wibblefish

Will be following this, have been looking at Dobsonians for a little while to complement my little 90mm frac and these look like they have some good standard bits (crayford etc) compared to the other options SW 200P / 8" Bresser. 

I keep wondering how portable they are (as I keep eyeing the 10" as well as the 8"), I don't have a long walk from the garage to the garden (out the garage through two doors) but due to the building angles etc I do have to move my scope around alot during the night which is easy with the light 90mm so any opinions on 8" vs 10" in regards be able to reposition without giving oneself a hernia would be appreciated before I commit many of the pennies in pursuit of a big mirror 

I would also add that the Heritage is a "table top" Dobsonian, if you have somewhere it can sit to bring it up to you (or are happy on the ground) then no worries but its one of the reasons I am looking at the 200P instead (though I am sure there are other solutions!). It is also worth noting the additional size / weight of the full 200P though (you can see it in some youtube videos) if you need to shift positions in your viewing site often. 

A little light reading, gave up real books a long while ago but astronomy seems to have caused a small addiction to print books again 🤔

33 minutes ago, Starslayer said:

Your post made me smile.  As a complete novice I took possession of my 1st scope etc mid may and until the last week or so the weather has been absolute " not clear ".  Got some solar in and a nice pic of the part eclipse in the brief moment of clear that I had.  My scope is larger - 6" sct with starsense explorer.  I love it.   The last couple of nights were firsts for me also. I had dabbled before with the odd cluster and doubles and started to find my way around.  The moon has been rising in daylight too recently ( see avatar ) so more fun.  Saturn and Jupiter have opened up to me now though and like you I was gobsmacked the last 2 nights.  They rise viewing from outside my front door which is not ideal as I am in a cul de sac with a double street lamp in the middle right outside my door. Notwithstanding that and my Bortle 8 skys,  Saturn appeared around 11.30 ish to my view and Jupiter a bit after that.  Got down to 187.5 x mag using Baader Zoom and was surprised at how clear the views were seeing as these were very low on the horizon. I just need to master setting up the phone mount with the Baader and getting things right in the dark..  Great sessions though and I feel / share your joy.  

Congratulations on your telescope, hope it continues to bring wonder!

I think its one of those sheer scale things, I mean I love the DSO / double stars / clusters and all sorts which I've been observing through winter (got my scope last Nov) and they are huge and gigantic beyond my comprehension. There is something different about seeing those neighbouring giant planets that gives me a real sense of wonder and makes me feel small against the infinite universe, I find astronomy very zen at times.

I finally found some time between hectic work schedules and cloud to get in my first observing since April (mad!) a few nights ago

Waited till around 1115pm (BST) till it got a reasonable level of summer dark and I was very surprised that there was so much to see in the clear evening with both eyes and telescope! With the added bonus of being able to observe in a t shirt and shorts

I figured I would go for bright objects which would be more visible both due to the lack of true dark and my telescope only being a small 90mm. 

Started with the Great Globular Cluster M13 in Hercules. I had seen this one before but it was still fantastic, it takes magnification well but unfortunately as last time I was not able to resolve any stars even at the edge of the cluster. I did even try my barlow with the 8mm EP but it was to much magnification as I ran out of focus room on the scrope

I next went for a new object that I had seen mention a few times on this forum, Ring Nebula M57 in Lyra. I had no concept of what this might look like in my telescope, if indeed I could find it, but after a few failed star hops as this was up near my telescopes max zenith I did manage to get into the right position to see it. At first I could only perceive it as an indistinct grey blob with some patience, averted vision and playing with different magnification I was astounded by the "ring" just hanging in the night sky. I imagine with a bigger telescope or on a darker night it would be even more amazing to re-visit. 

Finally with the hours creeping past midnight I had calculated that I may get a view of the planets Saturn and Jupiter. Unfortunately they are quite low in the sky and in my built up area with houses and various trees I was not hopeful. 

