SteveNickolls

Hi JEM_svca, yes the Eagle Core is a decent option for people wanting a small, lightweight pc to control imaging with a DSLR but requires tweeking. You've experienced it also works controlling a EQ mount by wi-fi but the jury is out concerning guiding right now. It has a number of pluses considering the current competitors, I'd mention the unique design and ability to become an integral part of the equipment, its compatibility with a very wide range of Plus accessories, the ability to power other components and cabling which allows equipment to be kept assembled between uses, saving set up and tear down time. Oh, and lest I forget its Eagle OS (Eagle App) permitting wi-fi connection by Windows, iOS, Android plus pc control by crossover Ethernet cable. So it has much going for it. Perhaps soon we could all contact PLL to suggest those tweeks which could be implemented in v2.7? Cheers, Steve

Yes, I hope that PLL are taking note of these tweaks to make the Eagle app more capable. Unfortunately I'm not a programmer but surely small changes that bring better usability can be added to the firmware along the lines we are suggesting and would like to see in the future. There doesn't seem to be many paces online that the device is being discussed and reviewed. I hope therefore to soon be able to post on my experiences using the Eagle Core to control guiding of both my mounts. Cheers, Steve

Hi JEM_svca, my mistake, I was referring to a desired ability in the Eagle App to take a dark frame for use when guiding to pre entry guiding on a stuck pixel. Appreciate you would also like to perform long exposure noise reduction with your DSLR when controlled by the Eagle App. 😀 It all does make me wonder if adding such a feature in the software is simply too much to pack into the memory. Cheers, Steve

And before you decide have a read up on the iOptron iPolar as an alternative to the PoleMaster. Cheers, Steve

My understanding on the Eagle Core spec (taken from the technical data tab on https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p9959_PrimaLuceLab-EAGLE-CORE---Control-Unit-for-astrophotography-with-a-DSLR-camera.html ) is that the ARM cpu is very efficient and runs a proprietory Eagle App, I think Linux based. I understand ARM cpu's are used very widely to run bespoke systems using little power. This is however enough grunt to perform the necessary image acquisition and guiding, perhaps just enough. That is why I am unsure if any developments in terms of dark frame subtraction to help with guiding would be possible given the hardware limitations. The other products in the Eagle stable use Win 10 Enterprise edition that is stripped down of the usual bloatware and the user has the freedom to add whatever astronomy programmes they want to use. The differences in the larger models is the specification of the cpu and memory involved (that is both RAM and storage memory). Off the PLL website- Note there is no specification given here for the Eagle Core. I am really interested in your comment JEM_svca - as at one time I tinkered with the idea of getting such a camera for guiding. I certainly didn't read any information in the PLL literature to that effect. The ASI178 has a 6Mpx sensor of course. I'd also mention that the last image you see on your tablet or pc is of the JPEG taken not the RAW image, this will have a smaller file size which presumably the device can handle fairly speedily. It actually explains a lot about the Eagle Core device, not detrimental given its use but understanding its limitations. Regards, Steve

Hi noah4x4, that is all very interesting and most useful to know-thanks. I had wondered if the Eagle Core's Wi-Fi range had been compromised at night with more people being at home and all using their 2.4GHz channels for whatever purposes they had. It would be worth me checking during the day and in the evening to see what numbers of networks are in the vicinity and what variabilty happens. I haven't really looked into things in any depth but I think I recall the unit having 11 possible channels to use and seeing it preset to channel 6 which I understand is one of the three non-overlapping channels on the band. I'm rather stuck with just using 2.4 GHz with the Eagle Core but I do like how you have neatly resolved your communication issues using the 5 GHz 'Wholehome' discs. I don't have any outside building in which the mount is located but I would be tempted to use a wired solution. I have used a crossover Ethernet cable to control imaging with the Eagle Core from a laptop indoors but ideally prefer to avoid cables wherever I can. It is a very poignant point that your friend makes regarding foil backed plasterboard affecting the signal passage. Good luck by the way with your project making your set up smaller to more meet your needs. The Eagle Core does have the strong selling points of being quite petite at around 155 mm x 80 mm x 30 mm, weighing around 512g and its box metal construction with pre-drilled holes allow the unit to become a rigid part of the imaging rig. I do like how the unit can be used to power peripherals (I power the mount and DSLR), keeping cabling short and ready for use. The ability to interface its proprietory (I think Linux-based 'Eagle App') using either Windows, iOS, Android OS etc. machines also opens it up to a wider number of potential users. I mentioned in some earlier post that the device is quite modestly powered cpu-wise using an ARM A7 1 GHz quad core with 1 GB RAM and 8 GB SSD on board bearing in mind its intended use. Cheers, Steve

