EQ3-2 and Skywatcher 150p

[bambuko]

Why is it, that otherwise reputable suppliers/reviewers seem to suggest that it is a good package?

EQ3-2 is totally incapable of handling something the size of 150p.

I have (following advice here) filled tripod legs with sand and yes, and it made the tripod more stable, but has done nothing for the mount

I know there are threads about overhauling EQ3 but even this brings very limited improvements.

I am sure that EQ3-2 is good value for money and capable piece of kit if used within it's limitations (I'd guess max 114 size reflector).

I know I can upgrade.

I know I could have chosen Dob (but I wanted equatorial mount).

I also know that if I knew than what I know now I would never have bought 150p together with EQ3-2.

So, if you are a beginner trying to decide what to buy, take this piece of advice from another beginner who feels that he has paid for his education - don't buy EQ3-2 unless it is for really small scope.

Basic EQ5 is only about £60 more expensive that EQ3 and if I had decent advice I would have bought EQ5 for my 150p.

As it is I have second-hand EQ3 that  I will have to sell at a loss to get some money back for better mount

[wookie1965]

Not really look out for EQ5/HEQ5 tripod i found a HEQ5 tripod for £40 and the mount fits straight on top now its really stable.

[RikM]

I found the EQ3-2, even with the ali legs, quite capable of handling a 150P. Certainly for visual use and learning short exposure (1-2min) prime focus DSLR astrophtography. What is it that you find poor about it? If it is wobbling about, then make sure you have the axis adjusted correctly and it is well balanced or even off-weighted slightly so the motors 'pull up hill'. That stops it rocking on any play in the RA axis.

[brantuk]

A 150P on EQ3-2 was my first scope and I loved it. Didn't do any improvements other than making sure everything was tight and stable, and it performed really well for my level of experience. I learned a lot about using a scope, and eyepieces, and the astro seasons on that combo and will never regret it.

Sure it takes a few seconds to settle down and needs a steady hand to track manually - but on a calm evening and a transparent sky it was smashing. There are a lot of factors that affect using a telescope - you just have to bring them all together at the same time to get the best out of it (bit like learning a golf swing with many different clubs).

I'm sure if you persevere it will start to come more naturally to you - even if you'd got the dob version you would still find there's a lot to learn about it's use - all telescopes and mounts vibrate to a greater or lesser degree. And as you rightly point out - it is great value for money for a first scope.

[wookie1965]

I had mine for 18months before i got the tripod i put sand in the legs and put a weight on the tray and i have had some amazing nights with it, the ring nebula was superb as was Saturn some really good wow moments  as brantuk says its just like everything else getting use to the tools you have.

[haitch]

I understand your frustrations as my 1st scope was a 6" newt on an eq3 and at very high magnifications it was frustrating.

Comparing an EQ3 side by side with an EQ5 you will see the difference in the mount is not that dramatic (although the EQ3 isn't a fabulously accurate mount for imaging with anything more than a DSLR with lens on it). It is the ali tripod that causes most problems with vibration at high mag.

Do you extend the tripod legs? Have you tried viewing seated without extending?

Consider not going so high on the magnification - even on my 14" dob I rarely go below a 12mm (1600mm f/l so 130 odd times) as the views are generally more pleasing, if smaller. The main point of visual astronomy is mostly to collect more light not to make things look bigger (well, to a point anyway).

Stick with it - I'm sure there's enjoyment to be had... Oh what the heck - upgrade to an EQ6 and be done.

[haitch]

There you go as I just happened to have them to hand - (old) eq3 on left vixen GP (what EQ5s/ CG5s etc are a copy of) on right most of the difference in bulk is down to the goto motors (off an old Meade LXD75 - another clone) on the GP. The bearing housings are a little more substantial but as you can see it's not that huge a difference.


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[bambuko]

...I found a HEQ5 tripod for £40 and the mount fits straight on top now its really stable...

I am sure that better tripod brings some improvement and if it works for you - good

...What is it that you find poor about it? If it is wobbling about, then make sure you have the axis adjusted correctly and it is well balanced or even off-weighted slightly so the motors 'pull up hill'. That stops it rocking on any play in the RA axis...

It is wobbling and shaking - it may possibly be somewhat improved by adjusting and/or overhauling but I believe this improvement will be limited.

Gravity rules and EQ3 is too small for 150 size reflector.