I was surprised therefore when Saturn appeared rising just above the trees, it was a bit murky at first but it gradually became clearer. This is the second planet I have ever spotted, with Mars being my constant winter companion so I pretty sure I just stood there watching it for a good 20 minutes taking in this small white dot with a perceptible ring around it. I did get the photo below through the EP with my camera phone but its not as clear as the visual was in being able to see the rings separation from the planet.  

After this spectacle I decided to pan across and see if Jupiter had risen. Again I was lucky and it had cleared the roof of the house opposite, a lot larger than Saturn I could clearly make out 4 moons in a line at various distances around it and areas of grey cloud banding on its surface. Again I was transfixed for a good 20-30 minutes switching back and forth before they both began to dip out of clear line of sight.

A marvelous night full of firsts, I hadn't quite realised how much I had missed the sheer wonder of the night sky in the few months I hadn't had time / opportunity to do some stargazing. It just goes to show no matter if its full summer there is still opportunities to observe   

13 hours ago, Tiny Clanger said:

You may recall that I started with a heritage 150 dob, which I still use much of the time , if no Moon or planets are showing themselves, it is the 'scope I take out. Short cool down, decent light gathering, and the simplicity and stability of the base just works, no faff. Bad points : low alt objects can be unavailable to it because it has a low viewpoint, and my fence gets in the way. High magnification can mean a lot of precision nudging to keep targets in view too. As with any newt, you get stars which have diffraction spikes, which some folk dislike..

Would I buy a full sized dob ? Yep, in a heartbeat. The Bresser 8" (200mm) would be my choice: it is a little more expensive than the skywatcher equivalent, but it seems better made, with nicer accessories and a superior alt bearing . It also seems it may be a bit lighter than the SW one, altho' reports of the skywatcher weight vary (while Bresser publish their measurements ) Bressser base 9.5 kg, tube  11.5kg ,  SW  tube officially 11kg, and the base I've seen given as anything from 12kg to 17kg. The lighter weight would contribute to ease of getting the dob outside, so another point for the Bresser.

However ... for the Moon, and planets, the longer focal  length of a mak is great,  as is having the 'scope on a mount with slo mo controls . The SW 102 mak  is sold by FLO bundled with a pronto mount , so I'd be confident the mount you already have would be fine for the 102, while the 127 mak at a bit over 3kg really needs a more substantial mount like the AZ5, pushing the price up.  Cool down takes a half hour or so, and dew on the corrector plate can be a pain,  but with the mak design doing clever origami on the light path, you have a compact 'scope with a long focal length.

If I was starting again , knowing what  I do now of what works for me practically, , I think I'd go for a bigger dob (200mm not 150mm) and a smaller mak (102mm not 127mm ) because using the mak only on bright objects I don't think I'd miss the extra aperture, but it would make a difference to DSOs in the dob.

However ... I've used my cheap second hand ST80 more often since I bought it than I have either of the other two 'scopes :  If I'm waiting for the mak to cool, or when there are brief gaps in clouds, and quick daytime forays out to look at today's sunspots , the ST80 is out, tripod extended and in use in a matter of moments.  I've enjoyed using it to the point where I am keen to try a step up to a 102mm frac  So, whatever you buy next, keep hold of your 'frac too !

Heather

 

Thats an interesting thought I guess now the SW and Bresser are not so far apart in price now. I vaguely remember some negative point on the Bresser being to do with mounting brackets and positioning for say RACI but I'd have to research it.

Ah good point on the 102, I think that was my original choice for a telescope before the stock problems happened! That could be a good way to go if I get to the business end of the year and decide I can't afford the Dobsonian route. I was thinking though is there that much difference between a refractor and Mak at such small apertures, do I want to spend £200 to find out

I honestly love the little frac, it stays in the garage with the tripod ready to go, it probably takes me more time to sort out my gear than it does to chuck it outside! I could do with mounting it a little more robustly in all honesty, but adding another tripod and mount head is going to be more than the original telescope package so it seems a bit pointless unless I was upgrading it or getting something like a 127 Mak  

Thanks for the info both!
 

Yeah zenith viewing on my refractor is a pain mostly because of the mount head as it tends to overbalance. I need to build a custom counterweight really to help stop that! 
 

