DaveL59

1 hour ago, SthBohemia said:

I am sure Dave59 will chip in sooner or later with good advice 🙂

Cheers 'A Bruce' 🙂 

Not in this thread old chap, no experience of Tak other than what I've read here extolling their virtues. There's plenty like Stu and others who've had several in the range that can offer way better advice than I, so I'll sit in the back and take notes in case I ever get close to obtaining one 🙂 

As Ian has said, if you set the OTA so it points downward before removal that'll prevent more falling onto the primary, before reassembly tho I'd run a vacuum cleaner over the DIY shroud and velcro fixings to get as much loose fibre off, in fact I'd have done that before first fitting but too late to suggest that now, one for the next time perhaps. I do the same when flocking too as there's always some loose stuff that'll find its way where you don't want it to go. No need for max-power, low would be fine and using one of those attachments with a brush at the end will prevent getting the shield/flock sucked in and crinkled up.

On 09/08/2022 at 11:34, Swoop1 said:

I regularly went where people didn't want me, armed with a bit of paper that said I could be there.

Never used dark sky quality as a grounds for a search warrant though.....

I once went where they didn't want me to be too tho no bits of paper. I blame the mini-cab driver that got himself lost, crossed the M4 and drove us into an army base. Of course we were then stopped a few hundred yards in by several folks in green and carrying guns! What a fun start to the day and getting to the IT course I was suppose to be at, tho the tale did amuse the other students and instructors greatly 🙄

Agreed @Astro_Dad my viewpoint has subjective elements too, in part the ease of use of the StarSense kit as you also know having the dob version. Add in the low cost of the frac that can be quite easily improved from its wobbly nature it fit the budget as well as giving an easier intro to a hobby that might/not take longer term. Also then still useful after upgrading to bigger/better as one to take on trips etc being light and quite compact. Either way its someone else's choice to make once the wide amount of advice and suggestions have been digested and hopefully a new family group added to the future of amateur astronomy 🙂 

46 minutes ago, SthBohemia said:

Not bad eh @Dave59, you started this thread 24 hrs ago- 95 replies and over 1k views! Very well done...

What's the next pandoras box you intend to open? "Tell us what you think of your current mounts (I might get very self opinionated ova dem apples)", "Meade VS Celestron", "Present your backyard", "Are Questars and Astro Physics scopes worth the loot" or maybe go BIG time and a lovely thread, "Is Imaging anything more than glorified use of Photoshop".... 🙂 

no plans to start another controversial thread like I knew this would be. Thankfully we steered clear of the landmines that might have locked it tho 🙂 I thought it was useful to see why things were the way they were and hopefully find a middle ground when responding to the "what should I buy" type questions. Maybe I was misjudging some who'd replied and they did consider more than just the mahoosive dob before suggesting same, but time will tell if balance changes, not much a couple folks can do about it but we'll see...

There is of course a validity to lots of aperture, just isn't always appropriate to someone else's circumstances or needs is all I wanted to get across. If money was no object something like the Unistellar eVscope at nearly 4K might have been perfect, being compact, simple setup and EEVA so you can see  and share hubble like views of the faint smudgy stuff and wow the kids, but that's not in many people's budget, even used things like that come in at 2K or so. Too small for the kitties to curl up inside the OTA tho 😉 

can't help either Ash and sorry to hear about your difficulties. 

While a great idea if EEVA users could share, allowing someone outside to connect into your network may not be something others would want to do for security reasons, tho perhaps if they could stream to a web page that is published that you could see then that'd work. Of course you're then limited to what they're looking at and if they're even looking but its something and a lot better than nothing.

Another option tho expensive might be one of those all-in-one little units that you pop outside and connect to via a tablet (or PC maybe) and does the whole capture thing for you remotely. Would mean clear skies and popping out to set up and then bring in but it may work being very short duration exposure to the elements. I'm thinking something like the Stellina or the UniStellar eVscope, sorry but they're pretty pricey tho.

16 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

"Did you mean all but one was bought used there Steve?"

