are the last thing I'd recommend to a beginner in DS imaging.

And all this would need (for deep sky) to go on an accurate EQ mount. My personal minimum would be the HEQ5 but you can make a start with the EQ3.

The 127 Mak is too slow in the F ratio for DS imaging but is good for the planets and for the planets you can image in alt az which makes it a cheaper option.

Imaging the deep sky is complicated and expensive I'm afraid. If only it weren't!!

Olly

[pel]

Thanks Olly, I was afraid there would be a large initial outlay for both planets and DSO's.

I think I will have to go down the equatorial mount route, buy a manual one and later upgrade to a more stable goto.

I'm leaning towards a Skywatcher explorer 200p on an EQ5 now with the goal of upgraing to a HEQ5 goto.

This is just how my Hi-Fi addiction started except I was then after that last bit of detail on my LP's.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I have a C8 which is pretty good on planets, and I did once long ago manage a hand guided 20min exposure of M42 with it on 1600 ASA Fujichrome slide film (not something I would like to repeat any time soon). I would also like to get into DSO imaging, and for that purpose got an 80mm F/6 refractor. Now all I need is a decent camera for that kind of work.

Horses for courses.

[pel]

Hi Michael , you're not wrong there - definitely horses for courses.

This looks like it could have a good stab at doing both though and at only £470ish-

Skyliner-200P FlexTubeTM AUTO Dobsonian

I'll have to find the objects on my own, but that is part of the learning curve though.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Hi Michael , you're not wrong there - definitely horses for courses.

This looks like it could have a good stab at doing both though and at only £470ish-

Skyliner-200P FlexTubeTM AUTO Dobsonian

I'll have to find the objects on my own, but that is part of the learning curve though.

A dobson will do a good job visually on almost any object. If it tracks well it can be used for planetary photography, but you will need a very sturdy EQ mount for DSO work.

[pel]

From what I have read and seen it will just sit on the ground and follow the objects. Have a look on google images.

It seems a very cheap way of imaging planets and DSO's. I guess that's why a lot of the members here have them.

[John]

From what I have read and seen it will just sit on the ground and follow the objects. Have a look on google images.

It seems a very cheap way of imaging planets and DSO's. I guess that's why a lot of the members here have them.

It's OK for basic planetary / lunar imaging but not for DSO's, as Michael says. The mount is a driven alt-azimuth so you get field rotation. Great for visual observing though.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

From what I have read and seen it will just sit on the ground and follow the objects. Have a look on google images.

It seems a very cheap way of imaging planets and DSO's. I guess that's why a lot of the members here have them.

It follows them, but you get field rotation. This means that as it tracks an object, the objects stays centred, but the orientation with respect to the camera changes. This is not an issue visually, and for planets the exposure of each frame is short enough (Registax can derotate the stack of images, each of which does not show rotation). In DSO imaging every sub-image is generally taken at exposure times in the order of minutes, and stars will become short arcs in that time.

[pel]

Oh, I think I see his point now, thanks John.

I think what he is saying is that it will track the object but not keep it centered?

I think the Skyliner-200P FlexTube AUTO is still my favourite at the moment as you get so much for your money.

[pel]

Hi Michael, yes I caught on eventually, I am new to this though

[Guest]

Hey Pel,

you're going to hear so many opinions on your question (you already did ), well, and here's another one:

The longer the telescopes focal length, the more accurately you have to track the objects in the sky. I really liked your mount-first-idea, and would suggest to get a fast refractor for your start in deep sky imaging. I'm using a Vixen 80/400 on an old SP mount, a motor in RA is everything you need for the beginning (rather invest in a "Karkoschka" (The observer's sky atlas) than in a goto-mount. ). You should be able to get both the refractor and the motorized mount for about 400 GBP on the used market. Certainly, this is an achromatic refractor, but for wide-field views and photography its a good base.

Then, later, you can add a new optical tube for planetary imaging. Good thing is, a mount of the size of the SP / GP will be rock solid for a small refractor, so that you can do long exposure times, and still stable enough for a lager scope (e.g. a 8" SCT) to do visual observation and planetary photography.

What do you say?

Raphael

[pel]

Hi Raphael ,

Thanks for the post. Yes I'd like to upgrade bits at a time as I can spend the money when I have it. If I can get a cheap motorised Equatorial mount and a achromatic refractor I will as I will be able to get straight into imaging DSO's. I've just got to find the right equiptment at the right price at the right time.

Ebay is pretty expensive at the moment, I guess because of the BBC tv programme Star Gazing live

I have the book turn left at Orion, Sky Safari for the i-phone and a Telrad, so I think I'm ok for finding the objects without a GoTo and it's probably a better way to learn.

Thanks.

[Guest]

Hey Pel,

you're so right, finding the right equipment at the right place at the right time...

Although I bought all of my equipment 2nd hand (well, or 3rd, 4th...), never used Ebay but rather the astronomy-forums out here on the internet, and http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/ (for us in Italy there is also http://astrosell.it/ ).

Good luck for your search, whatever you may decide is the right scope for you!

Raphael

ps: just to give you an idea what is generally possible with a good achromatic wide-field refractor, take a look at the following site: Vixen 80 SS Short Tube Refractor Telescope

[pel]

Hi Raphael,

Thanks for the link to the trading site. I like the images you have taken on your site, I like the pictures of M31, M42 and the ring nebular, infact they're all very good.

