Noobie with big dreams

[Jet reading]

Hi my names jet.

I love astronomy with a passion and spend far to much time pondering he universe. I love it that much that I'm currently at college studying with the end goal being an astrophysics course at the uni of herts and hopefully my dream career.

However as a student no surprises I'm skint and impatient. I've never had my own telescope and really need one now binoculars just don't even get close to what I want. I'm not after a pretty telescope to sit in my living room, as I keep seeing this seems to be quite popular, I'm after a powerful scope that I can get my head ticking with studying nebula, moons and basically as much as pos.

Now I know I'm not gunna get that all for pennys but obviously money is almost a priority haha. I've been looking at the SkyWatcher SKYLINER-300P 12" Parabolic Dobsonian Telescope. It seems pretty amazing and although alot of money for me I could stretch to it. Is this a wise bet or are there better telescopes in that range? £600 or there abouts is my ceiling limit actually it's beyond it haha but I have to have a good scope now

The second option is building a scope. I'm technically minded and have worked as a carpenter so possibly have the ability however to get a telescope of the caliber I need I could see it being beyond me, any advice would be really great thank you

[CGolder]

the skyliner is a BIG scope, if you want the most view for the least money then i would say your right on track, nothing comes close in what you can see value for money... make sure you know what you are doing.. its a HUGE scope

[Pug]

Agree with the above. I've had an 130 explorer for a year, looking for a big dob in the next couple of months.

Once you've hit 50 posts and been on here for a month you can access the for sale section, second hand dobs appear from time to time for a lot less than £600. Waiting for one to come up myself! Good luck and welcome!

[rory]

i think every discussion like this always ens up with "bang for you buck" and always ends up being a dob . 8 inch plus.

unless photography is involved, so your on the right track with dobs.

[swamp thing]

Hi

A 12" scope is an enormous first scope in more ways than one.

Are you sure you want something that big as your first scope?

Have you actually seen one in the flesh? If not, I strongly urge you to go along to the nearest dealer and take a look.

Don't get me wrong the views through a monster like this are nothing short of spectacular, but living with a big scope is an acquired taste.

Where you will store it is another consideration as is, how you will move it from storage to observing site. Remember you will be doing this every time you observe.

As you can see from my sig I have a larger scope and would never try and talk anyone else out of buying one but just be sure you know what you are getting into.

Regards Steve

[Jet reading]

Nice one folks yea tbh I didn't think about the size of the thing however I'm lucky where I live. We've got Loadsa room and as I said I'm a carpenter so I'm thinking of building a small shed come observatory when I can. I'm gunna have a look at those scopes you posted in a mo beers for that man massive thanks on the sales front too. Good to know so thank you

What about building a telescope? Any thoughts? I was thinking a large refractor come dobsonion but obviously never done it before so would be a bit trial and error

[Jet reading]

That's ment to be cheers haha

[umadog]

You will probably also want to be able to transport the scope to dark skies every once in a while. A 12" isn't going to work in your favour there. A 10" is a better bet. The views are very similar but it's a lot easier to manage than a 12".

Building will probably end up costing more than buying new. Economies of scale are such that telescopes are now very cheap compared to what they used to cost. Build if you like building. If you want to save money, by new or second hand. The main advantage to building, is that you can have a nicer design than those mass-produced Dobs. Optically, it will be the same since you won't want to be paying mega bucks for a mirror. You can buy Chinese mirrors (which are now pretty good) for reasonable money. Dobsonians are pretty easy to build (I made a solid-tube when I was 15). You want this book: Amazon.com: The Dobsonian Telescope: A Practical Manual for Building Large Aperture Telescopes (9780943396552): David Kriege, Richard Berry: Books

If you do it right you will end up with this: Obsession Telescopes / Telescopes / 12.5" Classic Those scopes have a very low-profile rocker box, which makes them much more portable than equivalent aperture mass-produced scopes. It's quite amazing how much difference it makes: my 18" weighs only 5 kg more than an Orion 12" Truss Dob. Of course the weight is all in the mirror box....

[Charon]

I would have a re-think if I were you!