Hi noah4x4, thanks very much indeed for this 'heads up' concerning the 'SkyPortal' and its descendants. I'm sure it will be also very helpful for others also considering the device and alternatives. Your experience building and running an alternative mini-pc to the Eagle range is most welcome and I hear what you say concerning competing wi-fi signals on the 2.4GHz range. I have found the range offered by the Eagle Core varies, it can be over 30 feet allowing connection from indoors but other times this becomes patchy. I now try to keep my tablet within about half that distance to avoid drop out which has worked flawlessly. The Eagle core has the ability for users to change the channel used for the connection but i have not attempted to alter any settings. An advantage of the Eagle Core is it can be operated using a wireless connection from Windows, iOS and Android devices etc. and I also have operated mine using an Ethernet crossover cable which worked fine and avoids signal drop outs. I did however get the device to mainly reduce the number of cables (and the time spent laying them out and gathering them back in at the end of a session. I'm really pleased there are now so many ways to make astronomy more enjoyable and the solutions meet every level of ability and personal requirements. I understand the larger models in the Eagle range use dual band connectivity like you own built system. Hi JEM_svca, My, what a lovely image you took there, the benefits of a dark, high site certainly spring out. I'm pleased you have been able to use the Eagle Core and show its usefulness in such circumstances. Do any of your companions on such trips also use an Eagle Core for some or all of their imaging? Given what noah4x4 says in his post at least at a remote dark location any interfering signals should be few. A few years ago we went on summer holiday in Coverack, Cornwall-a very dark location on the English coast and one evening for a period in between sea mists was able to take some exposures of the North American Nebula/Pelican Nebula region. Just looking at the individual frames I was stunned by the great improvement in detail over what can be captured back home under typically 19.21 SQM-L average skies. I was able another night to take images of the Heart and Soul Nebulae region and when back home attempted to compare the results, you can image the difference. I'd like to utilise the Eagle Core as the basis of a lighter weight travel set up to take advantage of darker sky locations. Cheers, Steve

Ahh, you are very lucky living in California, I once heard that it never rains there 😉 and having access to local dark sites to image are very welcome indeed. I can see how your equipment is geared towards minimising set up despite having to travel; the Eagle Core ideally would provide that hub between guider, mount and camera. Unless you are fortunate enough to live at a dark location it's only a dedicated few people in the UK who travel to dark sites. Despite being a much smaller country than the USA we tend not to travel so far, or at least feel a trip taking an hour or more is actually too far. The few times I would travel a long distance would be to go on holiday where I'd hope to take the Eagle Core along with my Star Adventurer. Thanks very much for sharing your image of Andromeda, I do like the dust and star forming regions-was that image taken at a dark site by any chance? The weather here can be terrible for months on end and I do most imaging set up in the rear garden at home under a Bortal 6 sky. I have consequently taken the road less travelled and mostly couple very fast lenses with a modified Canon 700D DSLR and Ha filter to take images of nebulae. Two hours of total exposure will usually produce a reasonable image since one cannot always expect to get another clear night for some time. With patience however I have been able to construct mosaics, this is from late 2018 using a Samyang 135 mm lens- Being able to make visible what is otherwise completely invisible in our night sky is really rewarding and particularly how a mosaic can bring a very large object such as the Great Northern Coal Sack into plain sight. The dark cracks of dust running between the North American Nebula to around Sadr merely hint at what more remains hidden from our Earthly perspective. And more recently using a canon 50 mm lens at f/2 of the Orion region, I was pleased the camera captured the fainter arm of nebulosity reaching out to Betelgeuse from Barnard's Loop- Well I'm hoping to get guiding with the Eagle App resolved one way or the other before the galaxy season begins and when I will need guiding to use my telescope. Clear skies. Cheers, Steve

