jetstream

3 hours ago, John said:

I'm still not quite sure that it ever looks much like an eskimo or a clowns face (its other name) bu

The other night using the 24" at 287x there is a bright not quite complete inner ring (annular ring?) that is surrounded by the fine radial filaments. If am Eskimo hood is looked up on the computer there is a nice resemblance with the inner hood the ring and the fur the radial filaments.

This one is sensitive to seeing as poor seeing will limit the mag where features are seen or not and a filter brightens the object but kills the fine features (to my eyes).

Just found this from NASA:

"This stellar relic, first spied by William Herschel in 1787, is nicknamed the Eskimo Nebula (NGC 2392) because, when viewed through ground-based telescopes, it resembles a face surrounded by a fur parka. In this Hubble telescope image, the 'parka' is really a disk of material embellished with a ring of comet-shaped objects, with their tails streaming away from the central, dying star. Although the Eskimo's 'face' resembles a ball of twine, it is, in reality, a bubble of material being blown into space by the central star's intense 'wind' of high-speed material. This object is an example of a planetary nebula, so named because many of them have a round appearance resembling that of a planet when viewed through a small telescope. A planetary nebula forms when dying sun-like stars eject their outer gaseous layers, which then become bright nebulae with amazing and confounding shapes. The Eskimo Nebula is about 5,000 light-years from Earth in the constellation Gemini and began forming about 10,000 years ago."

Image Credit: NASA

lol!

Yes I've been nosing around this area- so many to see but so hard to identify individuals, now I just find the clusters and stare in amazement.

@mdstuart we need your expertise on these galaxies.

40 minutes ago, JOC said:

Don't laugh, but still as a novice observer the answer is 'ones that I can find!'

Seriously I haven't observed too many objects yet, but I think my favourites so far have been the ring nebula - just the coolest thing in the sky, the blue snowball (something I can actually see colour in, Alberio coloured double star and Lyra - the double double and I have split it as far as 4 stars clearly.  I've also got a soft spot for the trapezium in the Orion nebula, but I still can't see more than about 4 stars in it.  Oh and it goes without saying the planets - Saturn and Jupiter are obviously cool and the moon and sun.  I think this qualifies as all the easy to find/easy to see objects LOL

No laughing, you have a very good start JOC!

Being able to split the double double tells much about your optics, cooling and collimation- its all good. Excellent.

I must also point out that it was @John who helped me first find the Veil, again many thanks to him.

I still like to observe objects near constellations for ease of finding and when the DSC froze up the other night I was driving the 24" @ .7deg TFOV around manually, a challenge indeed, but the basics carried me through. Your goto should work well if you have a stable base and use very tight FOV (high mag) to align, my SynScan is like this on the AZEQ6.

Right now M81/M82 are VG, M108 is so easy to find and is a nice taste of things to come for you.

One last and important thing to our observing plan:dark adaptation- you need 30mins in darkness to fully adapt for the Veil,galxies etc. Vogel is an expert on this.

http://www.reinervogel.net/index_e.html

6 hours ago, mapstar said:

Hickson 61 (the box) also frames up nice in the eyepiece with 4 totally different galaxies in the view. 

Thanks Damian, I just put it on the list with Copelands Septet.  Looked up some Abell clusters- gonna go for the Abell Leo cluster soon, weather permitting.

2 hours ago, JOC said:

I'll have wait until the clouds clear to count, but on this web site https://www.nightblight.cpre.org.uk/maps/ I am literally on the cusp of 0.5-1 and 0.25-0.5 Nanowatts/cm2/sr I am not entirely certain what the scale means, but I guess it is fairly good, though I could have real words with the numbskull that put up 4 flood lights about 1/4 mile down the road recently which are now all I can see at eye level and in through my bathroom skylight window.  O-III Filter wise I have one of these Optics ones https://www.firstlightoptics.com/uhc-oiii-visual-filters/oiii-filter.html However, I have no idea how good it is vs. more expensive ones.

For me astronomy has been a process and still is as I venture into different areas to observe. Extended objects vs points sources...when does an extended object act like a point source? look at Hickson 55 for example. I have recently learned about some of this with help from others.