[Jet reading]

Well even the light isn't a problem here I'm right out in the country side our next door neighbour is a farm haha

Cheers for the advice the point of building was to hopefully save money but I can't even source the mirrors etc at the mo. Cheers for the book tho I'll have a look n see what's what

Okay thanks all good stuff here.

[Jet reading]

Ooh just seen that nereid3 I'll have a look at those but why's that?

[Ericgraham]

Hi Jeff,

Good luck with your plans. I went from amateur astronomer to professional and back to amateur. As a kid in England, I made a 10 inch equatorially mounted Newt with nothing more than hand woodworking tools. I made a mirror grinding and polishing machine and used a glass porthole for a blank. Nothing beats the satisfaction of looking through a telescope that you built yourself.

Since then I bought an 11 inch cat, but it never gave me the same satisfaction, so now I'm back to building a new scope

Eric

[saturn4me]

Why dont you go for the Skywatcher Skyliner 200p Dob. £271 and that leaves cash left over for extras? You wont be dissapointed i assure you.

[Jet reading]

Cheers Eric yea I can't deny that I love that thought and if I'm honest the whole come look what I did haha

Yea I was looking at that saturn4me n it's def in my range but I can't help that I lent towards the 300 as I know I'm gunna want as much detail as pos. My dream is an astrophysics career but even as it is I really want to study nebulae to see if I can back up some of my theories with observation. I'm pretty sure I'm not even gunna get what I want from the 300 :S obviously tho you've used the 200 have you done anything like this or seen nebula with some detail?

[Jet reading]

After writing that I'm thinking I may have to build my own or buy bigger really. Problem being money :/

[saturn4me]

Follow your dream but be careful.Looks like your mind is set on BIG!

[parkway]

A 12 inch dob is indeed a huge scope. It totally swamps my 8" one. But don't dismiss it if you feel you can cope with it. I'm only 5'8" with a small frame, and I manage to lug it out into the garden. Yeah, there's the odd night when my back ain't up to carrying it out.. all depends on how tired I am. If you have ample stature and not afraid to lift something quite heavy then by all means, go for it.

It all depends on the distance from where you'll store the scope to the location where you'll observe from in the garden. Also take the width of your door way into account. My back door is quite slim so it can be a bit of a nightmare to get the scope in/out without knocking the focuser on the door frame. *cringes at the thought*

That all said, have you thought of getting a Flextube? Of course, you'd have to check the collimation every time you set up.. but I find I have to adjust mine as it's always off after moving the scope. (mines a 12" GSO)

The Flextube would certainly be more transportable, in fact, I wouldn't even attempt to transport a 12" solid-tube!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[ronin]

Beginning to side with Nereid3.

The only purpose you appear to have is to own a big scope.

You don't say why, what you want it for or much else. Seems that this 300mm scope will sit at home near a farm while you are at Uni for most of the year. In that situation you will see more through a 60mm Tasco at the Uni then the 300mm Dob which is at home.

By the way, reduce the scope budget by £100, use this £100 tp buy a collimator and a couple of extra eyepieces.

Carpentry is fine, how about optical design?

The mirror/scope if build by hand is an optical instrument, you cannot plane it down or sand it down, you cannot turn a mirror on a lathe. (tried it once, it didn't work, and the "lathe" was a £1m optical one for making IR lens)

You say you want detail, well refractors give more detail, not as bright but they have the edge in detail - optics again.

You are at college now (A-Level?), and want to go the UH (BSc?). OK thats a start. Is the "dream career" one in astro-physics or astronomy? If so add another 4-5 years for the PhD.

Why Hatfield?

[saturn4me]

Starting with something as huge as a 300, where will you go from there? Sounds like you've got severe aperture fever before you've even started! Dont you want to have fun and learn your way up (so to speak)? Starting so high up the scope level doesn't leave anywhere to really go as your interest and experience increases.

[swamp thing]

Hi

Another consideration is most large scope owners that don't have their scopes permanently mounted have a smaller secondary scope for nights when dragging the big un out just isn't practical.

I follow this way of going about scope usage. When the moon is around full, or work issues only dictate a short session I can just grab my small scope and still be observing.

