Earl Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Could Dark matter be the mass generated by the virtual particles constantly cycling through existing and not existing hence been dark as they don't actually exist but on a cosmological scale there mass would be large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus 6 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Well what ever it is a definate explanation of what it is would be a big step in answering some questions that still need resolving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserClarke Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Could Dark matter be the mass generated by the virtual particles constantly cycling through existing and not existing hence been dark as they don't actually exist but on a cosmological scale there mass would be largeBut then it should be spatially homogenous across the Universe (because a virtual particle can be created at any point in space-time), not cluster like is observed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noakesy Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 does dark matter have a speed like light ,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotterless45 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 It is matter and there's a 400 times more of it than " normal " matter. It has a tangeable effect in giving more speed than expected to the edges of galaxies.It provides the "missing" mass to stars.I think it's the physical skeletal structure/glue that holds the Universe against accelerating expansion. Wherever there is gravity there is dark matter.Perhaps it has a quantum gravitational effect.I think we'll find out pdq it's a WIMP (Weakly Interacting Massive Particle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayBig Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 If it was truly dark, we'd see it....can we call it transparent matter instead...I'll start up a facebook group to get supporters for the idea and see if I can change physics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 But then it should be spatially homogenous across the Universe (because a virtual particle can be created at any point in space-time), not cluster like is observed.Could you provide a link to some more info on the cluster like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FraserClarke Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Could you provide a link to some more info on the cluster like?Well it has to be spatially inhomogenous, or it wouldn't have any net gravity to affect dynamics of other things -- there would be equally as much stuff pulling you to the right as pulling you to the left; and we'd all be left stuck here in the middle (as Stealer's wheel so elegantly put it). A couple of observational points to consider;The effect you see on the dynamics of galaxies requires a (roughly) 1/R^2 profile to explain it. e.g. Rotation curves of spiral galaxies and dark matterThe Bullet cluster is some of the best evidence for dark matter around -- try getting someone to explain that observation with MOND; Bullet Cluster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 cheers some good reading ill work through it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD333 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 There is something holding galaxies in place, and gravity is not it. If you take the theoretical dark matter out of the equation, galaxies would just disperse and nothing would hold together. I do like the idea of "transparent matter" lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Could Dark matter be the mass generated by the virtual particles constantly cycling through existing and not existing hence been dark as they don't actually exist but on a cosmological scale there mass would be largeWrong dark stuff . There is speculation that this is dark energy.But then it should be spatially homogenous across the Universe (because a virtual particle can be created at any point in space-time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 Wrong dark stuff . There is speculation that this is dark energy.I see, this would always be growing as there is ever more nothing all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 Am I correct in thinking:a) Nothing (space) is growing at an ever increasing rate. expansion rate is not accelerating but there is constantly more to expand so more expansion occurs. Visible Matter is always getting less due to it been converted into forms of energy.If these are correct how massive is this? If space is infinite then an infinite amount of space is brought into existence all the time due to it expanding.... i think i have popped a brain cell at this point.now i see the last part of "A Universe from Nothing" in the fact that there has to be and infinite number of universes in existence and coming into existence all the time... but if that is not the case then does not infinity exist?all because of the Dark Stuff's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayBig Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 [quote=Earl_UK;179958... there has to be and infinite number of universes in existence and coming into existence all the time...that's one of the interpretations of superposition in quantum physics - the super imposed wave functions being the interference between 2 universes, and the interference ending when an observation is made and the wave function collapses....or something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I see, this would always be growing as there is ever more nothing all the time?Yes, and this together with a hand-waving argument involving the first law of thermodynamics and quantum uncertainty is a possible explanation for the acceleration of the expansion of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Yes, and this together with a hand-waving argument involving the first law of thermodynamics and quantum uncertainty is a possible explanation for the acceleration of the expansion of the universe.Am i right in thinking that if infinity expands it expands infinitely all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 Am i right in thinking that if infinity expands it expands infinitely all the time?Only if space is infinite (open universe). Space, however, could be finite (closed universe).Yes, and this together with a hand-waving argument involving the first law of thermodynamics and quantum uncertainty is a possible explanation for the acceleration of the expansion of the universe.This hand-waving argument follows. It uses some maths, and should probably be binned. It also uses two letters that look very similar p and ρ, the Greek letter rho. p is pointed at the top while ρ is smooth at the top.When a gas of pressure p undergoes a volume change ΔV, a work (energy) equal to pΔV is required. This comes from the (internal) energy E of the gas, so the energy of the gas changes by an amount ΔE. Conservation of energy gives0 = ΔE + pΔVConsequently, the change in energy of the gasΔE = -pΔV (equation *)is negative if the gas expands. This means that the gas loses energy as it expands; this energy goes into expanding the gas.Now consider a "material" that still obeys conservation of energy0 = ΔE + pΔVandΔE = -pΔVas it expands, but that keeps its energy density ρ = E/V constant as it expands. Because E = ρV and energy density ρ is constant, the change in energy ΔE is related to the change in volume ΔV byΔE = ρΔVCombining this with (equation *) above givesρΔV = -pΔVwhich is only true if p = -ρ. If a material that maintains constant (positive) density expands, it must have negative pressure!Does any such "material" exist? The quantum vacuum probably has these properties. Because of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, the quantum vacuum has non-zero energy density (the virtual particles of the original post in this thread). Also, as the universe expands, there is more vacuum, but it's the same type of vacuum with the same energy density. Just as two gold bars have the same density as one gold bar, doubling the volume of the(quantum) vacuum doesn't change its energy density.Putting everything together, a positive energy quantum vacuum has negative pressure, and this negative pressure repulsion causes the expansion of the universe to speed up. This is dark energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryTheBlob Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I'm sure that once upon a time before the term 'Dark Matter' became popular the unseen material that held the universe in balance was refered to as the Ether... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider72 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Ether was a virtual medium, which in theory allowed light waves to propagate through vacuum of space before the nature of light was discovered and later explained by Einstein's theory of special relativity. Ether existance was disproved by The Michelson-Morley Experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryTheBlob Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I stand corrected and enlightened, what I'm getting at though is the term 'Dark Matter'. It does little to describe the phenomena and yet the media continue to propagate the term. I agree that 'Transparent Matter' is more like it but sadly not catchy enough for the media. I'm sure that there is a better term that this group could come up with. How say you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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