stash_old

OK you have heard the good stuff "London side up" as my dear old mother would say. Now the other side.

1. The device drivers,on the whole, are not as "mature" on Indi as they are on Windows so perhaps find out "what Astro Kit works" first AND how well.

2. Using non mainstream Linux systems or boards can lead to many problems especially if you just want "plug and go" set up. Again join and read the Indi Forum.

3. Its not just a case of "install and forget software" as ,for the most part, Windows is.

4.  RPI is not powerful enough for CCD high frame rates,as stated above, but you can easily over come that and the RPI runs mount control,Filter,Focusing with ease. That's how Indi works.

So find out all the info and do test set ups to learn the Indi way.

Having said that there are a great many plus's for Indi - Flexibility,O/S independence and "all in one" approach (EKOS is akin to SGP IMO) probably are the best parts,IMHO/experience of Indi. Ascom and Windows lacks the first two points (they don't run natively on any other O/S)

So gone on try Indi out - you may like it! ?

5 hours ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

quickly runs out of resources & is missing USB 3 (needed for 1600 MM) and slower network

Totally agreed on CCD /USB3 use but RPI3 is fine for Mount Control,Focuser Control, DSLR and Filter wheels as none are very taxing. Plus RPI3 could do with ,at least, inbuilt EMMC.

The Networking while not the fastest ,as it shares the USB BUS, is adequate and doesn't seem to cause any problems (IMHO and experience). Even the RPI Zero(W) runs the DSLR well (as good as my 64bit Up Squared with its USB3/2 ,EMMC storage and  4GB memory).  

Plus working 5ghz wireless networking and 802.11 AC(450mb-1300mb) ,for those who want fast wireless,  is almost non existent on Linux and at best needs compiling as no working drivers exist(or very very limited) out of the box and very little mainstream support exists at the moment. Although this is not an Indi  stopper.

Plus you can easily run Indi "modules" on different devices which is one of the reasons  Indi protocol was developed and is a plus.

Granted I personally wouldn't ,and don't ,run offline Platesolving (but I have done Online) on my RPI3 but there again most SBC's,under £200, can't even match my 8yr old 6 core 64bit 8MB AMD with SSD doing Platesolving either - reading different users experiences on many UK/USA sites!

Besides costs (Rpi VS other SBC's) the biggest problem ,which the RPI3 doesn't suffer to the same extent, is limited support (not Indi but the OEM).  

Just look at the Rock and other SBC threads on Indilib !

IMHO - I would not recommended any user, who prefers the simple life, to attempt  non mainstream SBC's Indilib.  

BUT INDI is getting there and does/will provide a good , cost effective,"all in one" package ,flexible alternative to Windows .

E.G. My fully working Indi "Grab and Go" with DSLR would not be possible on Windows hardware for under £50 (including legal copy of Windows).

In the end its "horses for courses" and personal preferences but the hardware variety available is very interesting  and fun especially during long cloudy spells. ?

Carry on the good work DR-Ju_Ju your work helps others later. ?

18 hours ago, CedricTheBrave said:

Hello all 

has anyone converted this focuser to bluetooth?

 

If not Robert Browns version diy focuser pro 2 runs all sorts of interfaces including BT:-) 

Still trying but have got a 90% working Grab and Go system using mixture of Linux on RPI Zero W , RPI3 and Amd 64bit Fedora running Kstars/Ekos.

The bug that sopped me I found out to be a setting in Canon 100D which stopped it being used correctly with the Indi DSLR driver - once that was "cured" then other funnies appear but all in all Kstars/Ekos on Linux (all Linux) or Kstars/Ekos on Windows 10 and Linux Indiservers on RPI(zero and RPI3 chained/unchained (Google it for non Indi people) works well so long I use a really good Access Point - I use a 5/2.4ghz TP-link AP/Router this gives me 90% signal level over 30 feet (thats just the 2.4ghz) and as it can run on 12v DC will run at "Dark sites" no problem.