To be honest I can probably cutdown my moves by planning better but thatll come with experience of what I can see when.

8 minutes ago, Pixies said:

I think an 8" dob would compliment your current scope quite well - wider field and fainter objects. Obviously you are familiar with finding objects and following them. Your current eyepieces and finders will work with both too.

I am in lighter skies than you and can see plenty with an 8" reflector.

I have been leaning towards that purely since it’ll cost a lot less (even with the new prices) as I wont have to also buy a new mount. The 90 is a very good grab and go with no to little cooldown so its good for throwing out on iffy nights as well!
 

My main questions would be

- How do Dobs behave looking upward? Zenith happens alot at present! 
- Are they massively portable? I would want to be repositioning it several times a night I guess. It would also be good if they fit through a standard doorway though I can always wheel out of the garage front if needs be

- Whats the cooldown time like on a Dob?

Alas my telescope hasn't had much light since mid April with one thing and another getting in the way and not having the time (nor enthusiasm at present alas!) to stay up very late / get up super early to catch what little darkness there is at present. I am hoping to catch the occasional moongazing night or get a good Fri / Sat session planned in (another limiting factor at the moment!) in the near future!

That said I am reviewing my notes and playing with the idea of what would I get if I was to get a new telescope (observing only astrophotography is far to expensive for my blood!) towards the end of the year - it must be similar to the weather related boredom I had in the winter 

So as a beginner I currently have an AZ Pronto (alu legs) with a Skywatcher 90/660 refractor, I've enjoyed a bit of everything from moongazing, planet spotting (Mars only), DSO fuzzy spotting (very faint grey blobs mostly!), some double splitting and of course the wide field star clusters have been spectacular. My garden is fairly constrained in most directions (mostly due to buildings / trees) with a fair amount of light pollution due to street lamps or neighbors security lights (Bortle 5, 20.46 SQM). I tend to have to move the telescope quite a lot throughout the night to get the right angles to avoid said lights as much as possible. The AZ Pronto does ok but its a bit over weighted in all honesty due to the BST eyepieces and can slip at times especially as I do have to angle towards the zenith quite often. 

So my options I think:

- Obviously the easiest answer is to stick with what I have and carry on learning and tinkering, especially if I am not getting much use out of it again till maybe end of July / Aug 

- Upgrade to a bigger aperture refractor, I do like the portability / storage of short tubes so maybe a Star Travel 120 or Bresser AR127-S? I guess as well as being weightier they would exaggerate any CA / SA, I get both in my little 90 but its not worried me to much so far. 

- Add a Dobsonian, probably something like the 8" Skywatcher 200P that is pretty much the staple beginners telescope rather than the 10" considering how much moving around I have to do in the garden...

- Add a Mak maybe a Skymax 102 or 127? I did enjoy the double splitting but I don't think I am really in the right location to snag many planets etc on a regular basis though. I am not sure how useful Maks are for other things such as DSO etc due to the narrow field. I guess a 102 might be able to share the same mount as my 90mm.

Any other suggestions welcome. 

In terms of other kit I have:

- Altair 1.25" Di-Electric Diagonal

- BST 8,12,18,25 1.25" eyepeices

- BST 2x Short Barlow 

- Rigel QuikFinder

- Skywatcher 7x30 RACI 

- Various filters 1.25"

Budget wise I guess I would be looking at around 400-500 though might be able to stretch to 600.

Yeah I had already done the wind forward time a bit with Stellarium and Skyview (I think I checked at the end of Aug and into Sept) hence why I think there "may" be a window through various obstacles in the direction but I have found that your mileage often does vary with the mobile app positioning sadly! I like the idea of the custom landscaping etc so might have to look into that with the various apps I have and see what is possible  

Failing that this year I will at least know for next year that I maybe have to go to another site if needs be, I am also going to check the same positioning at my in-laws place across town as they have a more open area!

