Taking the plunge - is this a good scope ?

[swayzak]

Hi

I'm looking to buy a good quality telescope & am willing spend a significant amount of money on the right model.

I'm a pathologist, so have some experience with assessing optical quality (albeit microscopic !).

I'd like the best quality I can afford, probably with automatic computerised mount / tracking, big aperture etc.

Something that would potentially give a lifetime of viewing.

After some research I was thinking maybe this:

Celestron C11-SGT (XLT) Computerised GoTo Telescope [11067-XLT] - £1,840.00 : 365Astronomy: Discovery for every day!

Is this OTT for a first scope ?

Would this be easy to move around in the back of my Honda Accord Tourer & quick to set up.

thanks

[Ad Astra]

Hello Swayzac,

The C-11 is indeed an excellent instrument, I have one that I use regularly in my astronomy classes, and it delivers superb views. The long focal ratio gives you plenty of magnification and resolution for lunar and planetary views, and the large aperture will allow you to reach deep sky targets with ease.

You should be aware that this is quite a large scope, and it is about the largest scope that I would consider to be readily portable. Certainly, if you have a permanent location for it, this isn't an issue, but if you plan on leaving it set up in a corner of the living room and moving it out to the garden on clear nights, it is about 15 minute exercise to get it moved, assembled, and aligned for use. Not that this is a bad thing, but if you were thinking of something that you can just 'plop down in a clear spot on the lawn' for a quick view of the sky, this probably isn't the best choice. If you are OK with putting in some setup time and learning to use the equipment properly, you will have an instrument that is of exceptional quality that will provide you a lifetime of enjoyment - and everyone who has a go at the eyepiece will be impressed - if not absolutely thrilled! - by the views.

Like you, I am a science professional who does not balk at using complex equipment. You will also understand (as I do) that the quality of the instrument is no substitute for the skill of the user; after all a scalpel in your hand is a medical tool - in my hands, it's just a knife. You will need to spend some time developing the expertise to wield your new instrument in order to get the most out of it. Computerized control (GoTo systems) will do many wonderful things and make your time at the eyepiece more productive and enjoyable, but they are not a panacea for lack of skill. The scope must be properly aligned and set up, and this requires some knowledge and skill from the user in order to operate it properly. I'm sure you will have no problem with this, you simply need to be aware that a GoTo scope won't make you an instant astronomer any more than WebMD will make you a real doctor.

I would highly recommend a trip out to the local astro club, if you haven't already done this. See if you can take a look at a C-11 in action - it will be worth your time to see how large the instrument is, and the wonderful results you can get with it. Chances are - one look and you will be hooked! But it will benefit you no end to make an informed decision before you buy.

Be aware that Celestron makes a 9.25" scope that is slightly smaller, but loads easier to travel with, set up, take down, etc. The CGEM 9.25 is a wonderful system if the 11-inch is a bit too large. And in an urban location where light pollution is a factor, a 9.25" will deliver much the same views as the 11-inch scope.

I hope that helps you some, if you have other particular questions, you can post them here or PM me. I get hundreds of people started out right in astronomy every year - it is my life's work. As someone in your line might say -

"Relax, you're in good hands.... I'm a doctor."

Dan

[RogerTheDodger]

Pathologist? dead end job

Wise words from Prof. Dan there, but "Relax, you're in good hands.... I'm a doctor." will be wasted I'm sure...

I'm sure you'll enjoy your 'scope, whichever you choose.

[John]

... but if you plan on leaving it set up in a corner of the living room and moving it out to the garden on clear nights, it is about 15 minute exercise to get it moved, assembled, and aligned for use......

Great advice from Dan. I'd just like to add that a further period of time will be needed to allow the scope to cool to the outside temperature if it's stored in the house. 30-60 mins depending on the temperature difference. Some of that will be happening as you set the scope up of course

While PM's to members for advice are fine of course, questions on the open forum will provide more information for the wider community

[ollypenrice]

In my opinion that setup is seriously under-mounted. The C11 is a good scope for all sorts of things but I would, without any doubt at all, want to see it on a mount at least one full step up the pecking order from that.

I think the scope is good for everything except wide field views and deep sky photography. For the latter, at that focal length, you would need a very good, accurate mount and it is not an easy thing to begin photography at those focal lengths. If deep sky photography is not on the agenda then maybe one of the fork mounted versions would be better? You could still use it for fast frame planetary imaging.

The mount is terribly important in astronomy and ten times terribly important in imaging! I thnik you would find that little mount very frustrating and likely to compromise the excellent planetary resolution of which the C11 is capable.

In visual use an alt-azimuthal mount is far more convenient because the range of eyepiece heights varies little and the orientation not at all. No polar alignment is needed, either, if you have no permanaent observatory.

I won't have any under-mounted telescopes at my place (I run an astronomy holiday centre) because they spoil the whole experience of observing. But the C11 for a good observing experience - yes.

Olly

ollypenrice's Photos

[swayzak]

Thanks all for the excellent advice - much to digest !

