Tiny Clanger

I was trying to gently prod the O.P. into doing a little thinking about the practicalities for themselves. The footprint of an extended tripod and the maneuvering around it needed to look through a newtonian's viewfinder are easy things to overlook in the rush of excitement when money is burning a hole in your pocket,. It might be a spacious balcony , or it could be cramped and full of chairs, tables, and plant pots .

OK, I'm sure someone will be along with personal experience of the things on your list , I have none, so can't really help much with specifics. However, two points you may want to consider : First, you listed a 30mm and a 15mm ep . If you use a 2x Barlow on the 30mm, that will make it a 15mm ! So if you choose two eyepieces which are not 1:2 , with the barlow you'd get 4 different magnifications. E.G. 30mm and x2 Barlow = 15mm 10mm and x2 Barlow = 5mm , So you have 30mm, 15mm, 10mm and 5mm to use ! I don't know what the vixen range has in it, or if they are any good, that is just an example. Second thing to think about : the tube of the telescope is 750mm long, I don't know the span of the tripod feet when the legs are extended, but find out, and mark it out somehow on your balcony to see what it will really be like ... remember either one or two feet of the tripod will be against the outer wall , the remaining leg(s) will have to be got around by you, and the telescope will be balanced so the centre of the tube will be near the centre of the tripod : will there be enough room to easily move around the telescope ? You view from near the top of the tube, in a newtonian will that be a problem as you swing the tube left and right ? Heather

Excellent choice ! Predicable, me ? ! Surely not ... Heather

Yep, my first tentative EP purchase was a skywatcher 17mm 'super' plossl , because I wanted to see for myself if better EPs really would give my eyes, in my garden, through my 'scope a better view worth £20 ... I went for the 17mm as it was part way between the 10 and 25mm , so even if it wasn't any better, I'd at least have an extra magnification step. It was so much better I added a 32mm from the same series. Reading about the drawbacks of plossls at greater magnification, I went mad and splashed the cash on an 8mm BST starguider (from Alan at 'The sky's the Limit' , a few £ cheaper than other sellers , and he is a very nice guy , responding to my daft questions politely. ) . Happy to report that the BST starguider is as far ahead of the SW super plossls as they are of the bundled 10mm . A few BSTs came up secondhand on here, and were snapped up in minutes, finances meant I could only realistically choose one of them, so I got a 25mm and have retired the bundled one. If/when any become available second hand, get in fast ... I'll race you (as will many others !) Heather

You are welcome, I hope you manage to get a 'scope soon. I had email exchanges with FLO to find out exactly what happens if you order something which is currently out of stock . Short version is , because of the way their payment system works , your credit card is billed as soon as the order is placed. FLO give precedence for whatever 'scopes come in by date of order, but if you decide to cancel your order before the stock arrives , for any reason, they will refund your payment. Obviously you then lose your place in the queue for the 'scope ! I asked them to give an idea of if they expected I'd be lucky with my order, i.e. if they had many orders for it before mine , and if they anticipated getting sufficient 'scopes delivered . I added that I appreciated any reply would be a best guess. They gave me the information I needed, so I ordered the 'scope. Days later, neurotically watching the 'out of stock, due xx to xx working days' message on the 'scope page I was a bit concerned that the lead time took an upward jump. I inquired about it, and was told the number of pre-ordered items had exceeded the expected delivery, so the lead time had increased for any new orders, but mine had the expected delivery from when I placed my order. A really smart system. I've bought smaller items from FLO since, and noticed the stock count online has instantly decreased by one . Other retailers seem to be more a physical shop with an online presence added as an afterthought, and their stock reports are a tad vague by comparison. Heather

There you are ! An advantage 😀 Now find out what you may be able to see , there are lots of apps and websites out there , I like stellarium, the online version can work out where you are , https://stellarium-web.org/ just rotate the view and zoom it so it shows you the view to the south. On a clear night compare the view from the balcony with the stellarium screen and zoom in/out to get a decent match. There is a downloadable version too, which has more controls. It's free . Heather

It costs £200 plus delivery, and contains: "32mm Ploessl eyepiece 15mm wide angle eyepiece 10mm Ploessl eyepiece 6.3mm Ploessl eyepiece 2X Barlow lens 5 colour filters Moon filter camera adapter" Check the prices of decent quality branded similar items individually : I recently bought a 32mm plossl for under £30, a 17mm for £23 ( a 10mm in the same series would be £20), and a barlow for £25 which incorporates the camera adaptor. A set of cheap colour filters plus moon filter from China cost me £13 from Amazon. Total price under £115, the only items not there are the case the 6.5mm plossl (which would probably not be used very often, the barlow and 10mm would show you a similar magnification if you ever needed it) . Do you need all those items ? Will you use them all ? Are there extras you will come to realize you need after a couple of months that are not in the kit ? No way of knowing, and I'm the sort of person who does not like throwing money around without finding out exactly how useful a purchase is to me. Am I in love with my own choices which I have developed over many years ? No. I bought my first proper telescope 7 months ago after a lot of research , and I am not suggesting you buy a dobsonian reflector because I understand that while it was a good choice for me, it would be a poor choice for you on your balcony. Please read that thread I linked to above , I don't want your expectations to be unrealistic , and your money to feel wasted.