That is a very good looking set up you have, I like the customised metal work holding the Eagle Core and the platform below that. I now see how tidy the cabling is in the sheathing. 👍 May I enquire how you have found the performance of the Celestron Lithium Powertank in operation? Do you use your Eagle Core to then power your mount and DSLR? I use a mains extension reel with a portable rcd to provide power to the Eagle Core which then in turn provides power to the mount and DSLR. A separate lead from the reel to the Dew heater. I didn't think the capacity of my older type power tanks would provide enough power to all the equipment over a prolonged imaging session. Hmm, it is good to know that you have been able to mix using your keypad and SkySafari to control the mount. There are so many things that I need to trial surrounding the Eagle Core yet at the moment the combination of our fickle UK weather with storm following storm and a persistent cold have put paid to doing anything outside. Cheers, Steve

I have yet to try out the guiding process under the night sky with the Eagle Core but from tests of using the guide scope and guide scope and from my previous experience using PHD2 I think choosing decent star for guiding will be quite possible to do, the proof of course will be in the doing. Yes, PHD2 has all the helpful tools to make the job as simple and painless as possible and to stop you making mistakes, it has had a lot of user feedback to get it that way and is a much more mature product than the Eagle App. My disposition is one of hope that the Eagle App will allow guiding to be accomplished so I have a handy device to control guiding and imaging by wi-fi. Cheers, Steve

Hi JEM_svca, that's exactly my concern after finding my new ASI120MM-S has many hot pixels. I have identified a gain setting to use that while showing actual stars does not show most of the stuck pixels. I will be contacting PLL to suggest them adding the use of a dark frame or bad pixel map if the Eagle App has the memory and storage to address this. Cheers, Steve

Hi JEM_svca, thanks for all this detail it is very informative and am sure it will be of great help and advice to anyone else thinking of using the Eagle Core. Your description of how the Eagle Core is placed on the tripod and the modifications you have done are very useful to know and share. 👍 Your AVX has a lot of improvements over my now almost 15 year old CG-5, PEC is valuable to have and the bundled routing of cables through the hole is very helpful to be able to do. When my cold has finally gone and the weather here decides to go and allow some clear nights the next job is to explore how the Eagle App controls guiding both on the CG-5 and Star Adventurer and I will post the outcomes here. Like you I've found PHD2 very full of features though I've been unable to take advantage of some due to my mount's inbuilt limitations. However the large user base and constant innovation bring a well researched product and it's very forgiving on my CG-5's DEC backlash problem too. I am very interested what you have to report about mount control as Dinoboy has had problems establishing that control over his AVX mount. As you will see from earlier in the thread there is confusion over how mount control with the Eagle Core is carried out, namely if an adapter such as the SkyQLink is required or not. Your success shows the v2.6 upgrade did do away with the requirement for any extra adapter which is very good to know and also lessens the costs involved. The whole mount control issue doesn't come across as something straight forward to do particularly considering the Eagle Core is meant for those getting to grips with astro-photography using a DSLR. Your account of the pro's and con's using SkySafari are interesting, I do like the idea of tweaking the framing if required. For what it is worth you could drop an email to PLL and give them your feedback and suggest changes to future firmware updates. I did uncover some details about the cpu used in the Eagle Core, it's an ARM A7 1 GHz quad core and there's 1 GB RAM and 8 GB SSD on board. Not sure how much room PLL have to add too many changes in capability of the device but would have thought small desirable tweaks could be forthcoming from them. Cheers and clear skies. Steve