Using my Canon DSLR I now out perform(download speed wise) the same set up on Windows using APT tethered via USB plus I get FITS files. Naive CR2 files (about 20mb) are downloaded from the RPI (Zero or RPI3) in about 3-5secs and the Fits (35mb) a second or 3 later. The DSLR driver now works 99% of the time and less / shorter wires (RPI to DSLR is a 30cm cable). So I have a true wireless Canon DSLR without spending £100+ can even use it for Day time photography LOL

I have stuck using Synscan Indi driver with my handset(I have tried most of the rest) - the latter connects to the mount and then Indi connects to the handset via a std RS232/USB adapter (no setting up required!). This has proved to be very reliable and it means I can connect to ANY SW mount ,that can use a handset, just by changing the Handset to Mount cable normally supplied with the mount. No worrying about COM ports or Com port numbers. When SW bring out the SW Synscan App for Linux next year(2019 maybe LOL) i will most likely use that to replace the Handset.

SkySafari 5 for Android works with Indi and that means (subject to Wifi signal - hence the TP-Link AP) I can work outside to control the mount but to be honest I prefer Kstars/Ekos on a laptop as I can do it all (mount ,image,Focus(nearly), Platesolve) all in one place - nice warm car or my office at home.

Platesolving is faster and more successfully  solves even though the AMD 64bit (8gb memory,normal HDD) is slower than my Intel I3 (64bit 8gb,SSD) Obsys set up

One important feature that started working when I solved my Canon setting problem is the Scheduler - bearing in mind its free - this module is very powerful,fairly reliable and gives you the ability to set up a nights workflow. It gives the ability to Goto an object,Focus,Platesolve to dead centre the object, and take a series of images with a single click of a run button or  start at a set time or even when the object is at a set altitude. It could ,but I haven't needed too, open the Obsys roof do the above sequence of events and close the roof and shutdown the system. I believe someone does this remotely from UK to Obsys in Germany ? It cannot clear skies or stop it raining to order !!!!!   For a free bit of software that's pretty good

My Grab and Go takes about 5 mins to set up/take down and because I do wide field I dont bother to align I just Platesolve if I want an object dead centre.

Would I use it for my Obsys - no not yet Kstars/Ekos still falls over too many times when I try something new - like Focusing via Canon camera len's - which works on APT under Windows. But I will do it sooner rather than later !

My Asi 120mm USB2 has stopped working properly under Linux (yes it has been modified) but it still works under Windows Sharpcap - but then the 120mm USB2 was a bag of worms from the start IMHO - even the creator admits it isn't a Std USB interface.

Something I miss is Astrotoaster(DSS) there doesn't seem to be a simple equivalent Linux product (free) - something I feel Indi needs to address one day.

One point I will make ,and I will get shot for this, is that INDI is like Ascom in that its someone "baby" and the "take it or leave" attitude appears now and then especially when I comes to querying why it cant do something(or more simply) or the layout - its not the easiest thing to learn. Sorry true ?.

But as with Ascom, Indi forum users(are creators) are a helpful lot - so could be a case of "please some of the people some of the time etc"

So in a nutshell if you put a bit of work into it and have patience(something I lack) its better than Windows set ups , cheaper than both Windows/Apple equiv and could become dominant if one of the larger Mount /Camera manufacturers take it under their wing - Note ZWO are using it in the product - and sell a complete ready made system for "faint at heart"

So come on have a go even if its to create a cheap Grab and Go wide field set up - you might just enjoy it and become a convert LOL

P.S. still haven' fixed my Tee character on my keyboard.

You could of course spend 250GBP on another product that does the same thing and is not any more precise ? 

No it means SW are using ESP wifi chip which does a connect to AP (or acts as a an Access Point) - routers provide Wireless AP.

The SW should be the client mode so it is connecting to a router not the router(s) connecting to the SW - unless AZ Wifi can act as an Access Point (SW Wifi Adapter can so maybe AZ GTI can too) .  

As Synscan_cd09  SSID is appearing it would suggest it is acting as an AP so Wifi channel interference could be the problem.

Can you change the WiFi channel with the Synscan App Pro  via WiFi settings?

Plus it seems you only have 15mins to connect successfully else it turns the Wifi off - plus a Factory reset takes 4 hrs (Mad) so the manual says.

You could also do a test by using the Windows version of SynScan App Pro - if you have a Windows PC as this may have a better signal.

Plus either way ESP WiFi chips do a 2 stage load hence the name change.

Dont own an SWAZ GTI so might be wrong for that device.

Hope you get sorted !

13 hours ago, MBJ said:

I know it wouldnt,im merely stating what i was told by a very well known astro shop that it plugs into the bottom of the handset and this seems to be backed up by the presence of 2 cables in the adaptor box to plug into the handset or direct into the mount.