Dreams not crushed, just reshaped a little ... The planets ( apart from Neptune/ Uranus) are relatively bright. I've seen them from my back garden on the edge of a city , no problem. I've seen details of the Martian surface with a telescope that cost £200 and an eyepiece that cost £25, but it needed a clear night and a lot of practice and persistence. However, I wouldn't want to mislead you, book illustrations , nasa photos etc give beautiful crisp views of the planets which we will never get because of the layer of air we are looking through. You may not get a totally sharp image for instagram (or whatever) , but the personal satisfaction of having caught a sight of Mars' Southern Ice cap or the rings of Saturn with your own eyes is huge, even if it is a bit fuzzy. If your father's balcony faces south, south east or south west, the planets will be there for you to see.

I'm guessing someone on some social media or advert claims they took this photo themselves, and you doubt them ? Ask them for the original image file and check the exif with one of the freely available tools. It is hidden information about when the image was taken, and with what camera. Plenty of information about exif out there, just do an online search.

There is a clear explanation of what to expect here: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/ The sort of crystal clear views you hope for need not only good equipment, but also a very stable, dark and clear atmosphere. You've not said whereabouts you live so it's impossible to say , but if there are no streetlights and you are up a mountain in a dry and cloudless part of the world you are lucky !

What I failed to completely grasp before actually buying and using a 'proper' telescope is that some of the accessories are just there as a 'get you started' measure, I liken them to those special, low capacity ink tanks some inkjet printer manufacturers supply with new printers . Enough to prove the thing works, but you will soon be spending some more money ... Every skywatcher 'scope I've looked at seems to come with the same 10 and 25mm eyepieces, the 10mm is horrible, the 25mm is OK The cheapest upgrades would be standard plossls ( around £20-£30 each) which are a small but noticeable step up , but the current favourite recommended 'cheap' eyepieces are BST Starguiders, which are at the moment close to £50 each including P&P. Ditto the finder on most scopes is a very basic model, I put up with the RDF for a few months, but performing contortions to get my eye in line , and problems with averted vision visible objects being impossible to see looking straight at via the RDF sent me buying a RACI ... Then on my shiny new mak I can use the RACI, but ... there is only one finder shoe, and an RDF would be useful for some brighter objects, and I'm too cowardly to dismantle it to drill holes for a second shoe ... So I end up buying a rigel quickfinder which has a small footprint, stick-on base . So, I've spent around £80 in total on better finders (which can be swapped between the two 'scopes ) and at least double that on eyepieces. Nearly forgot, there's the original kit diagonal on the mak, it was plasticky and not very lovely. I got lucky and bought a second hand skywatcher dielectric star diagonal second hand from a seller on here , new it would have been £69.

Actually the skywatcher 6x30 RACI has 2 screws/one spring as well . I am sure of this because I bought one a couple of months ago, and keep twiddling the spring cover in the dark ,forgetting that only 2/3of the protrusions affect the aim ! The RACI gets swapped between my 127 mak and 150 heritage dob, but having it on the mak takes up the single available shoe ( I don't want to get a multi adapter, they are a too big and cumbersome for the little mak) . I feel the need for a RDF type device on there as well though, so have bought a Rigel Quickfinder, which is roughly as tall as the RACI, but has a small footprint (I posted the exact measurements on a thread about binocular finders not long ago) and two bases come with the Rigel, to suit different tube diameters, you fix them with the very strong sticky foam pads included in the package. The rigel unclips from the base so can be shifted between 'scopes. I went for the rigel over the telrad (which is a more popularly acclaimed finder and also has an adhesive fitting option) because the telrad is so long , check it's dimensions, it may be longer than your tube ! Heather

Does it have a sunroof ? 😘

Glad the dob solution hadn't entirely escaped your consideration ! The heritage 150 dobs (and I think the 130s) have the standard rails so could be used on a tripod with a suitable head . I seem to recall one of the smaller ones in the range has a camera tripod screw type socket on the underside of the base so it can be mounted straight on top of a photo tripod . If I was a halfway competent carpenter I'd make a sturdy box which would be a safe store for the 150 and also a support for it while in use. Heather

How did I miss this opportunity to lavish praise on the heritage 150 dob ? Let's make up for the omission now . I bought one as my first proper 'scope, it is great. I simply don't have storage for a solid tube dob , but the 150p is easy to store, easy to carry, and fits on one car seat (secured by the sea belt) . I've made it a 'shroud' from 3mm closed cell foam and duct tape, added some plumber's ptfe tape to the focusser, and made it it's own little table from some reclaimed wood (my low garden table is very heavy cast iron, I got tired of moving it around) I like the simplicity of the thing, and the fact that most of the money went into the mirror. I've since added better eyepieces and a different finder to improve the views and the ease of use . You will probably want to do the same, whatever you buy, do not expect the telescope package you buy to be the end of expenditure, however much you spend ! Heather