One thing I'm getting from forum advice is to hunt out a local astronomy club to get a better idea as to what might suite me best.

I'm based in the UK (Leicester) so will start searching !

PS I live on the edge of a city so I assume light pollution could be a major issue here - and possibly mitigate against investing in a C11 ?

[beamish]

You have seen a C11 in the flesh haven't you? You are aware of it's size and the mount needed , cos they have been a few posts on here over the years where peeps have been , well, taken aback when they've opened the boxes

Cracking scope and one I hope to move to next. I would seriously give the 9.25 some thought though, it is, as has been mentioned, considered to be Celestron's jewel.

[Woking]

One thing I'm getting from forum advice is to hunt out a local astronomy club to get a better idea as to what might suite me best.

I'm based in the UK (Leicester) so will start searching !

PS I live on the edge of a city so I assume light pollution could be a major issue here - and possibly mitigate against investing in a C11 ?

check out the East Midlands social group on here, very active and lots of members. Introduce yourself and you may well get loads of expert scope advice and the chance to see many types first hand, plus you will be sorted for your dark sites too

[Nexus 6]

Good advise given already. I do agree with Beamish though, had exactly THAT feeling when I opened the box for my cpc 925! Ok its not exactly the same scope but is some size. I'd love a cpc 1100, if its for visual obervation it would be a fantastic 1st scope.

Good Luck with it

[Chris H]

Remember that you will use a scope more often if it is quick and easy to set up, in the beginning enthusiasm will get you through but after a while when you look out the window and see its a clear night will you drag the C11 out or will you think I can't be bothered.

[Tim]

If you would like to see a C9.25 in the flesh, and also the mounts that are capable of carrying them, you are welcome to pop over to my little garden observatory in Coventry. I can demonstrate the things involved with setting up etc, and you will get a feel for the weights of the kit involved. I'm not sure I would class a C11 as a portable scope, there is quite some weight to them, and quite some size. Just send me a private message if you like and we can work something out, you are almost next door in Leicester

What is your main interest with the telescope? Is there anything in particular you wish to observe? I agree with Olly, if I was purely interested in visually observing things, then I would probably go for an ALT/AZ fork mounted scope, likely with GPS capability for general ease of use. Something like one of these

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/cpc-gps-series/celestron-cpc-925-gps-xlt.html

or maybe the 11" version.

On an EQ mount you can end up with some awkward viewing positions sometimes, and although you can rotate the diagonal to make it easier, it can be a bit of a faff I find. For astro-photography though, an EQ mount is the preferred option.

You will also want to look at some decent eyepieces, dont bother with the cheap and cheerfuls, to get the best out of the optics you need good quality suitable eyepieces. I find the guys at FLO extremely helpful with their knowledge on this aspect.

Cheers

Tim

[Rob Severn]

I have just bought the very same scope from the very same place, due to the Celestron power lead not being up to scratch there have been a couple of issues with the mount but a good quality lead will sort this out, you'll need a good power source too, I have the 17ah Skywatcher powertank and this seems to do the job well. The views through the scope are wonderful and the 11 aperture sucks in a lot of light, the views I had last night of Saturn were fantastic. The mount is very stable and seems fine for viewing I don't know about imaging so I'll defer to Ollys greater experience on the matter.

It is a big scope but not really that heavy, I was quite surprise how easy it is to handle although mounting can be a little trick at first.

365 Astronmy has provided me with excellent service.

Edit: I cannot post on the supplier page yet so I'll post here.

Just a word about 365 Astronomy, the owner is a very very helpful guy and has gone above and beyond the call of in helping to sort out the initial niggles I had with the scope, including sending out some extra goodies (none of which were his fault). The scope and tripod were triple boxed and deliverybto France was very fast.

As the scope was purchased by my company he took the VAT from the price, something that a certain other very well known UK telescope shop flatly refuseded to do, even when their checkout system took the VAT off after being asked for my VAT number, the shop in question cancelled my order.

[swayzak]

In my opinion that setup is seriously under-mounted. The C11 is a good scope for all sorts of things but I would, without any doubt at all, want to see it on a mount at least one full step up the pecking order from that.

I think the scope is good for everything except wide field views and deep sky photography. For the latter, at that focal length, you would need a very good, accurate mount and it is not an easy thing to begin photography at those focal lengths. If deep sky photography is not on the agenda then maybe one of the fork mounted versions would be better? You could still use it for fast frame planetary imaging.

The mount is terribly important in astronomy and ten times terribly important in imaging! I thnik you would find that little mount very frustrating and likely to compromise the excellent planetary resolution of which the C11 is capable.

In visual use an alt-azimuthal mount is far more convenient because the range of eyepiece heights varies little and the orientation not at all. No polar alignment is needed, either, if you have no permanaent observatory.

I won't have any under-mounted telescopes at my place (I run an astronomy holiday centre) because they spoil the whole experience of observing. But the C11 for a good observing experience - yes.

Olly

ollypenrice's Photos

Thanks

How much extra cost would there be in changing the mount (I might be interested in some photography, including deep space) ?