What was the name of the Astro Shop ?

11 hours ago, MBJ said:

On an eq6 pro or az eq6 the wifi adaptor plugs straight into the mount using the original supplied handset cable,it wont power the wifi adaptor up if plugged into the bottom of the handset.

Wouldn't make any sense plugging into the handset as it replaces the handset and the output socket on the handset is NOT TTL its RS232 levels (plus you might damage your Adapter circuitry ). If you were to plug the wifi adapter into the handset mount port how would you get a signal from the mount ???? ?

4 hours ago, msacco said:

update my firmware

Why not use the Windows or Android Syn Scan Pro App then you wouldn't need the handset at all - Just a SW Wifi Adapter ?  Clear Skies

Make sure your Anti Virus checking isn't causing any problems.  Plus for some reason mine always works better under Windows Vista even though the dongle is an FTDI

23 hours ago, kens said:

The RPi is a bit flakey when it is not shut down gracefully. BTW moving the RPi to boot from USB is not one way. Just a small change in one file on the SD card. You still need the SD card but the Boot sector is on the USB stick

Yep you are correct - Never actually tried it as I used Berryboot anyway which still boots initially from SD - but I had read this and sounds like I misread it DOH!!  

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bootmodes/msd.md

Especially the "On Time Memory" bit.  LOL

On 26/08/2018 at 11:04, Stub Mandrel said:

Out of curiosity, have any of  us Windows users actually set up a windows machine as a result of this thread?

Don't actually understand that remark - Last count I have set up around 50 operating systems from scratch - from loading Holrith card based OS to modern day - its the same principle. Yes there are lots of "flavours" of Linux about but so what most bring something to the table as did the O/S before Microsoft dominated the market.

For "normal end users" Microsoft was a dream - spoon feed everything ,which is good, but trying to be everything to everyone is not easy. 

People use Linux for different reasons , its not geeky just different!

On 26/08/2018 at 12:08, alacant said:

It's unfortunate that this one has gone the linux-experts-only same way. Despite efforts to bring it back to on topic e.g. here , The acronym-laden-Linux-jargon  tecchies have made certain that even those curious few on the edge will now no longer have a go:(

Rant over!

Ok some truth so this will be my last post in this section - sorry for any offence (or take over LOL) - Did ask at the out set that SGL created a section on Linux Astro - which will never happen ?

Clear Skies !

On 26/08/2018 at 12:14, hughgilhespie said:

I have never seen any books that could do that with Linux

What are books LOL  - Linux for Dummies (no insult intended)  https://www.dummies.com/store/Computers-Internet/Operating-Systems/Linux.html

2 hours ago, kens said:

I just downloaded Ubuntu on another machine and burnt the ISO onto a USB stick

Yep thats what I did used Rufus to burn  ISO to Sandisk Ultra which was as fast as the Aaeon Emmc. Its the fact of have to find a usable WiFi to download the new kernel (after installing on Aaeon) and other items including WiFi driver. Answer is of course AAeon to produce a basic Ubuntu with their Kernel already installed OR just detail that in the set up details. A Faff ?

2 hours ago, kens said:

Is the difference due to VAT vs our GST (10%)? Certainly GBP 140 for the 2/16 sounds steep.

To some degree but the rest is Mouser - think I shall be sending them an email to see what the excuse is as the item is only $89 US on AAeon site (ex vat,import tax which I calculate at 3.5%) so Mouser is making £40 profit. Oh well AAeon wont sell many too hot a sector IMO

3 hours ago, kens said:

On point (6) it is a bit annoying

Again a Faff - RPI power light stays on ,as you say,when the PI has closed down but the Network LED goes off and stays off. Yes there are ways around but for "mass" market appeal ?

3 hours ago, kens said:

To resolve this on the Pi I boot from a USB stick

Which is a one way change isn't it ?  - I think the SD will go on the next version RPI !

3 hours ago, kens said:

I'm a little more hopeful of 18.04 being made available on the Aaeon than on the Pi

?

If the price was right ? I think it would make a good little Indi SCB (subject to reliability !) - and a sorted the LED /power button ?  Still might try one of the "cheaper" Mini PC's that claim to run Ubuntu/Linux as they also give a Sata interface(SSD for speed ?)

Do you do Alignment on your AAeon box or run the Aaeon as a Indi server only?