Clearly I now need a small portable Mak 90 / 100 in addition to the 8" Dobsonian that is on the wish list when darker skies return later this year  

@Stu appreciated, I am hoping there might be a window of time in August where I can grab a view of both planets from my garden at some silly small angle between a house and a tree lol guess I'll have to wait and see, Stellarium and Skyview disagree slightly on the exact angle as per where I point the phone

If not I'll have to work on getting something a little more portable next year and driving out somewhere of an evening  

12 hours ago, Stu said:

Over the months, as they approach opposition they will transit earlier so you will start to be able to see their at their highest when it is darker.

Jupiter is at opposition on 20th August this year, Saturn on 2nd August and Mars not until 8th December 2022.

Forgive me the noobish question but I am currently trying to work out if and when I will be able to try and see Jupiter and Saturn as I am quite constrained in the directions Stellarium is telling me about sadly ... would these dates be when they will likely reach the highest points in the sky? 

Appreciate the comments all 😎 I will just continue to find some time late evening when I can and hope the clouds work in my favour!

Since I got my telescope back in Nov last year I have been enjoying the sights on the regular basis (when the cloud permits!) but at the moment I find myself in a bit of an ebb with it due to either unfavorable conditions or to little dark (yesterday didn't get anywhere near proper dark nights till 11pm). I am also restricted to only really having Friday / Saturday nights to play with at the moment and due to small kids and work during the week means I don't want to be up super late! 

What does everyone else do in these lighter months, are you staying up later to do the odd hour around midnight or up early in mornings? 

My apps are all over the place, suggesting clear when its been cloudy the whole day.

Unfortunately I missed the good week or so we had a couple of weeks back as I am currently restricted to Fri / Sat nights  

Hoping for something soon so I can get the dust sheets off the scope been a good month or so!

An unexpectedly and superbly clear night (best of what has been a poor one for observing thus far in 2021) brought a couple of DSOs during a quick hour session.

With my neighbours recent blitz on felling most of the tall trees on our boundary Hercules is now visible earlier in the evenings. I chanced a look at M13 and very easily located the globular cluster. It appeared as a very bright, diffuse grey patch between two stars. I tried several different resolutions down to 4mm but only got a hint of starting to resolve any detail on individual stars.

As with other globulars I have tried my 90mm refractor simply doesn’t  have the light grasp to see detail but it was a pleasure to view nonetheless.

With Leo high in the sky I decided to continue my hunt for the Triplet. Unlike previous nights I easily located M65 with an 18mm EP observing a bright core in the centre of a vertical fuzzy.

After another 5-10 minutes I also confirmed the dimmer core and shape of M66 alongside. Both held up well down to 12mm.

I then spent a good 20 minutes and many star chart consultations before I could discern  the very faint smudge of NGC3628 via averted vision. Once I had spotted it I was able to centre on the nearby star and observe all 3 galaxies at once which was a pleasing sight at last! 

Overall a great night and if it had been a weekend I would likely have stayed out longer! Whilst my telescope is at its limits  observing the faint grey fuzzies (especially in my bortle 5) I  do find hunting them enjoyable

Interestingly I have a similar problem with my short tube refractor but I assumed it was related to that telescope design. I find if I have to much glass (usually barlow lens and then a filter) I cant bring it to focus. 
 

Have you tried bringing either the barlow (or the EP or both) back a little? Being careful not to have it to loose and risk falling / damage but you can sometimes not insert everything fully and that may help?

Did your 130p come with any little extension tubes to add? I vaguely recall someone mentioning this on another thread about this type of telescope.

Skyview if you want something that lets you just wave your phone at the sky. You can’t zoom in though which can be annoying. There is a free version to which just has slightly less objects in the search.

Stellarium+ also does that to a slightly worse extent but has lots more information and is zoomable / scrollable.

Tried Sky Safari as everyone seems to use it but not really impressed with it so far compared to the other two (and its more expensive I think). It might just be I need to sit with it and play with it which is what I found with Stellarium+ as I didnt get on with that at first.

Beyond that ScopeNights and ClearOutside are useful for weather.