Would this make it even more cumbersome to move ?

[swayzak]

check out the East Midlands social group on here, very active and lots of members. Introduce yourself and you may well get loads of expert scope advice and the chance to see many types first hand, plus you will be sorted for your dark sites too

Thanks - will do !

[swayzak]

If you would like to see a C9.25 in the flesh, and also the mounts that are capable of carrying them, you are welcome to pop over to my little garden observatory in Coventry. I can demonstrate the things involved with setting up etc, and you will get a feel for the weights of the kit involved. I'm not sure I would class a C11 as a portable scope, there is quite some weight to them, and quite some size. Just send me a private message if you like and we can work something out, you are almost next door in Leicester

What is your main interest with the telescope? Is there anything in particular you wish to observe? I agree with Olly, if I was purely interested in visually observing things, then I would probably go for an ALT/AZ fork mounted scope, likely with GPS capability for general ease of use. Something like one of these

First Light Optics - Celestron CPC 925 GPS (XLT)

or maybe the 11" version.

On an EQ mount you can end up with some awkward viewing positions sometimes, and although you can rotate the diagonal to make it easier, it can be a bit of a faff I find. For astro-photography though, an EQ mount is the preferred option.

You will also want to look at some decent eyepieces, dont bother with the cheap and cheerfuls, to get the best out of the optics you need good quality suitable eyepieces. I find the guys at FLO extremely helpful with their knowledge on this aspect.

Cheers

Tim

Thanks - I would love to see it. Will PM.

In terms of what I want - not sure yet ! Probably need to use a scope for a while to settle into an area of particular interest. But I do like photography so suspect I may want this option available.

[swayzak]

Well I've just bought this:

Collins Gem - Stars: Amazon.co.uk: Ian Ridpath, Wil Tirion: Books

And I've got my grandad's old binoculars - time to sweep the sky !

[ollypenrice]

Thanks

How much extra cost would there be in changing the mount (I might be interested in some photography, including deep space) ?

Would this make it even more cumbersome to move ?

An imaging-capable mount introduces a few issues.

Weight. The quoted max payload of mounts is usually wildly optimistic from an imaging point of view. Best to put little more than half the quoted maximum on the mount.

Tracking accuracy under autoguiding (which is essential, espcecially at these focal lengths.) Here you need to understand that the required tracking accuracy rises with focal length. The C11 has a huge focal length and so needs a very accurate mount.

Take these points together and you have a mount that is both big and expensive. The cheapest mount I would personally consider would be the new Dutch Mesu at about 4000 euros.

Mesu-Optics, Mesu-Mount

People do get the bigger Celestron or EQ6 to do the job but I would be wary of trying this since I have two EQ sixes and wouldn't want to go beyond 1.5 metres of FL on either of them.

For deep sky imaging you do need an equatorial, not a fork. Again, personally, I would not go near a fork on a wedge.

In truth, trying to learn imaging on a C11 is not at all what I'd advise and would suggest that you separate the visual from the photgraphic. The requirements are quite different. Have a look at the deep sky imaging board and see that most of us are using small(ish!) refractors which make life easier. That said, TJ has a real stonker up there from his Celestron SCT - but he has a lot of skill and experience.

The SCTs are incomplete, as sold, for imaging. You need an add on Crayford focuser and a focal reducer/ field flattener.

Olly

[beamish]

The SCTs are incomplete, as sold, for imaging. You need an add on Crayford focuser and a focal reducer/ field flattener.

Olly

Add to that a guide scope, guide camera, imaging camera, anti-dew systems, laptop/PC, patience, long uninterrupted sessions of clear good skies and a whole host of cables and software........

BUT don't let that put you off

[Tim]

You guys!!

I'll pop a pic of my SCT setup when I get home, dead simple, dead useful. Or as I say, pop around to see for yourself.

TJ

[umadog]

You might also want to consider other scope designs which could be quicker to set up. For instance, the scope you mention is equatorially mounted. That's useful, particularly for astrophotography, but plenty of folks have much success with alt/az mounted scopes. These are lighter and quicker to set up so you'll use them more. Just food for thought...

[swayzak]

You guys!!

I'll pop a pic of my SCT setup when I get home, dead simple, dead useful. Or as I say, pop around to see for yourself.

TJ

Would love to - can't see an obvious PM button. Maybe I don't have sufficient forum privileges yet ?

[RogerTheDodger]

Click the persons name.

[swayzak]

Doh !

Thanks - got it.

[ollypenrice]

You guys!!

I'll pop a pic of my SCT setup when I get home, dead simple, dead useful. Or as I say, pop around to see for yourself.

TJ

Okay but...

You make it look easy, Tim! I'm a born pessimist when it comes to imaging (though not in any other aspects of life, I don't think...) so I like overkill in all directions. Maybe I go too far in this, eh? But when it works it makes me happy and when it doesn't it makes me unhapphy, which is not the point of doing it at all! This always informs my posts on SGL, I guess.

Olly