7 hours ago, stash_old said:

Up Core review coming up soon - for use with Indilib

 

Ok here's a short one:-

AAeon Core 

Pro's

1. Faster than RPI3 by a lot - 10x maybe if using DSLR images (Native or fits) load and view used. Generally everything loads a lot faster. Not unexpected.

2. USB3 helps i had an unpowered USB Hub attached via the USB3 and I could run DSLR and ZWO 120mm together from Indi/Kstars/Kos. ZWO camera smooth as silk - but see below in cons.

3. Display res very good on my 20inch Samsung TV via HDMI.

4. Its small 3/4 of the size of RPI

Cons

1. Documentation is appalling. Wiki very sparse and missing bits - I didn't use the Support forum other than searching for solutions!!

2. Installing Ubuntu is a nightmare IMHO (was for me) - how can you load anything via the net when the Wireless chip isn't recognised till after you have created a new kernel which you cant do because the WiFi doesn't work - "there's a whole in my bucket - etc etc". Has to use an old RTL usb from Comspec which would only load for a while then crash/freeze.    If anyone has done it on a Up Core and found a better way please let me know.

3. Watch out for power input - I was using my ATX power supply (set up as bench power stn) which should deliver 5v @ amps far greater than 4amps. However just before I asked Mouser for a RMA I tried the 12v from the same unit with a Down step brick (rated 5v 3amps) - this saved the day. So be aware its crucial.

4. The usb2 addon cable is poor it doesn't sit correctly on the board connector and comes adrift (yes I did push it home) this caused some weird things - e.g. loss of mouse/keyboard.

5. ZWO asi120mm usb2 speed - the fastest I could get it working was 13.6FPS (in either USB3 or USB2 port) not sure if the problem is the Indi driver or the board. But it ran and no jitters as with RPI3. So maybe not a con till confirmed.

6. The biggest CON - I hate this - There is no LED showing when you are powered on(or off) and the power button is rubbish. They say they didn't have room on the board for a power led - really using SMT

7. Cost - ok its faster but Mouser are charging £140 for the basic model 2/16gb inc WiFi aerial inc USB extn. I am sure the Atom based Windows Mini pc's would do the same and they are cheaper and include Sata interface. Just dont know if Ubuntu would run - some say they support Linux LOL. Pay for what you get !!!!!!

8. Don't know if its upgradable but Ubuntu is 16.04.03 - maybe others have used higher versions - i just followed AAeon instructions

Overall MHO

Well i was looking for a RPI3 alternative that can do Indi/Kstars/Camera's etc - ok it does that but the level of support doc is a big headache ( IMHO) and the cost maybe £30 too high - IMO. But it does,in indoor trials conducted so far,run Kstars/Kos/Camera's well - well it in my grab and go - we shall see!!!!!!!!!!!

I am going to have to fix that "t" key LOL

Up Core review coming up soon - for use with Indilib

"Yes that's true, indi-web just makes it easier for those not used to scripting and using terminals. I was thinking of ways to automate sending commands via Putty or similar to achieve what indi-web does as you suggest. If kens indi-web fix gets implemented that should help the less linux savvy people. "

Or perhaps a simple UDP Python script(running on a server) which is started from the client by just clicking on a button the same as "Start/Stop Indi" under Ekos. As its using UDP,using the same port, all Remote Python "startup" scripts on Indiservers would be started - methods are endless ? 

28 minutes ago, alacant said:

Help by testing if you have the time

No problem testing.

Did catch this while "playing" with Grab and Go Indi style using the Scheduler doing Track/Align options  - M31 being cut in two - Lol

What do others use for viewing fits files outside Kstars ????

Personally I dont ,IMHO, see the reason for using Indi Web Manager - just another resource being used on an over crowded resource limited SCB (RPI anyway) - remembering the USB and Ethernet all share the same bus (Not Rpi3b+).

Just set up a couple of cmd scripts ( change permissions) on the remotes and use Putty to connect to remote servers and start them.

If you are really clever you could write a small script that starts at boot up and monitors the hardware (as most is USB  -output from e.g. Lsusb maybe) and starts the indiserver scripts automatically when the hardware is connected.

Has anyone had problems,when running remote indiserver, with erratic GoTo's on long slews - not sure if its a bug or WiFi problems on RPI ?