The Veil is an extended object with much light in OIII. In order for our eyes to work well with the OIII we should have an exit pupil between 4mm-5mm (or more), but under less than dark skies the 4mm gets the nod.

So the 31mm gives about 5mm exit pupil. Your 26mm plossl gives about 4.3mm.

We know have a plan- try them both. No need for expensive eyepieces to view the Veil ie the 25mm SW Super plossl works very well.

However, filter choice can make a huge difference. The only one I would buy now is the Astronomik OIII (or TV, same thing). Lumicon had big issues that I'm not sure theyve overcome.

So a plan overview might include:

Practise observing 52 Cygni naked eye

View the Veil when high in the sky

Try your current OIII with both the 26mm and 31mm

Purchase an Astronomik OIII, try again

If no luck, its off to darker skies.

JOC you will see the Veil, but it is a process. Out of curiosity what are your favorite objects to observe?

1 hour ago, John said:

Low cost UHC and O-IIIs simply dont work as effectively as better quality ones. I've found that to my cost over the years.

Lumicon and Astronomik are the names that I look for now.

 

I didn't want to come right out and say this. but we share the same thoughts on this.

48 minutes ago, Ships and Stars said:

Good luck out there tonight if your weather holds.

Just in from a sauna, the Harvia works great- may as well as it is starting to snow.

Commission? I wish lol! its cost me a lot of money sorting through things and I do relate what I find. I can see why they are out of them, they work, plain old work and for such a low price.

Congrats for pulling out some galaxies under challenging conditions- the Leo Triplet is such a great target. There are places to observe- galaxy clusters- that will boggle your mind, they boggle my mind..

Seyferts Sextet should be on your list! another mesmerizing set of galaxies set around a pile of them, also known a Hickson 79- check out  nearby ARP 172 aka IC 1178 the number your 20" will show in the EP will amaze. Of course we have to wait for this one to come around.

But, UMa is climbing.....

From Vogel: Hickson 55

"22" f/4:  one of the highlights of the Hickson catalog, though not easy.  Starting from NGC 3735, the chain is quite obvious with indirect vision, though difficult to split into single galaxies. After extended observation three, sometimes four knots could be separated with averted vision, but could not be held steadily.  Very difficult group that is nevertheless worth the effort of trying to get to your limits "

This one showed really well for me and I have viewed it repeatedly, now a favorite goto object, conditions considered. @Ships and Stars get that 10BCO/VIP on this one IMHO.

3 hours ago, JOC said:

So which will I get the best view with?

Just a heads up... if you have serious trouble seeing the Veil with either set up your filter might not be up to par. I had an Orion Ultrablock that was a very poor sample, it turned me off UHC type filters for a couple of years.

Bottom line- the filter needs to be good.

How dark is your location? For perspective, the Veil is easily seen with no filter in truly dark skies as is Pickerings Wisp.

JOC, your pursuit will be well worth the while on this object.

How many stars can you see around the 4 stars of the Little Dipper bowl? Any?

1 hour ago, Ships and Stars said:

Keep finding these interesting DSOs!

I feel this is a group effort, many interesting things have been recommended to me by @estwing and @mapstar including the MUST see Hickson 55 in Draco. I absolutely love this one. It needs piles of mag and I use orthos and now Delos. I now use the SC to maximize observing time, star hopping works and I respect those that do.

Reiner Vogels site has great charts/Info as does Alvin Huey on FaintFuzzies. I got the Pn nebs suggestions from one of these by Massimo Zecchin.

Eagerly waiting reports!

ps try the Jellyfish in Gemini tonight...

Welcome to the world of collimation!

Every instrument should agree if the instruments are accurate. Try pulling the cheshire back out a bit to see the clips. Your correct about tightening the focuser screws vs sec alignment. In loose focusers I note how the laser/crosshairs go and tighten in that order.  This function of collimation centers the collimated light beam in the exact centre of the eyepiece. If off you might notice a sharper lunar view off center for instance, depending on the speed of your scope.

