Tiny Clanger

Unfortunately, yes ! As I said, I bought a second hand di electric skywatcher , and as well as the far nicer mechanical aspect , it seemed much brighter when it had first light on the Moon ... but there was something on the mirror, a tangle of fluff ?! Except it wasn't a tangle of fluff at all, it was an eye floater 😞 . I'd not even noticed it with the stock diagonal, perhaps because I'd used it so little , but I do wonder if the greater precision of the better diagonal made the floater more clear and noticeable, just as it improved the clarity of my view of targets ! So an unfortunate side effect was finding I had eye floaters . I think I read somewhere on here that the skywatcher (and presumably Stella M ) ones have a stop inside which limits the wide field use more than some other diagonals, but I've no idea if that's accurate, and I'm not using the mak for wide field so wasn't alarmed by it. The original diagonal spent a while in my ST80 (which came with nothing beyond the tube itself) but has been replaced with a £10 Chinese one from Amazon which is quite a bit better physically, and not bad visually either, especially after I took it apart and flocked the inner triangular sides after reading about it on here ... Heather

I've used one for a while, it certainly reduces the search area (I know from stellarium that the object I cannot see through the finder is at this altitude , so set the 'scope up to that angle and scan side to side ) and is cost effective , mine was £10, I expect they are around £15 by now. Practically I found I was fumbling the buttons with cold fingers in the dark and accidentally turning on the (dazzling , green) backlight instead of the level (which has a timed auto shut down I can't change). I solved that by sticking some glow in the dark tape on to identify the on button. It's certainly useful for me, but for a 9 year old, supervised by a visually impaired adult ? They would have to follow these steps 1) Level the telescope mount so that scanning horizontally ( az axis) keeps the same vertical (alt) angle as you pan the 'scope. 2) find the object they want to target on the app 3) read off the object's alt setting (ignoring or rounding the digits after the decimal point) 4) Switch the level on, get a red light torch on the display so you can read it, and tilt the telescope until the level reads the required alt . 5) look through, and pan the 'scope gently across the correct area of sky without disturbing the alt setting. It works, but I find it a faff, and only resort to it when I can't find a faint fuzzy any other way. I'd happily recommend it to an adult beginner, but taking account of the child's age I don't think this is a practical solution for her . Dad wants to help, but he cannot see well enough to do so. I really don't think there is an easy answer here , it's either obvious targets a 9 year old can learn to point a low magnification scope at independently, or find a sighted helper, club or sympathetic amateur to help . Can a 9 year old point a refractor at the Moon with no help ? Certainly they can. I did with a toy one I was given one Christmas when I was younger than 7 (when we left the house where I vividly recall having that astonishing first sight of the Moon magnified ). I'm pretty sure that refractor had no finder beyond some protrusions on the tube to sight along too. Heather

I can't comment on the mount, because I've only ever used simple alt/az , but the skymax 127 I do own and use . for planets and the Moon. The cool down time it needs is something to keep in mind, pop it outside to cool for at least half an hour, but it is portable (I have mine on an AZ5 and photo tripod, leave it assembled, and can carry it outside in one go , despite being a weedy girlie). As soon as I bought mine and set it up, it became apparent that the stock diagonal was poor , lightweight, plasticy , and incapable of holding any but the lightest eyepiece securely. So my immediate upgrade was a better diagonal, I was lucky enough to get a skywatcher dielectric one second hand , and it works well. As well as the skywatcher diagonal, FLO's stella mira range has an effectively identical one for £10 less but both of those are out of stock like so much else , this looks like a good one in stock and still under £100 https://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/william-optics-125-dura-bright-dielectric-diagonal.html The 127 definitely needs a dew shield , you can buy one or make one yourself very cheaply, and various thrifty ways to get fine focus control can be found, from the peanut butter jar lid one ( do a search on here to find threads with photos ) to the one I use ... clip a clothes peg on to make a lever you can operate with a fingertip 🙂 I always suggest, hold back some of your budget, there will inevitably be something else you find you need or want once you have the 'scope up and running. I suspect alternative power sources for mounts which theoretically work from AA cells are a common next purchase, and many folk feel they would benefit from different or better eyepieces . Heather