Since it was showing as close to the cheapest its been on Amazon for a few years I decided to splash on a complement to my Pocket Sky Atlas ... I appreciate phone apps are probably better but I am enjoying paper maps! 🔭

Is it this one, looks like its $80 retail for the basic package here:

https://www.celestron.com/pages/celestron-starry-night-software

If it is just generic skymaps there are many free ones to be had on your phone / computer or some that are pretty good but not so expensive on iOS I use Skyview and Stellarium+ at present. I am sure others will be able to chime in with different platforms / options if that is what you are looking for  

That sounds great always nice to get out with some new kit! I would love to see the difference between an APO and my Achro at some point in the future but unless I win the lottery and buy an ED120 I suspect that won't happen

I look forward to seeing the astrophotos out of it (I am presuming its been bought for that task primarily) still lets here it for positivity, I was happy enough to get out a couple of nights ago for the first time in a month and I am hoping the positive weather that is meant to be coming for the next few nights actually materializes for some prime moongazing! 

Definitely improves my mental outlook when I get a chance to take the telescope out, be interesting to see how viewing evolves as the nights pull out into my first summer in the hobby (few late nights in the summer with beers? :D).

I replaced my diagonal a little while back from the stock primarily to gain a compression ring to hold my eye pieces. I am pretty sure there is a slight improvement over stock but its not a massive step up (still every little helps?).

I bought this one from Altair which was slightly cheaper but still feels quite premium  

https://www.altairastro.com/125in-lightwave-premium-dielectric-diagonal-red-765-p.asp 

Thanks for the replies all, its nice to hear I am not very far off track with my observations at least! Will definitely have to revisit even if its just to reconfirm my positioning  

Now all this talk of large telescopes has got me thinking, can I possibly hide a 200P in the garage from the wife...

16 minutes ago, Orange Smartie said:

Yes, sorry I should have been clearer. By "darker" I mean on a night with no moon (or at least with the moon rising later).

Ah if only the lovely weather would cooperate! I was just happy my first night in a month went well, had 2 other nights where I booted up, got the scope out and by the time I opened the caps .... full cloud  

27 minutes ago, scarp15 said:

If you can save up for an 8" dob, this will transform the views of Globular Clusters. They do require mid to high power to resolve more completely. Perhaps learn to adapt a touch of averted vision, as this to will assist to resolve the star cluster. M53 is quite tightly condensed, M3 will resolve more easily into a dazzling display of star fields. It is still a little too early for Hercules and M13, M92. Also wait until they culminate due south, try to become a little dark adapted and take some time to absorb the light entering your observing eye. 

What you have grasped so far with your 90mm refractor will improve as you gain more observing experience. Under moderate light pollution and away from a bright moon, the brighter Globulars will resonate. You could also look presently at some Open Clusters such as M44, Beehive Cluster and a little below this, yet much more subtle is M67 and again experiment with magnification.

Its definitely on my radar, going to wait till nearer the end of the year before working out what to get next, I was sold on a Skymax 127 for a while for double star duties but I am leaning towards an 8" Dob purely for the light grasp and the fact I don't have to spend a ton of extra money on new mounts (though moving up to a ST120 is tempting.....). Either way the little 90 will be staying put just purely for grab and go with the gaps in the crap weather as it has zero cooldown! 

Thanks for the responses! 

@Orange Smartie I am not sure how much darker I can get at this site alas, this was around 11pm at night, Bootis is to low for me till that sort of time anyway I think as I haven't really seen it over the winter months). If I ever great brave I'll have to go to a darker site but with small un's thats probably not going to happen for a while, best I could probably do is get a bigger aperture though not for a while!  Yeah I was disappointed magnifying (tried 12 and 8mm) didn't really do much other than make it fuzzier! I will have to try M13 at some point but its in the wrong place at present!

@Waddensky Oh well that's good to know, I will have to do some reading then and see. Still happy to have found new things with the 90mm frac again, always fun looking for those little "smudges" of grey ... most people I tell are supremely underwhelmed ... "so you spend half the night and you found an indistinct grey blob" "well yes but its actually a massive cluster of stars tens of thousands of light years away" lol