PeterStudz

In my experience (limited to many on here) seeing is never straightforward. I also think that it can be subjective. Using Jupiter as an example, and I have spent a lot of time on Jupiter over the last few years, some of my best seeing has been during the summer, which of course has been in the early hours. This year is no exception and my best seeing on Jupiter so far was back in July and early August. I’m in an urban environment so it might be down to that, but I’ve noticed it mentioned in the imaging section too. 

Then there’s the observers experience. Eg sometimes, under certain conditions, the seeing will briefly (for a split second) flick from fuzzy to sharp. Especially noticeable under high power. Over time at the eyepiece plus careful observation your eye/brain can combine those good split seconds into a good image. 

On some nights colours and colour contrast is better than others. Not getting your eyes use to the dark helps here. At first I wasn’t sure if this was seeing or transparency. But I’ve noticed that on nights of poor seeing Jupiter can often look washed out in colour and an overall shade of brown. It seems to coincide with a strong jet-stream and I’m getting to think that it’s something to do with poor seeing.

There’s some discussion about this here.

Personally I prefer to carry the OTA and base separately. In fact I fitted a handle to the OTA of my Skyliner (although I do have a homemade base) in order to make it even easier to carry.

I guess it comes down to personal preference and circumstances. Eg I have a dodgy knee - it’s not the weight but the awkwardness of carrying the whole thing. And I often use an EQ platform & it’s easier/quicker for me to plonk the base onto the platform without the OTA. 

Those little EQ1 motors mentioned above are all virtually identical (whether they are branded Celestron, Meade or whatever) and probably all come from the same factory in China.

I got mine from here…

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-mount-accessories/ra-economy-motor-drive-for-eq1.html
 

Initially to power an EQ1 mount which it’s designed to do. Then used to drive my DIY EQ1 platform. One of the best and cheapest  astronomy purchases I’ve made. 
 

It drives my 8” Dob with ease and my homemade base is relatively heavy and solid. I believe that @Mr Spock uses his platform with a similar/same motor drive for his 12” Dob. A 12” Dob is PROBABLY the safe limit, but as long as everything is well balanced you actually don’t need a powerful motor. 

I managed to see it. And as @Kon says “what a sight”. Although for me the seeing was rather pants and it clouded over soon after.

Nice image and I really like your composition.

I should make more of an effort to try  and do similar with my phone camera. After all, it’s with me most of the time!

I built an EQ platform for my 200p Dob which has a homemade base. The thing has been a revelation and greatly improved my observations. 

The one I made was from an excellent thread on here (see below). It’s simple, can be constructed with basic tool - eg electric drill, hacksaw, panel saw, screwdriver and materials easily available from eBay plus some plywood from just about any hardware store like Wicks. If you look through the thread there are complete instructions, even links on where to by your bits and bobs. 
 

3 minutes ago, IB20 said:

THANK YOU!!!

I’ve been trying to work out how to do that, it does my brains in when it keeps auto exposing.

When you have your target long-press the screen. That’ll put the lock on. I then fine focus using the telescope focuser to the lock, rather than trying to focus the phone camera to the target.

On 07/11/2023 at 07:41, Stu said:

Good stuff Peter, sounds like we saw similar features though I was only using a 4” so sure you saw more detail. I’ve been following the ‘bite’ out of the NEB; it shows on some of the images posted as a couple of white oval type features, though I’m not sure exactly how they would be classified. They show well in this post from Geof.

 

Somehow I missed your comment until now. But been busy most of this week.

But looking at that I think what I saw is something else. It’s in a different position - there’s a lot going on in the NEB recently. You can make out the “bite” or “notch” feature in the smartphone images, especially the last one with the shadow of Io, that I took (link below), although visually it was even more obvious. 
 

5 minutes ago, IB20 said:

Seeing your images, it’s the whites that I seem to struggle to promote in processing. So I’m either capturing at too low an exposure or tracking and stacking is making the difference.

I struggle with that too. To help I fiddle with exposure and brightness in the stock camera app. Then, when happy, put AE/Af LOCK on so that the camera doesn’t hunt around with exposure, focus etc. Also edit the video afterwards and play around with white balance in light room. Although in better seeing not only is the image sharper but the colours better too. Mind, I’m still learning.

Seeing decent, well, compared to what it has been (terrible) for what seems like forever! I really enjoy shadow transits, but mainly due to the weather this is only the second one I’ve observed this year. I was concentrating on visual and these images were from iPhone videos which I took just before and during the event. Seeing improved slightly as Jupiter got higher and the shadow transit of Io was underway. Wide-field using a BST StarGuider 5mm. The other two using a BST StarGuider 3.2mm which has proved surprisingly good when trying to capture Jupiter, even if visually the magnification is far too much.

Although visually I could make out Io against the SEB it hasn’t come out in the final image. Might have been more obvious when Io was nearer Jupiters limb. However, the actual shadow is clear and obvious. There’s also a “bite/notch” in the NEB which visually popped. Recently there seems to be a lot going on in the NEB. Several areas of turbulence following the GSR which could be seen visually have also come out in the images. I’ve done a double exposure/layer to get the moons. They might be a bit on the large side, but I can work on that. 