🙂 I've not been doing this for very long, and I'm sceptical about the marginal improvements gained by paying more, but as far as I can see , wide field and cheap do not go together. The 60 degree BST starguiders I've bought will mostly do fine for me , not problem with any of them in my mak at f12, but I wanted to see if I could improve on what the 25mm BST shows me in my f5 dob, which is a more picky 'scope ! You could keep an eye open for a second hand nirvana , and try to beat the rush ! Heather

I'm no astro photographer, but II bought one for my 3300 through amazon years ago , for long exposure photography in daylight you really need one , do check the model though, another ad. suggests the one I got works for D50, D70, D70s, D80, D90, D300s, D610, D3100, D3200, D3300, D5000, D5100, D5500, D7000, D7100 ... Heather

That's what worries me ,if I find I love the 16mm, it will mean I'll be wanting the 7mm . And quite possibly the 4mm too ... Heather

Thank you, I'm pleased to hear that , I bought a 16mm from FLO a fortnight ago ! Naturally, since it arrived the weather had been dreadful, and I've only managed the briefest use of it between the clouds. I just haven't time to really assess it properly, but the 'big window' effect compared with my BSTs at 60 degrees was striking. Heather

Have you seen these ? https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/ovl-nirvana-es-uwa-82-ultrawide-eyepieces.html No 20mm, as they are too wide at 82 degrees to have that long a focal length, but there's a 16mm and 7mm Heather

Yep, knowing and considering how small folk behave makes a difference . This 9 year old is going to need to operate the setup herself,. I own, use and enjoy both a tabletop dob (heritage 150) and an st80 (orion) , and if I was going to loan a 'scope out to be used by a child with a visually impaired adult standing by but unable to collimate, focus or steer the telescope for her, I'd simply never even think of offering the dob. , it would cause nothing but frustration. Heather

That's an interesting conundrum you've given us ! I'm in agreement with much of what has been said so far. Particularly to check for clubs or observatories(maybe museums or university departments) nearby which may have meetings . A quick search found a half dozen https://www.go-astronomy.com/astro-clubs-state.php?State=AL there are probably more. I've heard that various areas of the US have schemes where local astronomy groups provide small telescopes to libraries, who loan them out for free for 2 weeks, worth checking if there is such a scheme local to you. A computerized set up , a reliable one, would be expensive , complex to set up , and frustrating for all concerned. I'd say go for a small telescope your daughter can handle, which has a focal length of no more than 750mm . That will have a wide enough field to not be incredibly difficult to aim . Don't worry about having to buy expensive eyepieces, if you want to supplement whatever comes with the 'scope (if it is new) or buy some (if it is second hand and you don't get any included,) then basic plossls are not expensive and do the job . Many beginner telescopes come with a red dot finder (RDF), a simple aiming device which needs to be adjusted to line up with the telescope , but once that is done (and if you are careful not to knock it, the alignment holds ,so won't need doing again for a while), you simply turn it on, line up the red dot it gives you with something visible , look through the telescope (with a low power eyepiece in it ) centre the object, then swap to a higher power eyepiece if you want to increase the magnification. I've taught 8, 9 and 10 year olds for years, and I reckon most could operate an RDF on visible targets as long as the initial 'lining it up with the 'scope' step was done for them. The Moon is pretty obvious,, so she can use an RDF to point a telescope at it . You will need a family member, friend , neighbour or someone to get the RDF lined up for you in the daytime first , but after that I believe she would manage with the Moon. Finding other targets is going to be more challenging, but I'm sure you can find a way around it. I just asked my 'phone 'OK google, audio sky tours ' and it returned some apps, and this link for a monthly podcast , which I've just checked out, and rather like. Judging from this month's edition I think it is clear and straightforward enough for you and your daughter to share under the stars https://skyandtelescope.org/observing/astronomy-podcasts/ By the way,when they talk about 'the width of a fist' as 10 degrees in the podcast, it is anyone's fist , as a big adult hand is on the end of a long adult arm, a short child's arm has small fist at the end, so an outstretched arm's fist across the knuckles will be around 10 degrees just like an adult one . As far as telescope type is concerned, I would usually agree the best choice would be a table top dobsonian like this https://www.highpointscientific.com/sky-watcher-heritage-130-tabletop-dobsonian-s11705 except not in your case ! First, aiming the 'scope is less intuitive for a 9 year old than a refractor would be, because the image in it is upside down and left/right reversed, and you look in the side of the top of the tube, so the whole thing takes some getting used to. Ssecond , something I usually reassure folk is not a big problem , collimation, might actually be a problem in your situation ! Collimation is adjusting the tilt of a reflecting telescope's mirrors by tiny amounts to give the best views, and it's not something a visually impaired person would find easy, or that I'd expect a 9 year old to manage. Unless you have another adult who would be happy to check, and when needed, collimate a reflector , I'd count that type of telescope out. So, I'd suggest you go for a small, light refractor telescope on an alt az mount which your daughter can handle easily, something like one of these: https://www.highpointscientific.com/telescopes/refracting-telescopes/explore-scientific-firstlight-ar80-white-tube-refractor-w-twilight-nano-mount-fl-ar80640tn https://www.highpointscientific.com/telescopes/refracting-telescopes/celestron-astromaster-80az-short-refractor-telescope-21082 https://www.highpointscientific.com/telescopes/refracting-telescopes/meade-infinity-80-mm-altazimuth-refractor-telescope-209004 I have no knowledge of that specific retailer , that was just what came up first in my search. Commonly referred to as an ST80 (short tube 80mm aperture) , one of those would be a great introductory instrument, not require much maintenance, and can show your daughter a great deal. The magnification will not be enormous, so planets will appear small and features on them will be limited, but she should see some banding on Jupiter and the Galilean moons around it, and the rings of Saturn. The Moon will be impressive too. Here's a link to Ed Ting's you tube review of the ST80, part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdPaKtK_7Zk and part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfuT5kUjpXU This book about practical astronomy for children seems to get good reviews https://www.amazon.com/50-Things-See-Telescope-Constellation/dp/0999034650/ref=pd_sbs_36/137-6076597-1329930?pd_rd_w=6v03d&pf_rd_p=3676f086-9496-4fd7-8490-77cf7f43f846&pf_rd_r=RN11FV2YC8K30K3H2ZQ9&pd_rd_r=1dea352c-22bb-4307-89d4-442100dc302d&pd_rd_wg=hmJp1&pd_rd_i=0999034650&psc=1 Hope that helps , Heather