Plus I find the Scheduler isn't 100% it keeps saying capturing at the end of the job (seq or run 1 time) when the job has finished (Camera Module says image recvd and complete). Might be me but cant see anything obvious.

Its a bit infuriating as its so close to stand alone,automated Astro imaging - still early days ? 

7 hours ago, tteedd said:

I now have a tablet running Android 6.0. It seems to run synscan perfectly!

If you are thinking of buying a wifi device, check that your andoid version is not 4.4.2

All I need now is clear skies!

My phone has 4.0.4 and works with Synscan App - if you send an email to Sky Watcher SynScan App team they should help(fingers x'D) - the version i use is 1.9.0a but you will have load it manually (not via google play).

Unfortunately the link they give me for the download has gone !

Ask on the IndiLib forum !!!

1 hour ago, kens said:

I'm using the AAEON-UP CORE which is based on the Atom x5-Z8350 with 64Gb eMMC and installed Ubuntu 16.04 on it. I chose this one to take over from my RPi3 as it has a USB3 port and the x86 architecture supports one of my cameras that has no ARM driver.  Given that the price includes the eMMC it is quite reasonable. Plus it can take (indeed requires) an external Wifi antenna so no need to hack the board like with the RPi3. If you get one I recommend also ordering the Wifi antenna and if you also want a couple of USB2 ports order the adapter cable.

 

Hi Ken ,

Looks interesting and other models too - including sata interface . Mouser is the "nearest" LOL outlet in UK I could find

questions

1. Did you install the Ubunto or did it come on the Emmc ?

2. Have you had much dealings with support ?

3. On the Forum I could only find 1 topic and that was a complaint that it ran very very slow and was asking for help but had no replies - Topic dec 2017 - no replies. Have you used the Forum much ??

4. It says it users 5v @ 4amp so does it run hot ?????

Would be interested in any timings for your camera'a - FPS etc 

Many thanks for the Info

12 hours ago, JamesF said:

Mostly for fun I am currently attempting to install Lubuntu 18.04 (Ubuntu with the LXDE desktop) on an Atom-based netbook that has an 8GB SSD.  Unfortunately it's some weird SSD interface that may well pre-date SATA, otherwise I'd get a bigger disk.  I did have Mint 17 on the machine previously, but later releases want more disk space than I have.

James

Which Atom processor James - Had been looking at these as an alternative.

I have had a £25 Android TV box which has worked for 2 yrs,runs Syn Scan Pro and I can RDP to other machines - so maybe some of he Atom based m/c's will work and all the media about Linux doesn't work (easily without bios installs) are over inflated.

Did you have install a new Bios/UEFI ?

12 hours ago, JamesF said:

Oooh, DEC.  My wife used to work for DEC in the dim and distant past.  We had some of their Alpha-based kit to play with at one point.  Now merely a footnote in the history of IT.  How the mighty are fallen.

James

I said the other when I couldn't remember the other ATM maker - it was NCR - Used Unix/Sco on their "Towers" - another one gone - nothing stands still ?

2 minutes ago, JamesF said:

I used to use Fedora before I moved to Ubuntu and then to Mint.  My only gripe with it for astro use would be that the fast turnover of releases mean that no single release is supported for very long.  Personally I'd probably be looking for something with more long-term stability.  If you don't mind upgrading regularly if you want to ensure you're running a supported release, or just don't care about running a supported release then that's perhaps not an issue.

James

For me once I get a working set up(Windows,Linux,IBM OS,Dec LOL) there will  a complete lock down but fair comment - but it was really for people wary of setting up a Linux "trial" from Windows PC - it doesn't get much more simple using the Fedora Media program- for the linux side anyway ?

a bit "Geeky" but a reasonable summary/overview on how Linux boots - which may help - hopefully some https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/LinuxBootOverview?

www.zotac.com seems to make a good set of Mini Pc's and although made in China (LOL) they have a support telephone number - IN THE UK - Unfortunately their support board is members only (WHY!). Anyone used them !

Plus read the problems (Bios etc) but has anyone ran Linux on any of the Intel Atom or later powered boards - they might be rubbish but at £100 and that includes  2gb/32gb EMMC and Windows 10 - a lot say they run Linux mostly Ubuntu. Anyone comments ???

I might get told off for this but the ZWO ASIair does seem to be aimed at running ZWO products only (not surprised) and no EQMOD (daft omission IMHO) - Nice knowing you all i will login incognito next time LOL