Southampton urban back-garden, Bortle 7. SkyWatcher 200p Dob on DIY EQ platform. BST StarGuider 5mm & 3.2mm. iPhone 14 Pro using no-brand smartphone adapter. Videos of around 45 seconds - 4K at 60fps plus x2 zoom, taken via stock camera app, edited using stock camera app. All processing on the phone. Stacked using the app VideoStock, WaveletCam, Snapseed and Lightroom.

Good to see others giving Jupiter a go. And they are getting better! I’m about to post something from earlier in the week.

Nice on and off session with Jupiter tonight with my 200p Dob from my back garden in Southampton.

For once (it’s been a while) the seeing was decent and I watched the GRS  transit. Colour contrast noticeably good. Best with a 7mm for approximately x170. I could see the shape of the GRS clearly defined plus several areas of turbulence following behind, looking like white swirls. Details in the SEB and especially the NEB which looked more undulating than it has been. Also an interesting and obvious “bite” out of the lower edge of the NEB. I could also make out banding in the southern polar region.  My daughter came out for a look and was suitable impressed. But a school night so she couldn’t stay out long.

Went inside for a break as Io was nearing the limb. Went out again in time for the shadow transit of Io. I could just make out Io itself on the edge of the SEB. The shadow itself really obvious and well defined. Seeing improved slightly, maybe because Jupiter was now higher in the sky. I watched the shadow transit for ages. I do find these mesmerising.

The sky for me was very clear for my Bortle 7 location and Orion was especially tempting, but work tomorrow.

I think that this would be a good idea for an SGL Challenge. In the past I’ve tried to do similar using smartphone images which I use to record my visual observations/what I’ve seen. Eg this, from back in September 2021, which is an animate GIF taken from an iPhone video, to try and illustrate Jupiter moving through the eyepiece of my DOB, plus the far too often atmospheric wobbles. Could do something better now but you get the idea. All editing and processing done on the phone.

2 hours ago, Stu said:

Don’t keep us in suspense Peter 🤣. I’m hoping you are having a lie in after seeing the shadow transit? It clouded over here and I needed to get to bed so didn’t see it.

Re seeing, it’s amazing how it changes, and how it varies between locations. Even last night the Moon was a wobbly mess, but Jupiter was rock steady a lot of the time when in the clear spells.

Exactly that. I was also on full English break duty this morning. 
 

Managed to see the start of the shadow transit between clouds before it finally got too much. I do really enjoy shadow transits - mesmerising to watch - and any is better than nothing!

Not sure why but for some reason just before or after clouds can improve the seeing.

Spoke too soon. I was about to pack up for the night but the cloud suddenly cleared. Now the views of Jupiter are far better  . I believe that there’s going to be a shadow transit of Europa in about an hour. But will it remain clear!

Interesting. I had a go at Jupiter tonight but anything much above x100 it was a wobbly mess. The worse views I’ve had in a long time. I could just make out the GRS as it came around the limb. But I’ve come in now as I have variable clouds overhead which are rapidly thickening! 

Like @Nik271 the seeing did improve, but after the shadow transit of Io. Earlier there was an annoying “boiling” which did improve but too late for the main event. Still, watching the shadow move across the disk was fascinating. And around the GRS, to one side, I could make out a couple of swirls. Not convinced I could see Io itself, but the shadow was really obvious. I also took a short smartphone video and created this quick illustration using the iPhone app VideoStack. Considering the seeing at the time it’s OK. The moon is Ganymede and it does do a good job of  showing what I could see in my 200p Dob.

Eventually clouded over and now it’s chucking it down!

I can see the shadow transit on Jupiter here in Southampton. Just come in. Very obvious shadow (like a small hole punch in the surface) But the seeing is poor. Still, the first I’ve seen this year!

I’ve put together some of my Venus images into one simple picture. Been meaning to this for a while and could probably do it differently, but I haven’t had much time. I think it’s a good little record of my time observing Venus during the period which was a surprising amount of fun!

All taken via iPhone video using a SkyWatcher 200p Dob from my garden in Southampton in my usual way. Then stacked on the phone using the iPhone app VideoStack, which works very well for this planet. All but one taken during daylight. All processing & editing done on iPhone 14 Pro and an iPad. 

The last, on the 15th August, was tricky. Due to the weather I was unable to able to observe near or at inferior conjunction. So this is slightly after and rather close to the sun. Some more information about this here…

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/412694-venus-barely-there-with-iphone-150823/

And as it’s after inferior conjunction it should really be inverted relative to the other phases. But that didn’t look quite right!

Phases of Venus Feb to Aug 2023

Sounds fantastic and a great write up. I’m in Southampton, my daughter also interested in astronomy. Only been out to the New Forest once with binoculars and been looking for suitable sites to try and take a telescope. Turfhill sounds a good spot and I’ll look into it.

Have an old university friend (that’s a long time ago!) over from the States. For him it’s the first time looking through a telescope. Just had a good session between beers observing the moon, saturn and jupiter with the 200p. Clouds coming and going but seeing surprisingly good. Could make out the Cassini division at the ring tips of saturn and make out three moons. Good detail on jupiter’s bands. A lot of dew here tonight. 