This maybe ? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Camera-DSLR-Hot-Shoe-to-Finder-Red-Dot-Shoe-Adapter/283165189806?hash=item41edf5e6ae:g:XRUAAOSwmT1cAVMD I'm sure there are other options, I just happened to bookmark that when someone posted the link recently , Heather

Well I learn something every day 🙂

and are key phrases to my mind. OP is asking for something compact, light, portable and easily set up, as well as within a budget of around £350 . Observing through an open window isn't going to give you the greatest views, but I have a good friend who has R.A. and suffers badly in cold weather who does exactly that, poking a refractor out of a south facing bedroom window in winter ! Not optimal, but some observing is better than no observing. Not sure you'd find it easy to use a go to mount or take photos from in there though. Heather

Glad I could help . If it is what you need, and it turns out FLO don't have the relevant bit in stock, but TS in Germany do, I can vouch for their (stereotypical) efficiency, I bought an AZ6 mount from TS last month. Anything which (like that) costs under £135 gets no UK customs added import VAT ,import duty, or handling fee, you just pay their top of page price and delivery charge. Heather

There's a similar question(I think ) here with an answer which might help :

Ah, the infinite range of accessories and upgrades 🙂 ! I'd only buy an ND/Moon filter if the reduced aperture cap trick fails you , no point in wasting £s . The only thing I've bought that sees no use is a Barlow ( a skywatcher one) I just don't like using it. I think the thing to do is use your 'scope for a while, see what irritates you most, and sort those things as you come across them . If you can't find any sheets of craft foam locally to make a shroud for the open part of the heritage, do a search on here, I've given links a few times to an online vendor I used to get black 3mm closed cell for about £11 for a 1m x1m sheet, which is enough to leave plenty to make a dew shield and for other projects too. Heather

