What is the best value GOTO refractor for a noob?

[Parus major]

I've done it!

[foundaplanet]

Thanks for all the excellent replies. I have another question. I know it's possible to use a webcam but can we view and control the scope from indoors where it'll be warm?

Yes and you can even watch Celebrity Big Brother at the same time..

[dazzst]

Can you give me some more info?

[Parus major]

A lot of webcams have attachments that you can fit in place of the lens on the front of it that you can then fit into the focuser of a telescope. Assuming you have a USB cable long enough you can lead it indoors to a computer. Other things to take into account is computer control of the mount it's self.

[Caldwell 14]

If it helps any I used to own a Celestron Nexstar 102 STL refractor. For rich field views it was wonderful, perfect for big open clusters, you could fit 45 in its field of view and my personal favorite the double cluster was just fab. Now I have to confess I am refractor fan so I am going to be biased but I do think the Nexstar 102 STL is a great scope if you must have goto and was very well reviewed and can be had these days for as little as £315, not bad at all.

[dazzst]

If the webcam goes in place of the EP doesn't this mean you lose the magnification capability?

[Parus major]

If the webcam goes in place of the EP doesn't this mean you lose the magnification capability?

No. The lens that causes the webcam to focus is removed so the light falls directly onto the CCD chip on the webcam. The popular Philips SPC 900 pans out to having a magnification effectively the same as a 6mm eyepiece

Here's the moon minus any barlows, just the webcam and a IR/UV cut filter.

Obviously the kind of telescope you're set on is very different but this is ~roughly~ at 200x

[dazzst]

Many thanks. I've been swayed and it looks like a reflector is the best choice. My daughter and I (mainly my daughter) will be using the scope and as such the ability to view and control the scope from indoors is a HUGE bonus. The only potential issue I can see with this though is the length of the USB cable required. As I understand it USB has a finite length before the signal is of no use. Has anything been developed which allows this to increase or preferably go wireless?

[Parus major]

I've not done the required homework but I do know there's such a thing as a wireless USB hub. No idea how that works, though. You can get "Active USB cables" that can be stacked on and on and on. Personally, I use a 5m active and a 3m amazon basic with a powered hub on the end.

Make sure your mount can be computer controlled, I only know of the equatorials, not about the Az types.

[dazzst]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

I haven't selected the scope yet, instead concentrating (maybe foolishly) on the comfort side of things. Wireless viewing and control is going to be paramount if she's to enjoy this hobby. I don't mind going outside, aligning and setting the scope up but we simply can't have cables trailing through the house, up the stairs and in to her bedroom. Simply wouldn't be practical so wireless of some form is a must have. We have outdoor mains power and I would guesstimate that the total distance from the scope to the bedroom as the crow flies to be less than 50ft (scope placement dependent of course!).

[foundaplanet]

You may find this worth a read.

http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/Drahtlose%20Steuerung%20NexStar%201_0%20english%20rev%20a.pdf

[dazzst]

Thanks for that. Interesting. I would have hoped things have moved on in terms of technology in 8 years or so?

[cyborg421]

TBH I actually like being outside and being under the stars and it wouldn't be the same from indoors. A bit like seeing it on Stargazers Live or watching it on utube. I like to see objects with my own eyes.

You can go from object to object with a goto but it's not the same as being under the majesty of the skies.

I would suggest you actually go to a local astronomy club and observe for yourself and look through a few scopes. You will be in a much better position to make an informed opinion.

Simon

[dazzst]

Lazy astronomers here. Perhaps that would come. Who knows. In the meantime I need to gather as much information as possible about the feasibility, practicalities and costs before presenting it to the board (the wife). In the summer of course it'll be great viewing outdoors with a BBQ in the background but as the best viewing is done in the winter months due to the short days I know what my daughter's like. I want to encourage it. If that means control and viewing from indoors then that's what must happen.

[cyborg421]

Bear in mind that one eyepiece (in your case webcam) is not suitable for all objects. I have a range from 32mm to 6mm and all of them are used depending what object I am looking at.

Speaking from experience I am wondering if your expectation of goto is too great. The scope needs to be level but even then it only puts in roughly the right area. If it is slightly out you may miss the object completely especially with a webcam and you may find it difficult to locate.

[mallorcasaint]

If you are not going to be outside then you will be missing out on the main point of stargazing. There is nothing like being out under the stars and you can wrap up well and be warm. Perhaps you could downlod Stellarium and the kids could look at some of the objects available on there. It will be much the same as viewing on a laptop through a scope!

[dazzst]

I was told that you could control the mount by PC so I'll assume that means you can centre the target in the viewfinder (webcam) no?

Forget the going outside, wrapping up warm with a hot cup of tea / chocolate thing. It simply won't happen with Zoe....yet! If she get's hooked then that'll happen for sure.

[Parus major]

Lazy astronomers here. Perhaps that would come. Who knows. In the meantime I need to gather as much information as possible about the feasibility, practicalities and costs before presenting it to the board (the wife). In the summer of course it'll be great viewing outdoors with a BBQ in the background but as the best viewing is done in the winter months due to the short days I know what my daughter's like. I want to encourage it. If that means control and viewing from indoors then that's what must happen.

What I'm going to say is what you're after is basically a fairly expensive setup that the mere mortals of us on here look jealously at people for having and you want to spend £400.

My thoughts are that if you think your daughter will be put off with a little cold then what she's likely to see with a telescope on your budget using a webcam will likely have the same effect.

My advice would be to buys something that will proved pleasing images through an eyepiece and of a size she can be tall enough to look through. You're only eight weeks away from decent weather and still enough dark for a child to out at a reasonable time. Have a look at EQ mounted telescopes, allow the budget for a £70-£90 motor for it and enjoy it until next winter. If remote viewing is still something you want then you can upgrade to that then.

[cyborg421]

Astronomical objects are different sizes. I get the best view of Perseus double cluster with my 32mm. The Pleiades won't even fit in it. For Jupiter I use my 6mm (under IDEAL conditions!) but use my 13mm to centre it first. The 6mm has a very small field of view and Jupiter would be very difficult to locate with just the 6mm (like your webcam). The gotos are good but your are not going to get perfection for £400. I suspect that from indoors you would find it very difficult to locate objects.

[dazzst]

The £400 budget was for the scope only. I realise that a webcam, software, hardware, cables, chocolate powder, etc. will cost more!

I'm just trying to find out the foundations here. In other words, can I add a webcam, wireless, software, etc.

[cyborg421]

My thoughts are that if you think your daughter will be put off with a little cold then what she's likely to see with a telescope on your budget using a webcam will likely have the same effect.

I agree. People often have very high expectations of what they may see through a scope and I suspect your daughter may be very disappointed. As I said before, try before you buy. You may save a big argument with your financial advisor!

[dazzst]

As long as initially the moon and planets are visible and with software she can layer the images to produce something in some form of crude colour, etc. from indoors then that'll be a good start.

[cyborg421]

I'm just trying to find out the foundations here. In other words, can I add a webcam, wireless, software, etc.

You can but as other people have pointed out I think you're coming at this from the wrong angle.

Simon

[mallorcasaint]

Bottom line is, yes you can control a scope from a pc but you will still need to go outside at some point. The views you will get on a webcam are nothing like what you will see directly through the scope and this type of setup is used for imaging not viewing.

[dazzst]

Imaging. Yes, this is probably better. I won't bore you with a long explanation but initially Zoe would prefer to image.