And it is not the tripod that's the problem - filled in with sand and weighed down it is as steady as can be until I make better one from wood.

I can see that it is the actual mount that vibrates and shakes.

It is not motor pulling - my set up is purely manual.

...I'm sure if you persevere it will start to come more naturally to you...

No doubt that with practice I will be able to get more out of what I got.

It still doesn't change my opinion that EQ3 is too small and only really good enough for smaller (than my 150) OTA

...all telescopes and mounts vibrate to a greater or lesser degree...

Sure, it's just a question (very personal) of what is acceptable.

I suppose it is like a similar matter of diffraction - some people are fine with it others just find it unacceptable.

...bit like learning a golf swing with many different clubs...

Don't know much about or care for golf , but I am sure you would notice a difference if you had to use inferior clubs

...its just like everything else getting use to the tools you have...

Trust me - I will never get used to the picture vibrating

...I understand your frustrations as my 1st scope was a 6" newt on an eq3 and at very high magnifications it was frustrating...

Thank you! It least somebody who understands

...It is the ali tripod that causes most problems with vibration at high mag....

I have filled it with sand and weighed it down and I am convinced that most of my problems are to do with mount now, but I will get on with making solid wooden tripod.

It will not be wasted effort if I make it strong and heavy enough to handle any future mounts I might get and it will eliminate tripod from the discussion.

...Do you extend the tripod legs? Have you tried viewing seated without extending?...

I started with fully extended and standing up, but since then went to seating and keeping tripod as compact as possible.

There is some improvement in seating position indeed.

...even on my 14" dob I rarely go below a 12mm (1600mm f/l so 130 odd times)...

My highest magnification is about 187 when using 4mm ep and it would be very enjoyable if it wasn't for shakes and vibrations

[bambuko]

and... continuing (since I have exceeded highest number of quotes permitted in one reply )

...Oh what the heck - upgrade to an EQ6 and be done. ..

That's probably the best piece of advice I had - thanks

and thank you very much indeed for the picture comparing the mounts side by side!

[wookie1965]

No ones having a go at you and when i said using the tools like i said i have had an 8mm in and had fantastic still views of Saturn and to prove it hears a picture taken with an iphone hovering over the eyepiece not bad from the mount and this was taken before i got my HEQ5 tripod only had them 6 weeks. Could not take this if the image was shaking.

[Naemeth]

I'm sure with lighter OTAs it would work well. The Heritage 130P, for example, is only 1.1kg - hardly taxing on any mount!

Maybe make yourself a dob mount?

[Astro Imp]

As you can see from my signature this is the scope/mount that I have and have to agree with the majority that this is a great entry level combination.

I always use my mount without extending the legs and view sitting down.

The one accessory that I found made a huge difference was the Skywatcher Auto Focuser:-  http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-auto-focuser_d1434.html. Using this you get absolutely smooth shake free focusing.

[bambuko]

I know nobody is having a go , no worries wookie1965 and the picture is great indeed.

I have thought about trying a dob mount Naemeth, and might still do it, but for now intend to persevere with GEM.

Focusing don't seem to be causing me any problems Astro Imp, but thank you for the suggestion.

It is entirely possible, with EQ3-2 being so marginal when used with something the size and weight of 150p that the difference between success and failure might be just luck in the quality of the mount you have ended up with (and I am sure they vary quite a bit).

Mine shakes, it is not smooth on RA axis (using the drive knob to rotate it gently results in the tube wildly oscillating back and forth) and is visibly wobbling - maybe I just ended up with the dog?

[wookie1965]

Sounds like the mount itself if its shaking using the slow motion knobs try this it just might help then you may be surprised by how decent views you can get.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/137084-eq3-2-strip-down/

[brantuk]

"Mine shakes, it is not smooth on RA axis (using the drive knob to rotate it gently results in the tube wildly oscillating back and forth) and is visibly wobbling"

This is extra info and indicates something isn't correct. When you're tracking do you have the clutches locked? It sounds a daft question but some new users have tried to track without first locking the clutches - they do of course need tightening up and only slackened for slewing.

I found that after releasing a slo mo tracking cable I'd have to wait a few seconds for the handle to stop vibrating - but it wasn't a visibly wild oscilation as you describe. Otherwise there may be a problem with the mount - is it secured firmly to the tripod? And do the RA and Dec axes feel firm? Is there any clicking from the axes when you turn a slo mo cable?