Following this way of observing also permits the larger scope to be considerably larger than initially thought, as the pressure to drag it out every night is no longer an issue. You simply drag out the big scope when you feel like it.

A lot of amateurs have many more than just two scopes so it's no different to how much use all their scopes get.

You do tend to get a lot of people that say "how often are you gonna use a big scope?" the answer for me is when I add up the actual hours at the eyepiece my big scope is way ahead.

The secondary scope can be as small as you like but I personally wouldn't make it bigger than 10"

The larger one this way can be as big as you can physically manage, afford and store.

Of course if you are able to permanently mount a large scope non of this is applicable. If this is the case just buy as large as you can fit in your observatory

Regards Steve

[Matthew]

Hi jet,as you can see from my picture ive got the 300p flextube,it is a little easier to store and transport but its still a big lump,i bought mine second hand for just over £400.But there are negatives,its not very forgiving on cheaper e/p's + you need a dew shield and light shroud because the dew issues i had were awful.I did consider a Skyliner but it was huge!! My first scope was a 200p + EQ5 and it was superb .I hope this helps a little Jet.

[umadog]

"You say you want detail, well refractors give more detail, not as bright but they have the edge in detail - optics again."

Not in practice. You're going to have to spend mega, mega, bucks to get a refractor that shows you more detail than a good 12" Newtonian.

[brantuk]

Hi Jet - if you are anywhere near the Peak District or can make it there next Saturday, you'd be well advised to visit the star camp near Buxton. It's called the Peak Star Party and you can find full details here:

http://stargazerslounge.com/star-parties/129510-peak-star-party-lives-again-21-24-october.html

There will be plenty of scopes to see and a lot of folks willing to have a chat and discuss your ambitions and offer advice.

[Jet reading]

Right some good advice there and big thanks for the shout on the peak district unfortunately I won't be able ta get up there :/ I need ta say I'm not silly. Me and friend went half n half on an 8" dob but he moved and bought me out so to speak although it was always at his hence I have experience but never really had my own scope but yes I def have the BIG fever Moving and storing it isn't a prob I've got a big garage and a sack barrow also I only need to move it about ten feet as the garage is right out the back next to a field with nice low light levels the reason I've not really looked at a truss scope is I can't really be bothered with the set up and putting away all the time it's much easier with the room I've got just ta have a solid tube. And yes of course I can't just sand a mirror I'm not thick I would have ta buy that stuff or pos get my mate to help (she's an optician) although that's prob not gunna do it. This is why I'm here going back to the point what I'm after is... Is it better/cheaper to build a scope or buy one? By what I've read so far in my price bracket the skyliner 300 seems to be my best option rather than build or buy something else can anyone point me in a better direction please like I said I've got room and experience but really need my own scope now and I'm def gunna buy/build big and like I've already said I'm gunna build an observatory anyway

[umadog]

If you want a scope now then you should buy. Learning to grind a good quality large mirror will take months if not years.

It's good that to you have no major light sources in the immediate area, but how much light pollution do you have more generally? This isn't related to direct light nearby. Look up the Bortle scale and figure out where you fall on it. "seeing milky way" is only the most basic criterion: it's possible to see milky way from a site which is fairly light polluted. Try to work out your zenith limiting magnitude. Unless you're very lucky and live in the middle of Wales or some places in Devon, etc, probably you will want to travel to darker skies from time to time. Make sure you get a scope which is transportable for you.

You should understand that aperture makes a difference, but not as much of a difference as you might think. A lot of beginners get disappointed by not realising this. For example, a 12" in mag 5.5 skies will easily be outperformed by an 8" in mag 6.5 and better skies. Obviously, a 12" somewhere dark is better still. Just keep in mind that a difference between a 12" and an 8" scope is noticeable but not vast. You will need to buy eyepieces, star charts, collimation tools, a Telrad, books, etc. Do not blow your budget on the scope and leave no money for anything else. Get a 10" if needed. Honestly, the difference between a 12" and a 10" is inconsequential. I've viewed through both side by side and speak from experience.

I wouldn't rule out a truss scope based on the reasons you quote. You can leave a truss scope permanently set up: people with big Dobs do this all the time. In fact, virtually every big Dob is a truss.