Links as promised : Lots of pictures of the 102 mak on various mounts and other information http://www.waloszek.de/astro_sw_mak102_e.php A video comparing a 127mm and a 90mm mak ... yes , I know I've suggested you think about the 102 mak , which lies between these two, but the video will give you an idea of the size of the things, and the sort of photos you might be able to get. His channel has many interesting videos, with plenty of information on photographic use https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxIeAAEpnSk He also unboxes. reviews and uses a 102mak in a series of videos including this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PprvqT9uM3g but I don't know if that model was simply rebadged as the skymax 102 or not . Interesting to see the images from it though, and that might lead you to this often quoted page on here : https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/ I've answered so far with suggestions based on using your DSLR on bright objects, essentially thinking of long focal length, low chromatic aberration (CA) instruments as if they were camera lenses. However, if you want to scan round the sky visually , and can put photography to one side , at least to start off with, and want to see deep sky objects for yourself, a shorter focal length refractor might be worth starting with. It would have C.A. , but that may not be intrusive to you on stars, clusters and nebulae. Ed Ting suggests an ST80 (short tube 80) , aperture 80mm, typically 400mm focal length so f5 . It doesn't sound that spectacular compared with a camera telephoto lens, but you are getting an 80mm lens at the front to collect photons. First of two videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdPaKtK_7Zk A whole kit with an ST80 , mount and tripod https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-80-az3.html Grahan (Jenhams astro again) has a video showing how an ST80 can be used for photography https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWSvIkfTx8k and what sort of results to expect. If you have a decent tripod already, an ST80 and an az gti might be within your budget, and both are sufficiently popular that you regularly see them for sale second hand on the buy/swap section here ... not that you see them for very long, if decently priced they get snapped up fast . Heather

Heritage 150s are great 🙂 First thing I ever saw in mine was Saturn, I doubt I'll ever forget seeing that tiny bauble hanging in the sky . Have you had a chance to look at the Moon with it yet ? I found the view just too bright, and had to get a moon filter to make it bearable, otherwise I was just knocked back from the eyepiece by the dazzle ! The Moon filter is just sunglasses for a 'scope, I don't need it for my 102 mm or 127mm 'scopes, but essential on the 150mm . Some people don't find they need one at all . Moon filters can be bought quite cheaply, around £10 should get you a basic one, and if you need it for the Moon, you can try it on Jupiter to cut some glare. FLO have several choices : https://www.firstlightoptics.com/moon-neutral-density-filters.html I'm not keen on Moon filters which impart a green tinge to the view, (which is what I bought, a celestron version), I'd much prefer a straight ND (neutral density) , and for use in the 150 for the Moon would go for the 0.9 version out of the 3 offered densities on that page if I was buying again . A pair of polarising filters (one of which rotates) will give an infinite range between cutting a little light, and cutting all of it, but they are a pain to use in a dob/reflector, as you have to put both on the bottom of the eyepiece and keep taking it out to rotate one filter and change the effect. (Polarisers do work well where a rerfractor or mak has the facility to put one half of the pair in the diagonal and one on the eyepiece, then turn the eyepiece though) There is a free alternative method of cutting down the dazzle though ...have you noticed the little removable cap within the main tube cap ? Try using that to reduce the aperture ! Seems a bit barmy to buy a big aperture 'scope and reduce it to a tiny aperture 'scope, but it can't hurt to give it a try , I've not got round to trying it (now I have other 'scopes, I don't tend to use the dob for Moon and Jupiter/Saturn/Mars) so please report back ! Heather