[bambuko]

Sounds like the mount itself if its shaking using the slow motion knobs try this it just might help then you may be surprised by how decent views you can get.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/137084-eq3-2-strip-down/

I am afraid it might have to come to this

"Mine shakes, it is not smooth on RA axis (using the drive knob to rotate it gently results in the tube wildly oscillating back and forth) and is visibly wobbling"

This is extra info and indicates something isn't correct. When you're tracking do you have the clutches locked? It sounds a daft question but some new users have tried to track without first locking the clutches - they do of course need tightening up and only slackened for slewing.

I found that after releasing a slo mo tracking cable I'd have to wait a few seconds for the handle to stop vibrating - but it wasn't a visibly wild oscilation as you describe. Otherwise there may be a problem with the mount - is it secured firmly to the tripod? And do the RA and Dec axes feel firm? Is there any clicking from the axes when you turn a slo mo cable?

Yes, the clutches are locked (don't mind daft questions if it helps).

Everything is firmly secured.

There are no clicking noises, just a bit more friction than what I would expect.

I will try to describe (best I can) what is actually happening:

when I start twisting RA knob it takes a bit of effort to overcome the initial static drag and then it "lurches" forward.

This tiny movement is multiplied by the length of OTA resulting in the "oscillations" I have mentioned.

BTW - I have rotary table on my milling machine (same principle of operation) - it is beautifully smooth by comparison - so I know what it should/can feel like when it is OK.

[RikM]

Mine shakes, it is not smooth on RA axis (using the drive knob to rotate it gently results in the tube wildly oscillating back and forth) and is visibly wobbling - maybe I just ended up with the dog?

That doesn't sound normal at all I am afraid. My slow-mo controls turn quite smoothly with no juddering or shaking. It does wobble a bit when focusing but settles down after a second. I can understand why you are not happy if this what you have to put up with. I think, unfortunately, this is not typical. I have used 3x EQ3-2 mounts including my own, and found them quite consistent, though I am sure even the best production line turns out a lemon from time to time

The good thing is that these mounts are relatively simple, so a strip down and check your gears still have all their teeth and nothing is knotted up would be a good first step. At least then you will know where you stand with it.

[wookie1965]

That does sound like the worm gear or teeth missing/worn strip it down might find good clean and lithium grease makes it a hell of lot better. good luck anyway.

[bambuko]

OK, I will report results of stripdown as soon as it is done.

[bambuko]

OK, step number 1

Took OTA off, removed the mount and on the bench tried rotating DEC and RA spindles (brass things with flats to take grub screws on the handles) using my fingers.

This way I can feel a lot better what is the problem before taking it apart.

DEC axis is movable with fingers (in places just about acceptable), in places so stiff that almost un-moveable.

RA axis is simply too stiff to even try to rotate the spindle using fingers.

Now, if one of you fine gentlemen would be willing to repeat the same test on their own EQ3-2, than perhaps I could get the feel for what to expect?

[wookie1965]

Dec axis is very free RA axis is a little stiff but i can turn it in either direction with my fingers it does not get stuck anywhere it is just stiffer than the DEC axis.

[RikM]

Just tried mine. The dec axis turns freely and smoothly. It is not the easiest thing to turn a little brass spindle with your fingers but it doesn't bind-up or suddenly spin or anything, it is smooth all the way round a full rotation of the Dec axis. I can't check the RA axis because the drive motor doesn't have a clutch (the one on the dec does) so I can't disengage it but I know I can get 90sec subs at with a 150P and DSLR without trailing so that's smooth enough for me.

[bambuko]

Thank you chaps!!!

That's great and confirms my suspicion that I've got a dog

I have now stripped DEC and it is ugly to say the least.

One half of the circumference of the wormwheel has got the traces of brass worm trying to work it's way through.

It is actually doing the job of machining of the wormwheel.

I don't know if I managed to capture it on my photo:

but trust me, under microscope it really does look horrible.

Don't really know what to do with it - no adjustment will take care of it and I guess vendor will not want it back because I've taken it apart...

[wookie1965]

I would say if you can put it back together and have not made any marks on it send it back how are they to know you have opened it only other thing is try to source spare parts from somewhere. Bad luck hope you can resolve it.

[bambuko]

That would not be very British wookie1965

Second photo, showing (hopefully) even better, the progress from good area at the bottom of the pic  to the point where worm binds and grinds it's way through the wheel at the top: