12/2/14 White light, registax6 success!

[JB80]

Well I came back from Paris on Monday but yesterday the weather was a no go so today is my first image back, the weather is a lovely 20°C for a change with a slight breeze so it is too good to pass up before I get totally stricken with man flu.

Firstly I have a comparison, I read a post somewhere yesterday about using just 1 align point in registax6 and it seemed to make sense so today I tried that and low and behold it worked.

So basically the two images below are from Reg5.1 and Reg6 and frankly there is quite a difference between the two.

Basically I loaded the same 74 pics in and let the software do all the work. On 5.1 I set the frame limit at 95% and it chose 11 pics to stack, in 6 it chose 29 frames.

I also set the first 3 wavelet sliders around the same mark, I get the feeling though maybe the settings of 70ish, 50ish and 25ish are a bit harsh using registax6.

Then I took the two images to PS and applied exactly the same adjustments but came out with two different looking pics in the end.

You be the judge.

Reg6 version

Reg5.1, please excuse the lazy process.

My conclusion is 6 does a better stacking job straight out the box as you can see the soft areas where 5.1 doesn't stack as well outside of the aligned area. Plus it's a way lighter image too. Looks like I'll continue to use Reg6 if it keeps playing ball for me.

I'm not sure though if I should change any settings with the wavelets though and ease them off a bit, there also seems to be a slight lightening around the edge of the disc which I'm not sure where that came from.

And now for some false colour.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Nice result. the RS6 result does look better indeed

[Pete Presland]

Interesting comparision it does look better

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[JB80]

Thanks guys.

It certainly does seem to do a better job, I have never got it to work for me before. I think the difference with the same data is quite drastic to be honest.

I wonder if the 1 align point will work on Moon shots too?

Can't be any worse at least.

[Steve Ward]

Hi Jarrod ,

Thanks for keeping us posted , it ain't gonna happen in the UK today ... 

I find that both Reg5.1 and Reg6 will both concentrate the detail in the Alignbox but neglect the rest to a degree when using a single Alignpoint.

My workaround for this is a multi-stack approach.

If I might be so bold , I would suggest taking the software out of the Selection process to start with , computers are clever things but the human eye can judge a decent crisply detailed frame much better . Pick the best 20-25 frames to stack yourself.

Then with a disc like yesterday's one , with details spread across the whole thing , I stacked the frames eight times ... using a 256 Alignbox "Manually" aligned on eight different details across the disc.

These stacks I save as "substacks" which I then stack together using the "Multipoint" option with a 128 Alignbox and Manually place the Alignpoints on the features I picked in stage 1 , ticking the "Simple" option in the Multi" box seems to eliminate those nasty artifacts too.

The resulting "Masterstack" is a much better stack than the substacks showing the same level of clean detail across the whole disc.

This is the frame that gets Waveletted and Gimped .

Wavelets-wise the slider settings for yesterdays disc were as below ... 

Masterstack no wavelets.

Wavelet settings.

Full disc before.

Full disc after.

Pushing the bottom sliders to the far left brings out the finer detail allowing a gentle UnSharpMask in Gimp/PS to enhance it further .

It may sound a slightly long-winded approach but using only 15-20 really good frames it really doesn't take too long in practice.

Hope this is of some use ... 

[Montana]

Lovely pics :)

Just to add a little, I find Reistax is not at all suited to solar processing but is more suited to night time. I would very much encourage you to try Autostakkert 2 as it is designed for solar work and will be far superior to any tweaks or twiddles in Registax. It is a very simple 3 step process and there is a simple tutorial on the site or I can take you to a few others. Stack around the best 10% of your frames unless there is something bad in them like cloud.

Also be careful on the Reg wavelets, if you start to see ringing (like the light ring around the solar limb) you have gone to far and back off back to where this disappears.

Hope this helps.

Alexandra

PS hope you get better from the man-flu soon

[JB80]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I do try to visually cull some frames from the stack at the start but in general I'm not very harsh with this, for instance today I started with 103 and ended up with 74 but I understand what you are saying and know I can/should take a bit more time in finding the absolute best frames.

Definitely an area I need to put more effort into.

The main issue I have had is when using multiple align points I never get a clean stack but then again I have never ticked the "simple" option. Multiple stacking never crossed my mind either. When you say you stacked it 8 times is that just realigning with the processed image at the end of the first stack and carrying on?

It's definitely an interesting method and clearly the results are excellent, tomorrow is supposed to be cloudy so I think I will sit down and try it out.

Also good tips with the wavelets too, I wouldn't of thought of pushing the bottom sliders back a bit.

Thanks for the post Steve, you have given me some new things to play around with.

[JB80]

Lovely pics :)

Just to add a little, I find Reistax is not at all suited to solar processing but is more suited to night time. I would very much encourage you to try Autostakkert 2 as it is designed for solar work and will be far superior to any tweaks or twiddles in Registax. It is a very simple 3 step process and there is a simple tutorial on the site or I can take you to a few others. Stack around the best 10% of your frames unless there is something bad in them like cloud.

Also be careful on the Reg wavelets, if you start to see ringing (like the light ring around the solar limb) you have gone to far and back off back to where this disappears.

Hope this helps.

Alexandra

PS hope you get better from the man-flu soon

I have tried AS!2 and can never get the full disc in frame and can't expand the box anymore, I guess I could resize the output frames in PIPP first as I have wanted to use it more.

It's been a while since I checked out the vids so I should do a refresher, if you know of any good links feel free to share. .

Yeah I figured I had went too far but since it was the first time I had really used RS6 and was making a comparison I just put in the same details as I did for 5.1. I will revisit this one I think. At least now I know what caused the ring.

[Steve Ward]

Problem with AS!2 is that it limits image size to 2400 x 2400 , with DSLR frames using a tweaked Barlow to fill the chip to optimise detail I need 2500 x 2500 ... 

AS!2 does a good job of stacking the frames , but no different to Reg 5.1 to my eye , but with one major disadvantage  .... 

"Full Disc" from AS!2 ...

[Steve Ward]

When I stack eight times I mean I stack the set of frames eight separate times , picking a different feature to Align on each time , yesterday's Alignments were on these 8 areas.

[Steve Ward]

There's a really annoying bright thing shining through the window right now ..... but not even I'm prepared to risk it out there today the wind is horrendous.

Gawd knows how Alexandra's coping in the heart of the beast , safely tucked up indoors I hope .... 

[JB80]

PS hope you get better from the man-flu soon

 I missed this bit in my rush, thank you. As you know this is a very serious condition.

[JB80]

I get the same thing in AS!2 on top of it not wanting to stack but I'm sure it's all manageable one way or another.

Thanks for the clarification, I follow you now. At one point I tried stitching the shots together, your way seems to be a better option.

The weather doesn't look great up your way still, long hot summer perhaps?

[Luke]

Nice shots again, Jarrod

Personally, although I like Registax and Autostakkert, I think the best program for stacking solar, for webcam and DSLR, is SheepStack

Being serious, I don't really understand Registax that well. I just thought multiple alignment points was the way to go with the high detail of white light, so I'm confused why you are getting good results with a single point, if I followed the above correctly

I normally use Autostakkert for solar and lunar with multiple alginment points, and AVIStack sometimes. Don't laugh, but I have started to use Registax for stacking airplanes that cross the disc   I can't remember why but it seemed to work better for me using Regi!

[JB80]

Thanks Luke! 

Being serious, I don't really understand Registax that well. I just thought multiple alignment points was the way to go with the high detail of white light, so I'm confused why you are getting good results with a single point, if I followed the above correctly

It's fair to say I don't totally understand it either which is probably why I can never get more than one align point to work so that's all I ever use. I think most of the early tutorials use one point at first too which if it works then why not. As you say the results seem fairly good so I have stuck with it.

Now though I'm armed with some fresh info I will give that a go and see what I can come up with.

Still yet to capture a plane transit.

[Steve Ward]

I've always noted that when allowed to do it himself that Uncle Reg can be a bit random when aligning , if you watch him closely you'll see what I mean .

When I manually align on a particular feature I know that the alignment is much tighter , this gives me the detail in that area and the subsequent stacks give the detail on the other regions.

When the final stack is done the detail in each substack is there in the Master across the disc.

With fast frame AVI's R6 seems OK but not for DSLR work , but that's just my opinion.

Multi-Align points in Reg 6 always throws up stacking artifacts in my experience , that's if it actually stacks the frames which more often than not it won't.

The only way I can load TIFFs into AS!2 is by dragging and dropping an entire folder full , trying to load as I would in Reg just throws up errors ... ?

[Montana]

Finally home, but my hubby isn't, I am worried sick. I set off at 4.30pm and just got home. It is like a war zone, trees down everywhere I thought I would never find a way home and strange green flashes in the sky as power lines were going down, I have never been so scared in all my life!

Any way, ASK2, wow I didn't know there was a size limit. 

I'll look for the tutorial in a minute

Alexandra

[Montana]

http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/p/imaging-tutorials.html

about half way down the page

Alexandra

[Steve Ward]

Good to hear you're safe Alexandra ...   

Good tutorials ...  .... The maximum size is fixed at 2400 x 2400 though ... 

[DrRobin]

Nice shots again, Jarrod

Personally, although I like Registax and Autostakkert, I think the best program for stacking solar, for webcam and DSLR, is SheepStack

!

Luke, Sheepstack, doesn't that give you slightly woolly edges? He, he.

Jarrod, what a superb picture, you have really come on over the last week or so despite a crippling illness of man flu. I use AS!2 as the weapon of choice but I take what you say about the size limit. I find Reg 6 stacks really well if the source images are of good quality otherwise it results in crazy paving (stacking artifacts). Reg5 seems to produce a slighty softer less contrast image, but although I use all three for stacking solar pictures (white light and Ha) I don't use any of them for sharpening. I use Smart sharpen and Local contrast in Paint.net (very similar to Paint Shop Pro only free) to sharpen the images. I find that Registax over sharpens them too much and you get better control and a more natural feel in Paint.net or PSP.

Not that I have anything against Reggie's wavelets, I use them for the planets to good effect, but you need to use a higher level of sharpening there. Out all of the program's I find AS!2 to be the best stacker, both for solar and the planets, it took me a little to get used to but it does work. In Reg 5 you only have single point or box stacking, Reg 6 has multipoint stacking, which is good when it works and AS!2 has both. I usually manually select the best points I can find in AS!2, say around 40 an then auto place over the rat of the photo, if you don't do this it has no alignment points over parts of the image and doesn't produce a very good stack. Typically auto-place will add around another 400 points depending on image and alignment point size.

Looking forwards to tomorrow's offering now that we have snow, high winds and torrential rain to deal with.

Robin

[DrRobin]

Finally home, but my hubby isn't, I am worried sick. I set off at 4.30pm and just got home. It is like a war zone, trees down everywhere I thought I would never find a way home and strange green flashes in the sky as power lines were going down, I have never been so scared in all my life!

Any way, ASK2, wow I didn't know there was a size limit. 

I'll look for the tutorial in a minute

Alexandra

I saw you were going to cop the worst of the wind and rain, up to 100mph the weather man said. Glad to know you got back home safely. Hope your husband makes it back soon too.

I can't see Steve going up his tower in this, sun or no sun. I must admit, I passed up the chance yesterday when it was good for solar imaging at lunch time, the arrival of a new cooled CCD and filter wheel for night time frosted my glasses when I should have been outside with my Ha scope. More boys toys getting in the way of serious solar imaging.

Robin

[JB80]

Finally home, but my hubby isn't, I am worried sick. I set off at 4.30pm and just got home. It is like a war zone, trees down everywhere I thought I would never find a way home and strange green flashes in the sky as power lines were going down, I have never been so scared in all my life!

Any way, ASK2, wow I didn't know there was a size limit. 

