School Astronomy

[Richp]

Hi All,

Along with being an overly keen amateur myself, I haves recently been able to combine my hobby and my job, and I will soon be starting an astronomy club along with a new astronomy unit at the secondary school I teach at. Therefore I need to get kitted out (there's nothing better than spending someone elses money!).

I'm in the market for a fairly big (in my my eyes) scope - 10" newtonian for example - that we can use for astrophotography, along with a set of between 5-10 smaller scopes/binoculars for general work. Bearing in mind that as a school, we don't pay VAT, I have around £1000 to spend on the big scope, and am trying to get as big a budget as possible for the smaller kit.

Any advice in selection of equipment, or in introducing a school astronomy club would be massively appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Rich

[AndyUK]

Hi Rich - Skywatcher Newts are pretty good and within your budget - There's a 250PDS and also the new 250/f4 Quattro which come immediately to mind, but for astrophotography you'd really also need a coma corrector to go with both of those. However, a 250mm OTA is pretty big - You could also look at 200mm versions as well as arguably they're a bit more manageable.

I know you've mentioned you're an overly keen amateur (aren't we all?!), but I'm not sure where your starting point is, so please forgive me if what I'm going to mention below is stating the obvious, but although you've stated you've secured £1k for the main OTA, there's some other bits of kit which could hardly be called "minor".

First, you haven't mentioned the mount - As you haven't mentioned an observatory (ie a pier), for a 250mm OTA you'd really be looking at an EQ6 mount. This would enable you to get started with c. <120s subs, but you'd need to look at guiding if you wanted to get deeper than this, which would then bring in a guidescope/guidecam and a laptop (although that doesn't need to be anything too special). Mount-wise though, if you went for a 200mm, you may well get away with an HEQ5...

You also need to consider powering it all (a leisure battery?) and of course there's also then the camera itself - You can use the projection method with a compact camera / DSLR or indeed prime focus with a DSLR, both of which would require some adapters.

Just for info, my daughter's school is trying to set up an extra-curricula astronomy club too, but I understand they're starting with a Dobsonian for visual use - Although it's a fee paying school, money's desperately precious so the AP side is very much a luxury at this time (which is my wife put my name forward via the "friends of the school" to help out on that side!)

I'm not sure if this helps and please forgive me if I've underestimated your astro background, but if there's anything else I can help with, I'll try (and I'm sure there are plenty of others here who will also!).

All the best

Andy

[Ad Astra]

Hi Rich,

Your news warms my heart! I've been teaching astronomy in high school and college for 25 years now, and I have loads of curriculum and activities that I would be happy to send to you (much more than I can post here). I'd also be happy offer help and suggestions if you want them.

Send me a PM and we can work out the details. Teaching astronomy is wonderful, you will change and improve children's lives forever by helping them to experience wonders beyond our own little world.

Congratulations to you!

Dan

[RikM]

Wonderful news, but I am not sure I would like to try unguided imaging with a 10" Newt ??? The shorter the focal length the better for unguided.

With only £1000 for a main scope, this limits what you can do, an ED80 on an unguided HEQ5 Pro is £1,000 and then you still need a camera. What did you plan to image with your scope?

Did you plan to look through it as well?

[Capricorn]

A 10" scope will need an EQ6, they start at £800+

Have you looked into astrophotography?

I ask as you simply state the scope you intend to use and no mention of the other necessary things. The mount being the obvious one.

An EQ6 is not small and would need setting up every time it is used. Who is going to lug it around? Who will lug the 10" scope around? A fixed pier would make more sense, still about the same cost.

Where is the power coming from? Have you the laptops to connect to the camera to collect and process the data? Have you the digital cameras?

Can I suggest a visit to a club that has an imaging section and looking at the equipment that they use and have. You could easily find that £3000 is a basic cost of many astrophotography setups.

If you went down the line of a smaller refrctor and an HEQ5 I would say £600+ for the HEQ5, £700 for the refractor, then camera, laptop and £200 for assorted accessories. That would give an unguided but driven mount, £2000+ just there, for guidance add another £1000 easily.

Who actually wants to do astrophotography? You seem to be intending on spending a significant chunk of the money on one aspect. Especially as astrophotography will have to occur late, out of school hours and is a significant duration of time. How many pupils will actually turn up?

[Macavity]

It might be just the situation where unguided VIDEO astronomy (qv) could be used to advantage. It seems easier (familiar!) for kids to group around a screen, in real time, than wait for things to "develop" over many hours. Maybe you can scrounge a screen or two, cables (help, even) off your friendly neighbourhood IT department?

Checkout the thread on the (forthcoming?) "Quattro" F4 imaging Newts - Or see the existing £450 scopes of that ilk? Might have more SIZE appeal than a small APO? <G> A £600 HEQ5 Syntrek, £50 EQMod interface / CDC [free] planetarium software, £80 Leisure battery etc. Suspiciously like my (of necessity!) "budget" setup...