Whoops, yes.  Thanks Dave, I'll correct it.

kinda figured as I remember us all leaping in and buying up all the LT70 starsense scopes back in the covid lockdown period 😉 

It's the only one I've bought new too, same reason.

20 minutes ago, Gem85 said:

I have a south facing garden and it looks out to a very large field! I must admit I have a very good view of the night sky from my garden! 

Now am envious for sure. I have a dirty great Oak tree in my direct south from my very small garden so SSE-W is totally lost to me 😢 

Kidding aside tho, sounds fantastic for getting great views regardless the scope you end up getting 👍

1 hour ago, Second Time Around said:

 

As for new vs used, all but one of my 4 scopes I bought new, and that was only because I wanted a Starsense Explorer to port to all my scopes.

This meant I saved an awful lot, but I was able to do so only because of what I had learnt here on Stargazers Lounge and Cloudy Nights.

Did you mean all but one was bought used there Steve?

For me the approach was different in terms of what I have and why, but I didn't enter the hobby until a couple years back and had specific equipment in mind. Having spend time rebuilding binos I got interested again and after researching around decided I wanted a TAL, either TAL-1 reflector or better a TAL100 refractor. That was based on good write-ups but of course those didn't come up first. so  settled on a SW130 as it was reasonably local and a good price and to be fair it gives good views once it settles down after touching anything.

Then a baby TAL came up not too far, the TAL-M in original wood case too but tatty looking from paint scrapes over years of family use. It might be a small 80mm mirror but it gives great views but you are limited to the TAL eyepieces, thankfully good. Missing the 25mm and the eyepiece extension tube, that's an  issue to watch for when buying used, what's missing and can you get one now. Still, I used this a lot and the bigger SW130 slowly shifted to the back of the conservatory. Mainly it is compact, easy to lift outside fully assembled and at the end walk it back in again, no messing about. Meantime kept an eye out for the ones I'd originally wanted as this baby TAL hooked me on the solid build and longevity. So then the big frac, a TAL100RS in Coventry so a long round trip but well worthwhile. Now I'd have stopped there but a TAL-1 came up local with the russian size eyepieces so went and got that just for the 25mm eyepiece, crazy boy! That scope has not been adapted to the regular 1.25-inch eyepieces too and I much prefer it to the SW130 regardless a slightly smaller mirror, its just more stable. I did eventually strip the TAL-M down and refurb it so it looks almost new now too. The SW130 barely sees the light nowadays tho, sadly, too much kit between it and the door being one reason lol.

For what its worth tho I prefer the Frac views, even the cheap LT70 is actually pretty good and while that's here its the grab & go for quick sessions as its very light and easy. Is why I'd happily recommend it (or the 80 version) for the starsense and ease of use at low entry cost. As a newb myself back then, finding stuff that wasn't obvious was a drag esp when tired eyes after a long workday were struggling, so I quickly dropped to moon and planets. Now having bought several scope (and made a little TAL collection 🙄) I wasn't going to give up completely as the planets are fun to look at, but I might have if Starsense hadn't come along. As several others have said, its a game changer esp for those new to this lark. Much easier to set up quickly and use compared to the SynScan GoTo and no power requirements to drive it so no hidden costs once you have the scope in your mitts, well other than usual  eyepieces, diagonal, barlow.... 😉 

45 minutes ago, Chaz2b said:

Another thing to note, is that on cheap ( build not cost) binoculars the prisms can be held in place with only glue, constant battles with hard objects when travelling can losen the contact and problems really appear!

 I have also taken binos apart, more for my curiosity, but learnt a lot about their construction. I’ve also taken apart a pair of binoviewers, actually easy, learnt about their construction and enjoyed the experience. 
Some always advocate not to touch them if you have no experience, so how are you going to learn? 
If they are that cheap then it will be at worst a very inexpensive lesson.

chaz

There's a certain degree of truth in that and in my case like you, learned by doing and buying cheap and fixing up. But those bressers retailed new for around £15, £20 tops IIRC so are they really worth spending £10 on when they're out of whack? There's better quality ones out there like older Swift models after all.