Sorry, somehow I managed to not include a link to Jasonb's thread about his MWM observing session , here it is: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/368237-the-moore-winter-marathon/

Would that be the traditional 'a shallow grave in Epping Forest ' I used to read about in the papers ?😀

I know you mention only maks and refractors in your original post, but still , given that you have an interest in Messier objects, why not consider a Heritage dob ? Portable, inexpensive , and a lot of bang for your buck : the 'tabletop' base can be parked on a picnic table if one is available, I made a sturdy (but not pretty) triangular topped table out of some of the wood from a dismantled old Ikea sofa plus £8 worth of 25cm long tubular metal legs (actually £6 worth, it was a set of 4, I only needed 3, one is languishing in the loft ...) The 130 is £159 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html the larger version 150 (which is the one I bought) is £199 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/sky-watcher-heritage-150p-flextube-dobsonian-telescope.html If you doubt the capabilities of the 130, there's a huge thread about them under the 'astronomers without borders' name under which they are sold in the USA, have a browse through the many pages and see what people have managed with them ! https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/463109-onesky-newtonian-astronomers-without-borders/ Heather

Well now, that's two votes for the MWW ! 😀 Heather

Don't feel you need to apologize for your telescope, Galileo saw the 4 biggest moons of Jupiter with a telescope he made which had 20x magnification and yours does 20x and 45 x ... A simple cost free upgrade for what I'm sure is quite a flimsy tripod that wobbles a bit is to try to find a way to use it without extending all of the sections, certainly not the thinnest, lowest one. Maybe you have a wall, a good solid table or something similar in a handy place you can stand a less extended tripod on and keep the eyepiece at a convenient height ? Or maybe you could sit down while using it . Old photographer's trick to steady a lightweight tripod is to hang something from the centre . A bit of string, a carrier bag and a few tins of tomatoes (other tinned foods are available 😀 ) will help, just take care not to tie on to a flimsy part of the tripod and risk breaking it. Your lower magnification of 20x is about double that of the hand held binoculars most often suggested for astronomy use, so it might be useful to look at sky watching suggestions targeted at binocular users . I've suggested the Moore Winter Marathon a few times before http://astrog80.astro.cf.ac.uk/mwm/ as a useful downloadable couple of PDFs which can be printed out and give a set of accessible targets with notes on what each object is, and helpful diagrams to find them. It's an old list, so the planet location info is out of date, but the rest is good. I'd suggest you download the pdf from the tab labelled 'Observing Guide PDF' under the 'naked eye and binocular' map and give them a go with your telescope. There's a thread here where a fellow newbie posted his experience of trying to see some of the objects , and I added a few links of more free stuff. I like free stuff ! Speaking of free stuff, Stellarium is a good program to download, or there is a slightly simplified online version Good luck, enjoy your Christmas present Heather

Ah, Handwavium, my favourite element on the periodic table 😀 Admittedly it's on the back of the periodic table , but it's an element with so many uses ...

My most useful non-standard accessories would include the glow in the dark tape I've added around the bottom of each tripod leg. Then my bodged together waist bag (adapted from a pouch meant for photo kit) with compartments to hold 3 eyepieces safe clean and insulated, a clip to hold my gloves if I have to take them off, and a velcro patch which holds a £1 cree headtorch which has had red acetate stuck over the LED, the head strap cut off, and velcro glued on the back. Finally the orange, coated ripstop, 100% waterproof cover with drawcord edge, (a repurposed 45l Lowe Alpine rucsac cover) which keeps the 'scope protected while it cools outside. Total cost , under £7, plus a bunch of odds and ends I had lying around , but the value to me in convenience and ease of use is enormous.

OK, three questions : 1) Do I need to send any money and/or my passport to a Nigerian prince to "authenticate" the prize ? 2) If I forget the 6 other people can I have 12months away please ? 3) What about 6 months away and half the astro kit , £125 thou would be plenty, after all I'm a visual only sort of observer ...

It would irk me too ... I bet a bit of online searching would dig up some comparisons of what features the different PS editions had , Or maybe you could cross reference your new book with the CS2 manual to see if all the operations you need are possible : https://www.manualslib.com/manual/393340/Adobe-Photoshop-Cs2.html I know there have been folk who have attempted to make the free 'GIMP' photo editing software. look and work as much like photoshop as possible since PS went cloud/.sub based, and upset a lot of folk , but I don't know how successful that has been . Heather

Not so much photoshop lite as photoshop ancient 🙂 , or to a fan, perhaps photoshop classic ... It was the full , brand new product in 2005. I've no experience of astro photo processing with it, but you have the basic tools like layers, levels etc . I expect there are probably useful plugins written for later versions which it won't handle . The photoshop lite type thing would be photoshop elements, it is a cut down version, not cloud & subscription based, but a one off purchase . I've not seen the newer versions of it, so can't say for sure if it is up to the job, but I doubt it , someone somewhere would have said if it was ! Heather