Note that the cheshire primary function is NOT affected by focuser slop but un barlowed laser primary collimation is. You can use your accurate laser for sec collimation and then the cheshire for primary alignment.

Works for me down to f3.8...

Gerry

57 minutes ago, JOC said:

With such help I might just be encouraged to have a bash at this.

Yes, for sure try it once its up high again and right now Gemini offers some VG objects- the Eskimo nebula, which takes very high mag and also the Monkey Head nebula-perfect with the OIII/31mm again.

Swinging over to UMa and the super pair of M108, found with your 31mm and enhanced with your excellent 14mm Morpheus and the Owl nebula, again the 31mm/OIII works.

There is just so much to see- everywhere.

When I got serious about astronomy (finally the resources) I studied the constellations for a long time which is extremely rewarding in itself. I still sit in my lawnchair to take it all in at the end of the obs sessions.

To the OP @Kronos831 sorry to go off topic, however in my mind tossing ideas around is a vg thing and feel free to in my threads. Your 130mm will show M31 superbly- from dark skies. We use the ES 24mm 68 for this and shows all 3 galaxies and the dust lanes in M31. In order to see M31 very well the object needs to be easy naked eye, if its weak or not showing the core + a bit will be the most you can get IMHO.

Just now, mdstuart said:

That 10bco better be good for galaxy hunting as I have just bought one given your glowing reports. 👍

Mark

Oh no! I'm under the gun lol!

If it does not handily beat your widefields on galaxies I will be shocked. My copy of the 10 BCO is deeper than my Docter 12.5mm UWA and also the Delos by a bit. It also gives "brighter", deeper views than my other orthos, including Taks and Circle T's. I have one excellent copy of a KK Fuji 7mm that offers similar performance.

My 10 BCO is the eyepiece I compare others to in terms of faint galaxy performance and using the Baader VIP results in no detriment at all and extends this eyepieces range.

BTW, last night I had another good look at M108- I think those "knots" I saw in it were just that, knots but I did get an averted flick off the end and over a squeak of a faint, possibly lenticular looking glow. More time needed here though.

20 minutes ago, JOC said:

I've absolutely no idea - err........I'd have to find Cygnus first!  I'll check on stellarium the next clear night when I'm out and see if I can find Cygnus.  That ought to be doable as I can see how it might look like a big swan.

Look for a huge cross! A great start in Cygnus is Albireo, a beautiful gift of the sky. There is so much in and around this constellation it is staggering. If you can see 52 Cygni naked eye the Veil will show with an OIII and proper eye illumination, 4mm-5mm exit pupil. Your 200mm dob is perfect with the 31mm Baader/ OIII.

6 hours ago, JOC said:

I've got both those and a goto and I am similarly frustrated and although I haven't made huge efforts I have on occasion gone looking for it at the right time of year and given up.

Can you see 52 Cygni with the eyes JOC?

A recent interest is observing the odd galaxies in Halton Arps catalogue so tonight I targeted three of them, Arp6, Arp 155 and Arp 280. These are all very easy actually even if their unique features don't open up. The favorite tonight was Arp 6 or NGC 2537 the Bear Paw galaxy. Easily seen using the 24" and HDC 20mm the object showed the bright sections defining the "paw" using 287x, quite unique.

The others wanted more mag but the -30c temps made frost on my primary so a heat gun got rid of it....and this did not allow high power viewing, which some of these galaxies need to show some of their features. 410x was tried and the galaxies were more easily seen but no more features appeared tonight.

IC 443 was also targeted and in this scope was really easy, zero challenge and the nod goes to the Lumicon UHC in this scope. The Jellyfish was bright tonight.

I got the Sky Commander figured out and its encoder for cold weather use- turn the SC on before venturing out in the cold and the heaters will keep up and a quick blast with the heat gun on the AZ encoder kept it working for an hour and a half in -30c.

Much much more observed and the highlight was Arp 6 a peculiar looking galaxy, almost planetary nebula like.