I'll look for the tutorial in a minute

Alexandra

http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/p/imaging-tutorials.html

about half way down the page

Alexandra

Thanks for the link Alexandra.

Hope everybody stayed safe and your hubby arrived, sounds terrifying up that way.

Is the worst of it over?

[JB80]

I've always noted that when allowed to do it himself that Uncle Reg can be a bit random when aligning , if you watch him closely you'll see what I mean .

When I manually align on a particular feature I know that the alignment is much tighter , this gives me the detail in that area and the subsequent stacks give the detail on the other regions.

When the final stack is done the detail in each substack is there in the Master across the disc.

With fast frame AVI's R6 seems OK but not for DSLR work , but that's just my opinion.

Multi-Align points in Reg 6 always throws up stacking artifacts in my experience , that's if it actually stacks the frames which more often than not it won't.

The only way I can load TIFFs into AS!2 is by dragging and dropping an entire folder full , trying to load as I would in Reg just throws up errors ... ?

Yeah, I never let Reg chose the align point and even when doing it manually I it has still played up due to variance in the frames but now I seem to have this sorted and it doesn't happen anymore.

I was wondering if the software worked out the sharper details for the final stack, good to know it does.

I always convert my files to TIF(must clean excess from the PC ) as I found both versions had trouble with an AVI although now I have troubleshooted the initial issues maybe it's worth trying again. I suppose at this point in conversion I could also resize the images in PIPP to have it fit in AS!2.

[JB80]

Luke, Sheepstack, doesn't that give you slightly woolly edges? He, he.

Jarrod, what a superb picture, you have really come on over the last week or so despite a crippling illness of man flu. I use AS!2 as the weapon of choice but I take what you say about the size limit. I find Reg 6 stacks really well if the source images are of good quality otherwise it results in crazy paving (stacking artifacts). Reg5 seems to produce a slighty softer less contrast image, but although I use all three for stacking solar pictures (white light and Ha) I don't use any of them for sharpening. I use Smart sharpen and Local contrast in Paint.net (very similar to Paint Shop Pro only free) to sharpen the images. I find that Registax over sharpens them too much and you get better control and a more natural feel in Paint.net or PSP.

Not that I have anything against Reggie's wavelets, I use them for the planets to good effect, but you need to use a higher level of sharpening there. Out all of the program's I find AS!2 to be the best stacker, both for solar and the planets, it took me a little to get used to but it does work. In Reg 5 you only have single point or box stacking, Reg 6 has multipoint stacking, which is good when it works and AS!2 has both. I usually manually select the best points I can find in AS!2, say around 40 an then auto place over the rat of the photo, if you don't do this it has no alignment points over parts of the image and doesn't produce a very good stack. Typically auto-place will add around another 400 points depending on image and alignment point size.

Looking forwards to tomorrow's offering now that we have snow, high winds and torrential rain to deal with.

Robin

Thanks Robin, it's good to see some progress getting made. Sometimes it feels as if you go backwards but I'm definitely getting a better feel for the process and learning more techniques as I go.

That's the other thing too is that everyone has a slightly different method or uses different software and it's really quite interesting to experiment with the different methods and chop and change to suit what works best for me. Thankfully there are some really knowledgeable people here, everyone included and I really appreciate all the advice and pointers given by everyone.

One of the things I like about RS5 is the single box, is  it's very user friendly, I suppose 6 is too just in a different way but what has always turned me from it is the multipoint never works without crazy paving. Steve's method sounds like it may fix that though and I do like the result more from yesterdays effort it just needs refinement, hopefully I can give it a go today.

Off topic a bit but you mention planetary, that's my next goal. I briefly caught a few images a couple of years back but really want to improve on that in order to justify a scope upgrade. I'm just waiting for some warmer nights now.

[Montana]

Thanks the hubby did finally manage it 40 minutes later. Bit like a scene of devastation this morning traveling to work, and more to come on Friday I think it would be nice if it would calm down a bit and the sun would shine at the weekend

Alexandra