The more I read about astrophotography the more I realize that the mount is probably the best place to start and am leaning towards a motorized HEQ5 now. I'm glad I didn't have the money straight away or I may have gone done the wrong avenue. I will have to stick my Celestron 130eq tube on there for a while, but it will be the most solid 130eq on the planet :-)

Thankyou everyone for your advice so far.

[Gina]

A solid mount on a solid base makes the 130EQ usable - the mount and tripod are definitely the worst parts of the scope package. Even the focuser is not too bad with a good mount etc.

Yes, the mount is definitely the most important part of an AP setup.

[pel]

Thanks Gina, it's nice to know I won't be wasting my time using the 130eq on a better mount.

[dag123]

Hi Pel,

Have you got the motor for the Astromaster 130EQ? I recently started webcam photography and was having trouble keeping Jupiter in the frame for long-enough. However with the motor-drive and a bit of extra time polar-aligning I can keep it in the centre part of the webcam image for at least 2-3 minutes, enough for 1500 frames-or so. Admittedly finding the planet in the first place with a x3 barlow is tricky, but I am quite pleased with the results.

The downside to using the motor is it can get in the way of certain scope positions and there is the loss of manual control. However it comes with a handy screw so you can take it off if you know you won't be needing it.

Hope this helps

dag123

[Guest]

. I like the images you have taken on your site, I like the pictures of M31, M42 and the ring nebular, infact they're all very good.

... the link to Vixen 80 SS Short Tube Refractor Telescope is not my site , its just someone who has the same refractor as I do . But except from that, he has much newer and better equipment than I do....

[pel]

Hi Dag123 ,

Thanks for the advice. No I haven't got the motors. I got bit by the AP bug and I did consider adding the motors but I don't want to spend to much money on the 130eq especially as my setup seems a bit wobbly. I'd rather save it towards a more stable mount and later on somethng that could gather a bit more light.

Jupiter seems to be everyones favourite target :-) I lined it up with my Telrad (these are brilliant compared to that eq130 finder), put the lens in on it's own, found it and then put the barlow and camera in.

I guess you can identify with the problems I was having initially where you could see a bright light on the perifery of the viewer but couldn't find the blumming planet :-)

I got a fairly decent picture of jupiter with my eq130, SPC900NC camera and the 2x power lens from the astromaster kit, but obviously I couldn't keep it in the frame for long. The picture was meant to be on my profile but doesn't seem to be there, but I will attach it.

[pel]

Hi Raphael ,

:-) Looks like a good scope anyway. I'm sure you're pictures are better :-)

[dag123]

Hi pel,

As a comparison here are two of my images of Jupiter.

The first from November last year with the 2xbarlow from the Celestron kit.

The second (slightly larger), Monday night, with my new ED 3xbarlow.

BTW: If you think it is tricky lining the planet up with a x2, try the x3!!!

I spent an extra 10-15 minutes doing the polar alignment. Making sure polaris was centred in a 10mm EP rather than just roughly with my 32mm EP which is as far as I would bother if I am just sightseeing. I then centred Jupiter with the 32mm EP then added the 2x barlow, switched on the motor and then adjusted the speed to track correctly. Then put on the x3 and webcam and after a few attempts the planed was in view. I used one of the moons to focus with the auto balance enabled, then moved back to the planet and went to manual settings to bring out the colour.

All were about 1200 frames, which was only possible using the motor. Before I had that I was limited to less than 200 as all I could do is to let it drift across the webcam field of view.

To produce the images I first used "Castrator" to isolate and centre the planet, then "Registax" to stack and muck about with wavelets to bring out the detail.

dag123

[pel]

Hi Dag123 ,

Excellent pictures of Jupiter, especially if you're using a 130eq, I can imagine it is very tricky with a 3x barlow too. It would be boring with a goto telescope that would track the object too :-).

What webcam software are you using Sharpcap?

I wasn't able to get the Jupiter moons in focus with the webcam on, i'll have to try again when the sky is finally clear again. I'm not sure the Astromaster accessory kit I bought is that good (£50), it has a 2x power, a 15 kelner, a 6mm and 3 filters.

I think the power lens/barlow is probably a bit crappy at that price, but I will give it another go, if it's no good I will sell the kit and buy a Tal 3x barlow I hear on SGL that they are really good.

[dag123]

The webcam capture software I am using is wxAstroCapture.

For no other reason than it was the one being used in the thread I was reading on AstroPhotography and so it was easy to follow what was being described. That and the fact that it seems to be working fine on my aging laptop!

Regarding how good your kit is, I went for the Celestron kit which cost about the same as the scope! Out of that the 32mm is my most-used, with the 17mm, 13mm, 2xbarlow and moon filter depending on what I am looking at. The other filters and 8mm/6mm I hardly use. Although I have a couple of more expensive EPs I think it is my light pollution that is limiting my viewing more than the technical quality of my optics!

dag123

[pel]

Thanks for the reply Dag123.

I was going to compare wxAstroCapture against Sharpcap to see if I prefer the interface.

That kit looks very smart, I think the Barlow from that kit is probably better than the 2x power lens from mine. I'm mainly into astrophotography so I think I'll trade my kit in and get a Tal x3 barlow and see how I go from there.