Stu

Exactly!!! Sara, you bought the ED120 for Deep sky AP I believe. I doubt anyone would recommend it as being ideal for that, that's just the point!

We will have to agree to disagree about this one, with no hard feelings of course There is just so much history that personally I find it impossible to separate the review from past conversations and requests. I think the comments about forum hype are the hardest to swallow. The scope was recommended for a purpose, no one hyped it for DSO use, in fact no one hyped it at all.

Mike, you are dead right. Had Jules come back to the forum time and again seeking advice on a deep sky scope I would have no issues. The fact is he has wanted to downsize to a single scope, and the specific requests were around lunar observing and imaging, with perhaps some doubles and planetary thrown in. Cool down time needed to be short, mounting requirements reasonable and the focal length not too short and not too long. In addition, multiple different scope types and sizes have been ruled out, narrowing the potential scopes which might be suitable. The review focused far more words on the scope's DSO capabilities under light polluted skies than on its intended targets. Jules has a long standing love of TAL refractors, 100R in particular I believe. I don't think DSO performance was ever high up on the list of requirements for the TAL. It would have been interesting to see some comment on the comparative optical quality and resolution between the two scopes, what targets on the moon looked like for instance. So, in my personal opinion the review was not balanced. That is the reason I'm banging on about this.

Just so I'm clear, is this the effusive bit?

I've just deleted my response as it would not help the thread. I'll back out of this now as the whole thing is annoying me too much, life is too short. It's a great scope, will do exactly what Jules wants it to do, but I suspect the best thing is for him to sell it and buy something else, although I'm not totally sure what that would be.

But Paul, surely to forget to mention any of its strengths and how it performs in the task you bought it for is a little absent minded perhaps?

Of all the things I imagined when I read the review, Jules grinning was not one of them......

No issues with the reply Jules. The problem is that there is no need to lie about its qualities, it is a fantastic scope which many experienced members enjoy for its lovely optics. I struggle with the fact that rather than focusing in your review on your first love which is lunar observing and imaging, and what you largely bought the scope for, you have instead chosen to highlight the fact that a 4.7" scope is not great on DSOs under light polluted skies. Give us a review of a good lunar session and some images, that's what you bought it for. If you want DSOs, get a dob and go to a dark site!!

I bet that's a great setup to use. I had an SS2k PC for a while and thought it was as good if not better than any of the modern controllers I have used.

Jules, your posts are largely about how poor the weather and light pollution is rather than anything else, so I'm not surprised at John's comments. You have a long time interest in Lunar imaging and observing, and have two scopes which are ideal for this. It is an area of astro which is largely unaffected by light pollution so you should be free to enjoy it. I'm not sure why suddenly DSO observing has become a requirement, and a reason to criticise the 120ED? Your expressed desire was to get to a one scope solution because you were tired of having multiple scopes around the house which took up valuable storage space without being used. You now have about the only scope which fits the bill but it doesn't seem to fill you with joy. I loved my wobbly 16" Sumerian ( ) but knew that I would not use it frequently enough to do it justice. It gave me (amongst others) four fabulous nights at SGL10 where I saw more galaxies than I had in the previous 15 years, then not so long after I sold it for what I paid for it. Nothing wrong with the scope as far as I'm concerned. I probably bore people with my Tak talk. I could be thinking "but a 120ED would give me better resolution, am I missing out?" What I actually know is that it is the scope I have used most in my life, and is super versatile in terms of solar and astro observing, so get on and enjoy it. I won't apologise for saying the above, whilst I know it may appear a little on the 'tough' side, I would just love to see you have a scope that makes you happy and allows you to crack on and observe/image in an enjoyable fashion.

Jules, you frequently post short, negative comments about the 120 which give the impression you are not happy with it. The skies have been pretty rubbish lately for all of us, it is a matter of making the most of what opportunities there are. Most of the time my Tak does not perform as well as it is capable of, and from my back garden I can see comparatively little even with a C925. I focus on what I can see, rather than what I can't.

Very well said John.

The 120ED was recommended highly Jules largely because you had been hunting around for ages for a Lunar imaging and visual, trying multiple scopes, none of which you liked for various reasons. The 120 is an excellent ED doublet, visually apochromatic and a great all rounder scope. John seems to find plenty to look at with his, but no scope is going to beat light pollution, so get it to a dark site and it will perform very nicely on deep sky objects. If you want more aperture, buy a dob. I do wonder whether you should just sell it and buy something else as it appears you are not particularly happy with the purchase. The 102mm Mak seems to bring you more pleasure currently and that's what it is all about really.

I've not had any problems with bendy bolts, I don't believe the GP suffers in the same way. They are not made any more, but the motors and upgrade kits from EQ5s fit the Vixen GP so there is a fair amount of upgardeability if needed. There is a GP2 version in white which is very similar I think, not totally sure if it is upgraded or not. I fitted an iOptron GotoNova to my GP which worked very well, but I realized that I only use this mount for planetary and lunar observing so reverted to simple MT1 motors which give me tracking plus the ability to pan around the lunar or solar surface which is all I need. They are not made any more, but decent ones do come up for sale used on AstroBuySell every now and then.

Funny . I was looking for one for a while but gave up after a few failed attempts. My GP actually suits me fine, enough load capacity (7kg) but nice, light and easy to setup. It has dual drives, no Goto but that's fine by me.

Have you considered an old Vixen GP or GP-DX mount? They have beautiful engineering and can be found used for anywhere upwards of £150. Basically the GP is what Synta copied for the EQ5 and the GP-DX is a higher capacity version, 10kg ish I think.

I do like those Vixens Chris, lightweight with nice sharp Optics.

Some info here: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/513897-vixen-advanced-polaris-anyone-have-one-yet/

I'm not totally surprised Tim, I don't recall seeing anyone discussing this mount in the forum before. It looks very nice but very expensive vs other alternatives out there.

Get yourself back to the dob threads........

FS128Rules?

I did know that Steve, was being silly, sorry

Knowing a bit about ex's, that sounds dangerous!!! PS for the grammar kings and queens out there, I am uncomfortable with the apostrophe but didn't know what else to do!

Agreed Paul! I would go really obvious and have a session on Jupiter first I reckon!

Brilliant stuff Dave. I'm really pleased you have managed to go through with this purchase! I can see you having many, many happy nights together . Can't wait for your first light report.