Hi JEM_svca, thanks so very much for you detailing your equipment and the procedures you follow for utilising the Eagle Core. I'm sure this will be extreemly helpful to others with similar equipment and as a guide to those with slightly different set ups. I am struck by the many similarities how we both set up. I have not yet been able to try out the Eagle Core to guide either my CG-5 Advanced Go-To mount or Star Adventurer mount due to bed weather and current prolonged cold. I take note you decided to still employ PHD2 for guiding rather than the Eagle App. I have used PHD2 successfully on my CG-5 albeit with relatively modest focal length telescope (500 mm) and it was very forgiving of the DEC backlash problem associated with the CG-5 mount. I'm hoping the Eagle App will be equally lenient but my testing will prove it one way or another. I will post a review of that once completed. I have noticed that the Eagle App doesn't have any means to take dark frames to use when guiding compared to PHD2 and I've noticed my new ASI120MM-S camera has lots of stuck pixels. Adjusting the gain seems to hit a spot where stars are visible but most of the stuck pixels aren't. I'd hoped the Eagle Core would provide both imaging with a DSLR and guiding so removing the need for long USB cables, time will tell of course. I've so far used my Eagle Core on my CG-5 mount with Canon 600D and modified 700D DSLR's using a Samsung Tab A for Wi-Fi control. I have also used my Win 10 laptop to control the device using an Ethernet cross over cable. The Eagle app does visually appear better on the tablet. I haven't attempted to control my mount with the Eagle Core and as most of my imaging is of nebulae I tend to manually point the camera to the target area so no need for any detailed star alignment other than selecting 'Last Alignment' on the hand controller. Like yourself I use the Eagle Core to control imaging and find it works very well. I have been spoilt with BYEOS in the past and did contact PLL over some changes to the Eagle App including changing the percentage exposure bar to that of seconds elapsed or a countdown clock, who quickly comprehends what 36% of a 5 minute exposure means? Some means to stretch temporarily the last image as you can in BYEOS would also be helpful for fainter targets. I have the camera's long exposure noise reduction feature turned off, a habit from the past and over time I have built up a library of dark frames to match up with light frames from each session. i have had issues with turning off 'Live View' onthecamera then affecting the operation of the Eagle App which I should investigate more but for now I leave 'Live View' on despite adding to noise. I do not know if I want to bother with mount control of the CG-5, it does seem quite convoluted and I usually only image one target a night. When I have guided using PHD2 I have calibrated on a star close to the target object and it works fine. I will try and set out my procedure below like you have which will show a lot of similarities- 1. As part of my attempts to reduce set up and take down time I have constructed an imaging pad with marks that I can place the tripod on meaning the mount will be facing north and level. 2. I have a long list of all peripherals used for imaging together with their weights. I have calculated their turning moments on the mount along with the counterweight and bar used. This is used to ensure an slight imbalance in the mount both in RA and DEC. I leave the dew strap on the lens in use to simply plug into the mains connection if required. 3. Most of the imaging equipment is left attached to the mount between sessions and simply carried outside and connected to the tripod. The Eagle Core does help to keep connections made permanently again saving set up time. Only if a different lens is being used do I need to pre-focus the camera and lens beforehand. I've found my Eagle Core does best if all cable connections are made before turning on power. 4. A portable rcd protected mains cable reel is used to supply power to the Eagle Core and another socket powers the dew heater if required. This is the only long cable that now needs to be used, again saving time. 5. Polar alignment is performed using an iPolar device powered and controlled from my laptop, this is very accurate and quick to do. Once aligned the device is disconnected and the laptop taken indoors. 6. The rcd is switched on powering the mount and Eagle Core. I return the mount's DEC and RA to their index marks and perform a cursory star alignment just choosing 'Last alignment'. I then check that the slewing rate is set at '2' being sidereal rate. 7. I connect up my Samsung Tab A to the Eagle's wi-fi hot spot and turn on the DSLR. Once in the Eagle App interface I synchronise the time in Advance Settings/Clock Settings then head to the Acquisition Interface to set the details for imaging. 8. I then manually move the mount head or the camera (on a ball head) to point to the target and take a quick 'frame and focus check' image at ISO 1600 and 30 seconds. If all is well I then commence the imaging run usually at ISO 400 and 300 seconds, keeping an occasional eye on proceedings and checking some of the last frame JPEGs to check all is well. I can see from your process where if I wanted to extend into controlling the mount I would need to do so, thanks again. Regarding guiding with the Eagle App how did it all come over as an experience? Obviously you prefer PHD2 but what shortcomings did you encounter, or features did you find missing? Also concerning mount control, and mindful of Dinoboys issues, do you need a device such as the Celestron SkyPortal Link to make it work or is it just the right cables to the right ports? Cheers, Steve