Another reason I didn't suggest it was easy (is it, to do it right?) is that I could easily see the outcome in picture C in WJC's post, some of the ones I've got hold of cheap were just exactly like that. Sure they seemed aligned when you look, images merge ok etc, but what you see is offset from what you aimed at. For me if looking at a bino that's misaligned generally it'd need to be one that I wanted for the collection or have some reasonable worth/rarity, like the Nikon Sportster EX 8x25 that I got also for a tenner and were out of alignment. A bog standard low-end porro pair I'd pass and look for something better. In my case I picked up a mint pair of Minolta Classic sport 10x50 WP for £22 a couple years back which I think were much more worthwhile and no work needed on those at all.

Unless there's an urgent rush to get something/anything then OK, but if prepared to wait and search, you can find the pearls scattered in amongst the dross. Sorry if OP feels he missed out because I suggested it wasn't worth it but that's the reason behind my thoughts. 

well it was an attempt to steer vaguely back to the top of what to recommend, just figured we'd probably hit a natural end to the way it started but then comments about going to a proper scope show and new not used got me to thinking a different "why?"

We've had several arrive here asking for help on something they picked up off cheap online or department store sources and easy to see why they struggle with those. But occasionally someone asks regarding a used item on the bay or elsewhere, sometimes as is cheap or other reason. Some of those are very much not worthwhile of course but sometimes you think "drat how had I not seen that one!". Either way help is forthcoming from the crew on here as we're a nice bunch, really 🙂 

That TAL-1 I popped into the original thread for example, now its a lot more than I paid for my non-motorised one but knowing how solid they are and the mirrors are good quality, to me worth a look. It'll be way better than a lower end SW or similar on EQ2 type mounts for example. OK its limited maybe if it has the older 32mm focuser but even then very usable, tho this one sounded like it took 1.25-inch. Could be wrong, again ask and do your own background research as you've also said and if poss, go look at it and chat with the seller as often they're quite helpful. But the way these are made, very simple and easy to repaint etc should you need/want to etc.

thanks @SthBohemia but there's one thing I did forget to ask @Gem85 and that was what's the aspect of the garden where they want to view from?

Ideally faces south-ish with view to E and thu S toward the west. That'd give the moon and planets best as they rise and track across the sky. Fences and tall border bushes/trees can be a nuisance but if not too tall you can position further away to get a slightly lower view. With kids then the E-S region could be very useful as they won't have to be staying up too late 😉

Downside would be a north facing garden with the house blocking the southerly view. That's how I came across my SW130 as the couple that had it only had a north view so the hobby they were interested faded quickly and the scope just got parked in a back room. Now of course you may be able to use the front garden to get around that but street lights play havoc then, this couple didn't have much frontage tho so not an option for them. 

Of course you can make a trip to go somewhere with better aspect, harder with a clutch of kids maybe, but possible if the gear will all fit in the car along with everyone/thing else. I've yet to bother doing that myself, laziness a little but time when needing to do other things too. Besides, is much simpler at home, easy access to hot/cold drinks, the loo etc 😄 

I resisted the temptation to post pics of mine but they can be found elsewhere anyways 🙂

So back on topic then...

Think we've had a lot of debate on the dob vs other stuff side, but what about new vs used?

Not sure but I think newbs don't get access to the for sale section and even so they'd have the same issue to understand what's being offered and it it'd suit their needs. Also the fact that used means no come-back for problems and no support to guide them over the initial bumps in the road to frustration. But then there's a lot of helpful folks here in the forum who've often given valuable guidance on how to set up, collimate etc. The risk of course is we suggest one and it turns out to be a bit of a dud, esp as we likely can't/haven't gone and checked it out personally. So far tho I've found that each scope I've bought and collected from the seller has been fine and the seller often extremely helpful in showing how it sets up etc. Obviously tho they are star gazers themselves and want you to be confident that you bought something good and will be able to enjoy using it. Perhaps I've just been lucky?

