Struggling to find DSO's

[franco]

Last night was a rare night where the skys were clear I was able to take my scope out for the 3rd time since I have had it!

Im pretty limited as to how long i can stay up on a school night but i was gazing until 12:30.

As there are no planets (which I still havnt been able to observe) high enough to see at that time i thought i would try and locate some DSO's i figured my best bet would be M51 and the ring nebula as they were more or less up above, however as the sky was so clear i stuggled with my finder as there were so many stars i found myself confused with the inverted image,

maybe i needed to wait a bit longer for a darker sky or maybe my EP's arn't ideal (I have the standard SW EP's). any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

[kniclander]

I think a lot of people find the inverted finderscope image confusing and many move to a red dot finder or a correct image finder. M51 is pretty hard to see if your skies are not dark - N herts is probably within the London skyglow so it might be tough and the ring nebula is very small and can also be hard to find. A good book to start with is Turn left at Orion as it gives you simple instructions for finding the brightest DSOs and double stars. Good targets now are the dumbbell nebula and Albireo and the wild ducks cluster. Don't give up - it gets easier and finding stuff for yourself is very rewarding.

[West End Wendy]

There's no up and down in space, as they say, but there is on my star chart and find looking at things upside down totally counterintuitive.

I've been finding DSOs for myself for about a year now and have got reasonably proficient at it, but I'd be lost without a correct image finder.

Bear in mind though that with a right-angled finder you're not actually looking up at the sky and some sort of red dot finder is usually necessary too to find a bright star to start off from.

Tim.

[MjrTom]

I suggest you get a red dot finder/telrad and or a right angled correct image 9x50 finder which should make things a lot easier to find.

Also dont under estimate the importance of a good star map

I was looking at M57 through my 80mm telescope with the glow of Liverpool in the distance so your eight inch dob should have no problem with its 6x more light grasp

It is a small object and easily missed. It requires at least 40-60x magnification for it to be large enough to be visible as it is only just over 1 arch minute in size

[tyler_jrb]

hey franco, my guess would be that there are a few things you should do really, it can be confusing looking through an inverted finderscope but once you get used to it becomes easier. find the object in right angles say make sure you have downloaded stellarium and have that up and running outside with you. Then you want to find the object say m51 on stellarium which is southeast under ursa major last star. then look on stellarium find a star at say a right angle or even just quite close to the object on screen and then find the star with your finderscope, then just use your most low power eyepiece which is 25mm and then go right or left towards where it is roughly (very slowly allowing your eyes to ajust and not go over the object) you should be able to find it. what you can see is a small blurry patch near ursa major anyway and that is m51. My other guess would be you was looking in the wrong places and maybe going over the object a few times with the scope, there are many brighter dso objects which will be much easier too see and spot with the scope. as for planets I can spot jupiter in the east coming up at around 12:30 so if you have a cleared east view you should be able too see it at that time but say an extra few hours and it will be quite high in the sky. Another thing too do is just to wait a month or so and it will be up quite high for viewing. you can use stellarium to see where the position of planets are in say a month so you can watch out for them.

good luck tyler

[franco]

thanks for the advice guys, just yet to see anything that has given me the "wow factor", dont get me wrong i could look up at the stars all night if it wasnt for work the next morning! im am hoping to replace my finder with a right angle finder and also a telrad too so im sure that will aid my viewing experience. also as the skys are getting darker this can only be a good thing for longer sessions.

What DSO's would you recommend to find for a novice, prefferably directly above as im in a crater of conifers in my back garden!

[MjrTom]

I would suggest the likes of M13, the great globular cluster in Hercules would be a good start. That never fails to impress and with a decent size scope that you have it should show a lovely collection of stars and very easy to find

Messier 13 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also a method I use to find things in the finderscope is once you are centred on a known star nearby to your target, look at your star map at your target and look for patterns of stars nearby then compare these to what you are seeing in the finder/eyepiece. Its funny that you start to see shapes of things, triangles, arrows, rows of stars etc. Use this to help guide your way on target

[acey]

I sympathise with the finder problem - it takes practice. But using an inverted-image finder is really not difficult as long as you are able to use a map - it just needs to be a map sufficiently detailed that you can match what you see on paper to what you see in the finder. For example try the free TriAtlas:

JR's website on Deep Sky Astronomy

When aiming for a target, start on a naked eye star, where you can be absolutely sure that you have got the same star on the map. Looking through the finder, study the pattern of fainter stars in the vicinity and turn your chart until it matches what you see. Try moving the scope a little and check that new star patterns coming into view match the chart. Once you're sure you've got the right star and the right map orientation, work your way slowly through the patterns to reach your target. Choose a path that will take you through recognisable groups. If you get lost, go back and start again. Once you know you're looking at the exact spot where the DSO should be, look through the main scope and it should be there.

If the map is very detailed then you may be able to do this procedure using the main scope with a low-power eyepiece: that's how I usually do it, once I've started on a naked-eye star using the finder. Very small, faint targets may not be visible with a low power eyepiece: I use a zoom, and once I've got the right field I raise the power until the target comes into view. But for large, bright targets such as the Messiers this isn't necessary: a low-power eyepiece will show them as long as the sky is dark enough.

A tricky part is matching the field of view of finder or scope to the chart scale. Some people make circles of wire or draw circles on transparencies which can be overlaid on the map, showing the field of view. Personally I've never found this necessary, but it's something to consider if you continue to have problems.

A trick I do use, though, is to talk to myself while star-hopping. I look for shapes and describe them to myself (trapezium, box, little dog, whatever). This helps me to match patterns on the map with patterns through the eyepiece. Sounds silly but it works for me.

[MjrTom]

Haha that is funny you use a very similar method to me

Not seen any dogs yet though

[franco]

If at first you dont succeed.....

tried again last night as the sky was even clearer that the night before, (was cooler so maybe that helped somehow?) and i could see Lyra much more obviously. turns out before i underestimated the size of Lyra and was probably looking in completely th wrong place!

So i lined up the two stars at the bottom of "the box" and slowly nudged in with my 10mm EP, i came across a larger object that i though was a star but wouldnt come into focus, could it be? so i whacked in the 25mm EP. and there it was, M57, the doughnut in the sky! i had to use averted vison to see it, but it was much larger than the surronding stars. and then.......the clouds rolled in, time for bed

So there you go, my first DSO and first milestone,

[russ]

Well done, the first of many

[Rustysplit]

I'd 2nd the recommendation for M13 in Hercules.

I have a 200p newt, so I know your view will be "wow" inducing when you spot it.

[stonezafu]

Congrats on ticking the Ring - I struggled to find it at first as (a) I had no idea how faint it would be and ( scale is a big problem when finding my way round the sky. However, Lyra is a lovely 'little' constellation (well, M57 is only one light year across!) and a good jumping off point for lots that's interesting in the sky right now (even if Vega is neck-breakingly high at the moment). There's the North America Nebula just 3 degrees east of Deneb and I really would try for the M13 cluster in the Hercules keystone.

I've found tracking round the area with binoculars is a great preparation for using the Dob - if you can get the 'inversion' business right. I think that just comes with persistence; at least your finder is the same way round on the 200P.

I do find it handy to sight roughly along the barrel of the telescope with the naked eye before I start with the finder scope, too. This is just a poor-man's version of using a red-dot finder after all. Funny - I used to get so cross with the awful 6x21 on my (first, cheap) 114mm reflector... but on that you could at least do two-eye viewing - one through the finder and one naked eye to help line things up. The 9x50 finder on the 200P is too fat to see round :-). I did clock the Ring using this technique with the Helios scope, though - so it ain't all bad.

Good luck with the rest of the Messier pack

Stonez

[todd8137]

hi there saturn was up about 12:15 last night its the britest star in the east, try some easier stuff first before the dso as they not easy some times but do not give up some times street lights will kill the dsos

[tyler_jrb]

hey todd Ive been looking for saturn for a while but isnt the bright object in the east jupiter? I was looking at it with my small 60mm tasco as my dobsonian isnt as tall, I didnt know it was out so i wasnt outside, just thought id take a look too see if it was( was just shutting the curtains to sleep and noticed it) and at 60x all four moons were visable.