Welcome (and by the way, you might want to introduce yourself on the 'welcome' thread too ) I've a few observations and questions too ! Questions first : do you already have a reasonably sturdy photographic tripod with a removable head which could be put into service for a small 'scope too ? It might be possible to use it and concentrate your expenditure on the other parts of the setup. I guess you are thinking of observing from a seated position ? If so, that's actually an advantage a tripod not extended to the max is steadier. Of the 3 main types of telescope you might consider, reflectors, (i.e. newtonians including those with dobsonian mounts) refractors (with lenses like a photo lens) and maksutovs (like the once popular catadioptric photo lenses, a clever compact mirror arrangement) , I think you physically would have problems with a reflector , too bulky, too awkward to look through . So I'd cross that whole species off the list. You are left with refractors and maks . The former are reassuringly telescope-y looking but the cheap ones (achromats) suffer from chromatic aberration, which makes a coloured fringe around bright targets, especially if you use high magnification. You can reduce this by buying a refractor with a really long tube, but the longer the tube, the greater the arc the eyepiece will make as you pivot the instrument to view different parts of the sky, which would involve you moving around a lot. Apochromatic refractors have lenses which deal with the chromatic aberration, but they are comparatively expensive. Maks have no chromatic aberration, as they use mirrors not lenses. They do cunning origami on the light path, so while a 1500mm focal length refractor would have to be 1500mm long , my 1500mm mak is 35cm long. That means that the eyepiece only describes a small arc, and you don't need to shift a seat so much , or stand up/sit down to keep your eye to it. So yes, I'd agree with the 102 maksutov idea, it will weigh under 3kg , so not require a big heavy mount and tripod, and be compact , work very much like a camera lens if you want it to (albeit with no variable aperture or autofocus) . The disadvantages of a mak (I have a 127, which I'd say is a bit too big for you to easily handle, as well as too expensive for your budget) are a small field of view , the need to give it half an hour or so to cool outside so air currents inside the tube don't wreck your views, and their propensity to attract dew . Oh, and the focusing can be fiddly I'm not acquainted with go to mounts at all , never bought one, never used one, but as a (non-astro) photographer who might just dabble in widefield landscape astro one day I've read up on them, and skywatcher az gti, which is small, portable and can be used with any small telescope, or with a camera and lens looks like a good one to consider . It has what skywatcher call 'freedom find' so you can swing the telescope by hand as and when you wish. As it is so versatile and can be bought as a stand alone item I'd suggest it would be a better buy than an all-in-one setup , especially if you have a decent tripod already. The az gti would be a considerable % of your available cash if you bought one new, but second hand might be a solution. Some pages to look at : first, what I'd suggest if you want to push your budget and get it all as a bundle : https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/sky-watcher-skymax-102-az-gti.html Second, if you are happy to buy a non go-to right now, and add a go-to when funds allow https://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/sky-watcher-skymax-102s-az-pronto.html I'll find a few rather good links I found (when I was researching before I bought mine) to vid.s of the maks and other helpful info. Heather

Hmm, I spotted just 2, I was out from midnight (when alternate street lights are switched off) to 2.15 am when the bank of cloud invaded. Wasn't specifically looking for them though, it was the first decently long clear dark sky spell I'd had for ages (since the 27th of July to be exact) . Heather

I agree, the 'Really Useful' make of clip top boxes are pretty good, I've not used one for a telescope but have several for other purposes. The manufacturer's site has a handy table showing the dimensions of the range , and actually shows internal as well as external measurements https://www.reallyusefulproducts.co.uk/uk/html/boxdetails.php Heather

Stuart, I reckoned @tripleped was at cross-purposes,and thought you were concerned with the app, when you were actually talking about the webpage . I've never had a problem at all with the web version, I use firefox browser and various add ons which make my security settings including cookies quite high, and when I exit firefox, all cookies are erased automatically , so a cookie based setup would be no use for me . ! I have a bookmark to the clear outside page for my location in the tool bar at the top of my browser , right next to one for the BBC Weather for my location and a Met. office one 🙂 Heather

There's an app (which insists on the wrong location for me , but then my android 'phone is old,and only slightly smart ) but there is also a website , which works fine. https://clearoutside.com/forecast/50.7/-3.52 The website defaults to Devon too, use the 'look up address/town/postcode' box top left to find your location, then once you are seeing your own area forecast displayed, make a bookmark or favourite, or whatever your browser calls a saved web address . So when you click on that favourite/bookmark it will take you back to the page for your chosen location. That's how I use it on my 'phone as well as my laptop , now the app stopped behaving properly. Heather

That is an excellent idea, but I've a suggestion (already!) for something about 10% of the population would find useful .... I an not left handed myself, but know (from teaching children) that a lot of things are arranged in a way which makes lefties lives awkward, so if it's a relatively easy re-formatting job you could offer an alternative version with left page blank I think those folk would appreciate it 🙂 Heather

Is it perhaps more a matter of angle of incidence than relative speed ? Rather than bugs on the windscreen, I was thinking of using the analogy of walking into heavy rain in a high wind : walk straight into the wind direction and your face gets hit by more drops and the rain seems subjectively stronger. That makes sense to me, but may not be a good analogy at all ! Heather