Just seems to me that someone comes along, small budget and the starter options are pretty limited, yet out in the web or even on here there's a pretty decent bit of kit that might be significantly better for them at less or same price. I know a couple of us have popped those up into threads occasionally but what do folks think? (not trying to do FLO or anyone out of a sale here, before anyone thinks that, nor am I gonna try sell anything in this thread 🙂 ) 

PS - Almost all of my gear is used purchases, but I'll admit that being a tinkerer and having fiddled with binos and camera lenses I guess I was more prepared to take a risk after assessing, even buying something that needed some refurb tho was optically fine, just tatty paint. Inexperienced folks likely should be more cautious but then again how many buy a used car but aren't mechanics?

for someone new or with little experience with optical gear then yeah going to a specialist can help in terms of good advice and support but then again there's some good value kit available used at prices that new junk is offered at, just need to know how to filter good from bad. Good points you raised there tho esp the amount you can lift late at night when you're cold. For sure my gear feels heavier and when its cold more slippery too so extra care needed when bringing it all back inside.

awww so cute, one of mine looks so similar the other is jet black

you'll probably be surprised how little it shows up if at all tho because you know its there you'll look for it. Same with cleaning mirrors/lenses etc 🙂 

Things sometimes shake themselves loose over time and use and mysteriously appear. Not sure re the eyecup threads as I don't have those ones but is possible that allowed a gap for something to creep in. Lenses are usually held in place with thin rings that do bear onto the glass at the edge, so its possible that's how that top lens is held in place. But if so the others under it would be too, removing that ring  and up-ending the lens would risk a tumble of glass that you'd then have to figure out the order to refit so take care. You wouldn't be the first to ask how it all goes back together 😉 

6 minutes ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

I suppose I could lie down on the lawn and look directly up lol.

if I did that I'd likely fall asleep till the cats or other wildlife woke me 😄 

What Louis said. Does it affect the view at all?

If not ignore until you decide you need to open it up further to clean which might be never. Not impossible that it got there during manufacture or its not airtight and found its way in. What eyepiece is it?

Bino's are fine but craning your neck when looking high gets to be a chore esp in winter and for us who are age disadvantaged. A reclining chair/lounger does help there tho but one-handed probably would quicker find a tired arm and shakey views, 8x or less being more manageable for steady viewing. I use mine on a monopod more than tripod for the easier flexibility at least till my neck complains 🙂 

50 minutes ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

I don't think we'll ever be able to stop, Dave. lol

so true, thankfully fiddling about with reflecting film to try improve the temps in the conservatory had distracted me enough to miss the chance to snipe on a pair of Swift Osprey 7.5x44 bins that I had on watch. And wouldn't you know it £24, oh well another bargain missed 😄 

4 minutes ago, iapa said:

Don't know about the Esprit, but the Equinox threaded into the tube with no reinforcement.

Reluctant to start taking things apart just now - only started using this last week o so

ouch that sounds like a weak way to affix the foot considering it'll be carrying the scope and anything else bolted onto it 😞 Would definitely limit what load it could carry. Sounds like tube rings would be the way to go if simply for ease of fixing. Hopefully no bits or debris are now rattling about inside.

Is there no reinforcement plate inside the OTA to spread the load once the foot is bolted up, or does it just bolt into a couple captive nuts?

One other option might be to get a piece of steel strip  of the required length, say 2-3mm thick, ideally with a curve to match the OTA and then drill/tap it to take the bolts and simply refit the foot that way.

1 minute ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

I may have a problem ...

me too, a small collection for fun quickly filled a cabinet tho I have managed to stop, mostly lol

6 minutes ago, SthBohemia said:

I wanna know why @Zeta Reticulan has so many telescopes, let alone the selection of EP's, barlows, diagonals, mounts and kitchen sinks! Then we have @Dave59 with a few hundred sets of binoculars 🙂 

😞  I must be the poor orphan of SGL ! Gonna go and sulk inna da 'orphans hovel....

ahh I bought all mine dirt cheap off the wonderful bay-of-E and DIY repaired/adjusted, same with many camera lenses. Some nice bargains can be had if you look for "for parts/not working" and with some understanding of how you might fix them are prepared to take a risk, like that big Tamron 150-600 lens I bought the other week 🙂 

Besides, they gave me something to do while I was between jobs too, kept my mind alive and all that...