Interesting, but you can soon tell when someone is more into astronomy than others especially when they say things like “I could look at this for ages”. Total cloud cover now here in Southampton and it’s actually started drizzling - so back inside. Think that’s it for the night!

I’ve been busy recently so haven’t posted for a while. But still been at the telescope and messing with a phone camera, although the weather has generally been terrible! I now have quite a few images of Jupiter and here a a few relatively recent examples. All done towards the end of observation sessions. All processing on the phone or an iPad. I’ve deliberately kept the processing soft - it’s easy to be tempted to over-sharpen!

I think the first is interesting. Around the GRS there were 3 white swirls easily seen at the eyepiece. And a relatively large odd/out-of-place looking blue-ish disruption off the north editorial band. It was (probably due to contrast) far more obvious that the GRS and could be seen even when way out of focus. Maybe part of a festoon? Never seen anything like it before and the only mention of it I can find is by @Nigella Bryant who describes it perfectly in “What did you see tonight” (see post on 8th October)…

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/385898-what-did-you-see-tonight/page/156/

Anyway here’s the resulting image. Seeing was decent but something “transparency” made the images flick briefly in/out of focus. There was high clouds around so maybe that. However, the blue-ish area off the NEB shows up well as do the swirls around the GRS.

Sunday 8th October at 4:40am

The second image was captured just over a week later. Although I’ve gone a slightly different way with processing the swirls around the GRS are gone as is the blue-ish disturbance. The moon is Io and I’ve done a separate layer in order to increase exposure. I also whacked up the saturation which gave Io colour - I was surprised by this. It’s a mobile after all! Again, seeing was rather average.

Monday 16th October at 1:16am

One area where these can work is wide-field as the resolution isn’t so obvious. This on the same date/time.

A few things I’ve noticed. These were all taken using a BST StarGuider 3.5mm. Which with my 200p gives x375. Far too much power, certainly visually, and at the eyepiece Jupiter looks fuzzy. But it produces a better video than a lower power eyepiece (I have BST StarGuiders). Colours and colour contrast is better too and I struggle with colours anyway. Why, I don’t know. Maybe pixel size?

I find it tricky to get colours/colour balance to the way I like it. Sometimes Jupiter turns out rather brown.

If only I could get some good seeing! The last time that happened with Jupiter was back in the summer and then I didn’t bother taking any pictures. 

The latest version of the VideoStack phone app is far more stable and I’ve run/stacked 120sec videos without it crashing. Well done to the developer. Although anything more than 60sec doesn’t make much difference and might make things worse due to rotation.

With a tiny camera and none of the PC apps you are up against it. But I find it fun!

Skywatcher 200p Dob on DIY EQ platform. iPhone 14 Pro held at the eyepiece with a basic no-brand smartphone adapter. BST StarGuider 3.2mm & 5mm. 4K video at 60 fps using stock camera app. All processing on the phone/iPad. Stacked using the VideoStack app. Edited/processed using the stock camera app, WaveletCam, Lightroom and occasionally SnapSeed.

Hi @IB20, I’ve been very busy recently so haven’t posted on here for a while. But I have been messing around with telescope and smartphone so maybe time to post some results.

The updated version of VideoStack is much more stable and I’ve been able to stack 120 second videos, although that’s probably going a bit far due to rotation and around 50-60 seconds seems to be fine. Now the app hardly ever crashes. Still, I haven’t got any/much better images of Saturn than the above. Probably due to seeing and I stopped for the time being, concentrating more on Jupiter which is obviously higher in the sky and is giving more interesting results. 

For video capture I just use the stock iPhone camera app. With video set to 4K at 60 fps. Adjusting exposure and brightness in the app and usually using the iPhone x2 zoom. One other thing I’ve found is when doing a capture is to use a magnification higher than seeing seems to suggest. Visually the planet will look “fuzzy” but the resulting video when stacked is often better. Why, I don’t know. Eg on Jupiter (sometimes Saturn too) I’ve used  a BST StarGuider 3.2mm with my 200p giving a silly magnification of x375. It shouldn’t work but it often does. Colours are often better too. I’ll post some images I’ve taken of Jupiter soon.

My EQ1 motor certainly isn’t loud. As @mdstuart says - it “quietly ticks..and hums..”

A few random observations about wearing glasses at the eyepiece…

I’m very short sighted with slight astigmatism. But I don’t find observing without my glasses an issue. Apart from the fact that my finder won’t focus with glasses off - I’m too short sighted. I also have contact lenses which I occasionally use while observing. 

However, my daughter prefers to observe wearing her glasses. So I often wear mine so that I can see how she sees. 

I have a few BST StarGuiders. These have a big rubber eyecup. I find that with glasses the view is more comfortable if the eyecup on these is removed.

On bright objects (eg the moon & planets) glasses can cause glare and reflections. A variable polarising filter can cut these down. And in the daytime (white light solar and daytime Venus) you can get annoying rejections from stray light. An observing hood or hoody helps here.

I also suffer from floaters. Although still there when wearing glasses I definitely notice fewer floaters. Why I haven’t a clue.