[david o]

Hi there Rich, first up ...

... welcome to SGL

Before making a start with astro-photography I really recommend that you read Making Every Photon Count (by SGL's very own steppenwolf).

Easy to read, it's full of good advice aimed at the imaging novice, including choosing the right equipment - explaining what kit you'll need and, more importantly, why. Helping you avoid poor choices and costly mistakes. There's also loads of tips 'n' tricks as well as lots of other vital stuff.

Have a trawl through the imaging sections too. They're full of info and some very experienced and talented folk who, I'm sure, will be more than happy to share advice and guidance with you.

HTH

[kniclander]

I would think for kids ideally you would want a couple of smallish scopes that can track and maybe one big dob which you would supervise. I dont see the point of AP for kids (its pretty demanding and they wouldnt actually look at anything) although the video astronomy route might be nice. but tbh wouldnt it be good to get kids away from laptops and pcs for a while and just look at the sky?

[wrinkly]

Please excuse a bit of thread bending but must admit to wondering why you need imaging.

Live in Sheltered Housing with no garden but excellent light pollution, so waiting for the nights to get darker. Then intend to use free train travel to better locations. Noticed that Stellarium showed the moon was up early, so went outside and there it was without obstructing buildings or trees. Using the LA sidewalk astronomers' principle, set up on the pavement as it is a motor vehicle no through road. Heard a shout of "What are you looking at?" and see fellow resident Ivy's daughter and granddaughter, visiting to sort out her computer. Although they had a telescope, had never managed to make it work so let them have a look. Ended up with two young ladies, probably off to a party queuing for their turn and making me wish I was much younger. They were delighted see the moon's craters, so let the young 'un park the scope. When you're a coffin dodger, you do tend to forget things.

Next time they visit Gran, will see if it is possible to get them to understand the workings of their scope. Quote, "Wondered what that was for.", "that" being the finder scope.

Do envy you the chance to enthuse so many youngsters but that little incident was very rewarding.

[Macavity]

Please excuse a bit of thread bending but must admit to wondering why you need imaging.

Actually seems to be something of a concesus theme?

As above too, you may indeed want to pry students away from the (even video astronomy) "telescreen". LOL. Maybe indeed, a DOBSONIAN, initially. Ability to "see stuff" at the eyepiece seems to vary so much. My "landscape gardener" (helpful mate, really!) could see "Huge Flames" at the Sun's periphery, with my PST - At my focus setting and without prompting. I sometimes wish I could... quite as easily!

[RikM]

A PST would be good. Kids could do some observing while at school

[ollypenrice]

Start with Steve's book, as above.

Distinguish between planetary and deep sky photography. Planetary is quite cheap and quite easy up to a certain standard. Deep sky just isn't!

For planetary you could use all sorts of handy scopes like the Skywatcher Maksutovs for instance, even on quickly set up alt az mounts. You use a webcam for this and can get something in an hour at the scope (all in) and an hour at the computer.

If you are dead set on deep sky photography then keep well away from big telescopes and use a small fast refractor on an HEQ5. It is as accurate as the 6 but far easier to move in and out. Be aware that taking deep sky images takes a very long time both at capture and processing stages and getting a decent number of kids actively involved would be a challenge for any teacher.

Small refractors can get results like this;

I think the live view camera idea has real merit.

Decent sized Dobsonian reflectors are inexpensive and intuitive.

PST or Lunt solar scope - certainly! Great idea. We have a Lunt FS60 and our guests invariably love it and you can (rather obviously!) use it in the daytime.

I'm sure you could find an experienced deep sky imaging volunteer to come in and help. If I were anywhere near I'd love to do so but I am in France. (Former teacher...)

The key thing is to think through how an evening would work with regard to the kit. I'm now an astronomy provider and making things 'hands on' for even a small group is quite a challenge! Binoculars are cheap and get people going. Once you start trying to image, all your attention gets drawn into that and also there is the problem of night vision being lost when working at the screen. Red stuff over the screen doesn't work for me but some manage it.

I'd also make contact with local clubs etc for a mine of practical help. Here's a list. Federation of Astronomical Societies - Member Societies

I too would be very happy to talk about astronomy and schools via PM etc though I only taught evening classes to adults in astronomy. The daytime job was English.

Olly

http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/

[Multi-Coated]

Great news Rich , we were very lucky to have a physics teacher who loved Astronomy during my school days. Sadly this teacher had left when my Sons attended the same school . Anyway whatever your choice of equipment i feel very excited for you and your Students , have fun , Rob.

[Richp]

Firstly, thanks for all the enthusiasm and support in my venture! Secondly, even bigger thanks for all the time and advice which has (rightly) thrown up even more questions for me! I think the video route is one I'm going to explore further as I think it will yield the results I want to enthuse my students - I've got a phone call booked in with Steve from FLO in the morning.

Thanks again everyone!