Yes it's the worst concern with the UHC filter, until the internal Canon IR filter cuts out red light at 700 nm you have quite a wide opening for any local light pollution to enter the optics- I once tried to best guess the amount of coverage of the two pass bands around OIII and for Ha/SII with the Canon IR filter in place, this was around 85nm in total for the two pass bands that's quite a hole. This is the spectrum for leds so still 20-30% of light would get through- And the spectrum of some other types of lighting- There is this filter with a much slimmer pass bands-https://shop.stcoptics.com/product/astro_duonarrowband/ but quite costly. I hope this helps happy-kat in coming to a decision on the way forward. Cheers, Steve

Hi happy-kat, You can get clip in dual band filters if you Google 'em. I already use a clip in Ha filter and UHC filter in my DSLR's and don't find a problem removing them when required. I use them with my Samyang 135 mm lens which would otherwise take 72mm filters on the objective. You could then keep your existing gear. I've also looked at dual filters but note that as Ha will usually dominate the level of OIII from an object and you can only expose for a given time (unlike if you had seperate filters and could expose OIII for longer) the benefit of a dual filter may be quite subtle. Also I understand that OIII is more prone to the effects of moonlight unlike Ha as much. If you live in a light polluted area you might want to take account of the pass widths of the Ha and OIII bands, if they are too wide your imaging time will be affected by the local sky fog. Cheers, Steve

Thanks JEM_svca for both these points. Interesting to note the latest v2.6 firmware was required for control of your mount. Sorry to learn of your experience with PLL's Tech Support's lack of response. My own experience is they have been quick to reply to me and acknowledged some ideas for inclusion in a future Eagle App upgrade. It's very helpful to others to know the score with the company and the products. Would you be willing to write in this thread how you now successfully control your mount using the Eagle app interface, it would be valuable for others with an AVX mount? Best Regards, Steve

Hi happy-kat, that's a massive difference using the latest StarTools, very well done. Cheers, Steve

👍 Good luck.

Hi Dinoboy, The power port right next to the antenna (shown below) is to accept the Eagle Core's (EC) power in connector delivering power, either battery or mains from either the lead with a cigarette socket end or lead from one of PLL's mains power supply units, I use their 5A 12V output adapter. They do make two higher amperage power supplies (10A at either 12V or 12.8V), you choose which one suits your system's power uses. This is the battery connection that you already have which goes from your battery into the EC power in port, note it does not connect to the mount- The power input connection to the EC doesn't fit anywhere else except from whichever power supply (battery or mains) you are using to the EC power input socket, it does not connect to the mount. Photo above showing the power input port to the EC (facing you and to the right of the antenna). Now as regards power out from the EC to your mount and DSLR you need to have the right proprietory cable from PLL to connect from any of the three power out points on the end of the EC to your mount's power in point and another to your DSLR. You can see below that I am using two of the EC's power out ports situated on the end of the EC, they are the 3A outputs. The thicker cable (centre power out socket) powers my CG-5 mount, the other (on the right) powers my Canon DSLR, again through a specific PLL cable for my camera. I don't have anything connected to the remaining 5A output and in any case my 'power supply' is limited to 5A but this is fine as it suits me fine. PLL do make two other 10A power supplies one at 12V and the other 12.8V). In my case the middle 3A 12V outlet takes one of these cables to connect up to my Canon DSLR- The cable you need to connect to power your AXX mount is this one- Below is a schematic from the pdf manual. '8' is the EC power in port and '5','6' and '7' the power out ports. I'm sorry to say PLL have mislabeled '7' as 12V 5A output as in reality port '5' is the 12V 5A outlet!!! Completely at a tangent note they label '1' twice and do not correctly name the 1/4" screw in the top of the unit!!! I hope this helps clarify the power in/out connections Dinoboy. It will be very interesting to hear what PLL have to say after testing on an AVX mount. The Synscan HC is a SkyWatcher product you need directions from PLL for your Celestron AVX mount and it's hand controller, a NexStar+. You really need to wait to hear from PLL. Cheers, Steve