11 hours ago, Ships and Stars said:

I just looked up BCO and it clicked

The 10BCO is a must for serious galaxy observing IMHO, forget the 6mm .... and you don't need the18mm. You most likely won't best the10BCO ( FOV excepted) unless you but a ZAOII or Pentax XO.

5 hours ago, mdstuart said:

I don't think everyone realises how rich UMa is in galaxies.

Yes, what a rich place to observe. After reaching a couple of goals last night the scope decided to take me on a galaxy safari- shed loads of galaxies were observed in UMa however I just enjoyed the views and didn't note their identifiers, no need really, just lots of fun observing.

I did observe more PGCs near the mentioned 5 galaxy area- they were part of my safari though lol!

1 hour ago, Ships and Stars said:

I'm sure you know a bit more about that than I do! I'm limited on my shorter focal length EPs as well at the moment, so the Leica sees a fair bit of use in that department. 

Not really, just lots of trial and error - and there is a reason I bought Delos again... well, IME the zooms even top one like the Leica or Zeiss have a downfall and that is transmission, at least to my eyes. On the brighter objects it doesn't matter but when doing the "Marty Feldman" I need all the help I can get lol!

My copy of the 10 BCO is top notch on faint galaxies with and without the VIP barlow and the Delos come close to it with a much wider field and so much comfort. The 10 Delos with Paracorr gives 8.7mm for 287x at a bright 2mm eye illumination. This scope easily goes down to 1mm exit pupil for 600x but I prefer 1.2mm as a max at 500x on galaxy cores and PN.

To recap and in my humblest of opinions, eyepieces do matter on very faint galaxies.

10 minutes ago, alan potts said:

I also should have said and sort of along the lines of your reply, it is the most disappointing visual object I have ever looked at, even in my fairly large 18 inch Dob.

Alan

I just came in from observing M1 and can say that the 24" does show vg lines of structure in it. Similar but not as extensive as Steves great OIII image. Alan you might want to keep observing this one as it can show very well. Your scope will show the main bright spike and a short spur I believe. The 15 f4.8" wants to but is not quite there and your f4ish 18" will I'm sure.

I must be getting soft (old)- only managed 2 hrs out there tonight under some nice but crisp skies @ -31c/-38c wind chill. Transparency is avg.

The 24" AZ encoder froze up so searching was done the old fashioned way with pretty good luck. UMa was targeted and a favorite set of galaxies explored. The 15' shows 5- NGC3977,3972,3982,3990 and 3998. I'm rather pleased to pick up a 6th with the 24"/10mm Delos- PGC 37532 at 15.4 mag or so- I got hints of something in my 20mm HDC, not sure but the 10 Delos made short work of this galaxy in direct vision but faint.

Another favorite is M108, showing nice structure- thing is I saw 2 "odd" sections near the end, faint round and small. There are 2 faint galaxies listed as "in" M108- PGC 4096870 and PGC 4550815- has anyone seen these? or is it possible @mdstuart?

M97 was really nice showing its central star very easy, love this object. Much more observed including a blue/green mix in M42 core and the Running Man showed photographically.

There are sure lots of galaxies out there.....

6 hours ago, mert said:

Just need a nice low power eyepiece to complete the setup.

A 20mm Lunt HDC would be high on my list for this scope as well as a Paracorr II. The Lunt uses the same (very close) setting as the 21E. There are many nights where a 20mm class eyepiece is the only one used in my f4.1 dob. Of course a 21E would be nice if you want to splash out.

I seem to be enjoying familiar "easy" targets these day, weather (not) permitting. DSO hunting is a great challenge but personally can only do it in short spurts so the Messiers tick many boxes for relaxed, fun observing and I eagerly wait for the planets to be higher, another favorite set of objects.

18 hours ago, mert said:

I picked up an 18” Obsession UC today. Good price and in VGC. Came with some Ethos eyepieces , mirrors recently recoated.  Once this bad weather clears it will be given a workout.

 

Congrats!

The 18" f4ish scopes hit a sweet spot for portability vs aperture, offering bright DSO views IMHO.

Just having an exquisitely brewed cup of dark roast coffee, out to measure in a bit.