This is as much an eyesight test as of light pollution. Last year I was able to see 9 stars, my son 16 at the same location and time. I also think places other than rural locations should be better safeguarded against new housing, commercial and road developments destroying local light levels. That needs stronger powers to reduce and regulate lighting and mass education. Regards, Steve

Hi again, I just watched the PLL video about controlling the mount, that was filmed with their v2.5 firmware upgrade. Makes little sense as the paper manual describes something different using the two add on devices. I can only think that before v2.5 you had to use a SkyFi III to control a SkyWatcher mount or a SkyQLink2 for a Celestron mount. All seems confusing and muddled. Best to pin PLL down to an answer over which is the correct way to go about things. I hope I just simply haven't confused you more. This is the record of the last two firmware updates- Version 2.6 12/07/2019 1) Added support of Celestron equatorial mounts with NexStar+ handpad 2) Added support to Canon EOS 450D and Nikon D90 cameras Version 2.5 26/03/2019 1) Added support of computerized mounts 2) Added support to Canon EOS R and Nikon Z6/Z7 mirror less cameras Cheers, Steve

Welcome to SGL, I hope it's all clear, dark skies from now on. Oh, your in Notts! 😆 Cheers, Steve

Hi Dinoboy, Sorry to hear of your continuing problem. I have scanned the pages from my manual which came with my Eagle Core having v 2.5 pre-installed, these pages instruct how to connect both SkyWatcher and Celestron mounts using the Eagle Core. For SkyWatcher mounts it mentions the need for a SkyFi III and for Celstron mounts a SkyQLink2. Now I've already sent you the most up to date pdf version of the manaul to accompany v2.6 of the firmware and this to my eyes reads very different to what is shown in the earlier paper manual. Now I do not know anything about this subject technically but I would question with PLL if any of these devices are still required to connect with the mount(s) or if the v2.6 manual now means you can simply do without them. If that's the case they need to walk you through the process step by step so you can do what is required for your mount(s). If you look on pages 19-22 of the pdf manual headed, "Control the computerised equatorial mount connected to Eagle Core" there is now no mention of any SkyFi III or SkyQLink2 required at all. 😮 Ahh, just a thought but is this because so much of the printed manual is not reproduced in the pdf version I wonder and they expect you to refer to it and so you might still require the SkyFi III and/or SkyQLink devices for the process to work? Doh! I do also note that the pdf states the procedure has been tested on Synscan hand controllers with firmware revision v4.39+ so I would check your hand controller's firmware version status in case that is not up to date sufficiently. 🙂 Anyway here are the scanned pages from my manual, please read in this order- IMG_0002.pdf IMG_0001.pdf IMG_0003.pdf IMG_0004.pdf And I once more add the pdf manual accompanying the firmware upgrade for v2.6 of the Eagle Core of which pages 19-22 are directly relevant here- EAGLE-CORE-user-manual.pdf Let us know how you fare with PLL over this, I rather think PLL's confusion with what is and is not in the different manuals may hold some important key here. Cheers, Steve

Hi Dinoboy, very sorry to hear of the continuing inability to connect despite obtaining the adapter. I can't offer any knowledgeable advice but I take it you have attempted connecting via different usb ports on the pc and tried connecting on usb 2 ports rather than usb 3 in case there is any compatibility issue? I would suggest asking PLL again and see if they could walk you through the process. You might want to write down what you are doing to see if they consider a different approach would work. At least with airing this matter on the forum you are making the issue live for anyone who could advise you better. Perhaps this type of connection issue is a known problem that others have faced even if not using the Eagle App and can give you a steer. Regards, Steve

Hi Dinoboy, thanks for the message. I hope the latest pdf manual is of help to you. It lacks a lot of content from the paper manual that should have been bundled with your Eagle Core-have you a paper manual at all, else you will not have details of how to use the Eagle Core completely? Good luck with what you are intending. I have no experience with what you are attempting to do with the device and your mount but I'd advise contacting PLL by email setting out the specific circumstances and the problem, detailing your mount etc. I've found PLL very responsive and a solution may only be a quick fix away following the right advice. Cheers, Steve