Ethos 10 / 13mm or stick with Meade 5000 UWA 8.8mm??

[mobi]

Hi need a little advice please,

Would I see much "Real World" viewing difference ( A part from the 12 degree less FOV of the Meade 5000 UWA 8.8 ) between my Meade Series 5000 Ultra Wide Eyepieces 8.8mm eyepiece & a Televue 10mm Ethos 100 degree FOV eyepiece?

I am stuck between buying the 10mm Ethos or the 13mm Ethos I can buy the 13mm Ethos for £397 including P&P here in the UK, that is with a 20% discount already removed from retail price, cheapest I can find it in UK.

The 10mm & 13mm Ethos are both the same price £468.77 with a 20% reduction offered.

What do you users who have used both the Ethos 13 / 10mm and used the Meade 5000 UWA 8.8mm eyepieces think? Is it worth me getting the Ethos 10 or 13mm or will I not notice much Real World viewing difference apart from the larger 12% FOV of the Ethos over the Meade 5000 UWA eyepieces?

Thanks to anyone who can give some ideas....

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Getting the 13mm makes sense, as it is a very different proposition from the 8.8 UWA, i.e. has a very different FOV and exit pupil. The 10mm is in much closer competition with the 8.8 UWA, because the exit pupils (and magnifications) are closer. If you just get the 13mm, by all means keep the 8.8.

The other option also depends on the scope you are using it with. In say, an F/10 SCT, the 8.8 is more of a planetary EP, and the 10mm ethos might not make that much sense. If you have an F/5 dob, the 8.8mm is more of a DSO EP, and the 10mm would give you a wider field of view (near 38% linearly, some 90% in sky area!) at a 12% smaller magnification. How this fits in with the rest of your set up I do not know.

[mobi]

Hi Micheal thanks for your reply & your interesting points, sorry I should have included my setup, nothing spectacular, I have a Nexstar 5i Celestron, so your F/10 SCT point is on target for me.

I can get some really close up nice views of the moon with the meade 5000 UWA 8.8mm on my Nexstar 5i scope, the planet Jupiter & Saturn are no bigger than 2mm diameter bright grey dots with the 8.8mm.

I guess I would need a better & bigger scope to give my meade UWA 8.8mm a proper test run.I was pretty disapointed with it on the planets, moon is great but if I try to barlow the 8.8 UWA with a meade 5000 2x barlow the Nexstar 5i just blacks out it cannot take the high magnification of the 8.8mm at 2x barlowed, the meade 2x barlows are very well made I like the one I have.

I am thinking of buying a Skywatcher 190MN in afew months and thought if I took advantage of the 20% reduction on the 10 or 13mm Televue Ethos I would have a brilliant eyepiece waiting for an excellent scope in the 190MN (All reviews of both say they are great ).

What do you think Mike & everyone?

[John]

As well as the very wide field of view, the Ethe are extremely sharp, contrasty eyepieces with excellent light transmission. They exceed even the Naglers at this and are, IMHO comparable with the superb Pentax XW's.

You won't notice much difference most of the time of course but it's when you are are the extreme edge of viewing, ie: picking out the subtlest details on planets, the extra craterlet in Plato, that faint moon of Saturn, the supernova in a distant galaxy that's right on the magnitude limit for scope and conditions, that's when these eyepieces make a difference.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Seeing more detail in planets requires a shorter focal length, rather than a longer one. With my C8 I use the 8mm in good seeing, and used to have a go with a 7mm LV in excellent conditions. I now use the 14mm UWA with 2x TeleXtender for that (rarely).

An ethos 8 would be better for you, if you want to use it on planets 6mm would be too much under most conditions. I am happy with both Radians I have. They have better eye relief than the ethos (20mm vs 15mm) and I find the 15mm eye relief offered by the 14mm UWA a bare minimum (the only reason I am considering replacing it by Nagler T4s (12 and 17mm)). The Radians are a LOT easier on the wallet too:). Besides, on planets, I could even live with the 45 deg field of view of the Vixen LV 7mm.

I think is was Mr Spock who found that the Vixen NLVs are even sharper than the Radians, and at a lower price (but 45-50 deg FOV). If small eye relief does not bother you, and you want a killer planetary EP, look at Baader Genuine Orthoscopic EPs.

[mobi]

Thanks Jahmanson & Michael for your helpful replies.

My computer crashed for 30 mins so sorry for slow reply time.

Michael I have not looked at the Baader Genuine Orthoscopic EP you mentioned, I guess they are made especially for planet viewing? I will take a look at them.

I have never looked through a Televue eyepiece, I know dedicated visual viewers love the Nagler 31mm & Panoptic 19mm, I just can,t afford to buy say a 19mm Panoptic & an Ethos 13mm.

Any eyepiece above 20mm for my Nexstar 5i would be so low power I would not see anything as close up as I,d like, I have the Meade 5000 UWA 8.8mm and a Meade SWA 24mm ( Which is a really nice eyepiece it is my fav ipiece really, I got it reduced priced ).

The Meade SWA 24mm gives me nice medium close views of the Orion nebulae.Planets like Saturn & Jupiter are just white dots in the 5inch Nexstar 5i.

I know I really have to get a better & bigger scope to see what my ipieces can really do.The Meade SWA 24mmm is a lovely ipiece.All my best ipieces are Meade, I have the Meade 5000 8.8 UWA & 24mm SWA 5000 & the Meade 5000 60 degree FOV 14mm & 9mm & 5.5mm ipieces, FOV in the Meade 5000 14mm & 9mm & 5.5mm is very small in my Nexstar 5i.

Mike your quite right the Ethos 6mm would be far to powerful for my 5i scope, if the Ethos 8mm is similar in power to my Meade UWA 8.8mm but with 12 degree bigger FOV then I,d be better off not getting the Ethos 8mm & just keeping the Meade 8.8mm UWA.

I think the 13mm Ethos at a lower power would be a halfway better power, plus when I get a bigger scope it would I guess show it,s quality.

Mike do you know of any other ipieces made especially for planet viewing? In the £100 to £150 price range?

I only have £400 so I can buy the one Ethos 13mm 100 degree FOV ipiece or buy TWO £200 ipieces, I just don,t know right now.Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

[mobi]

Quick up date I bought a Meade SWA 5000 34mm for £154.

I.ll leave the Ethos for when I get the cash to buy a bigger aperature scope like the SkyWatcher 190MN.

Thanks again..

[pvaz]

Knowing your scope would help choosing, but I think the 13mm is more usable.

If you add an Antares 1.6x 2" barlow you get a 13mm and an 8mm (when barlowed).

I got the 10mm but my original plan was to get a 13. I went for the 10 cause it was hard to find a 13 s/h. Now I also have a 21 which becomes a 13 when used with the Antares 1.6x.

You can find several Ethe users that use this barlow with them as the combo works great. The only problem with it is the barlow haves 2 bolts, instead on compression rings, and will mark the barrel with use.

Edit: Oops! Only read your last post after posting. You're right, more aperture will increase what you see more then a top quality EP. The Meade's are very well rated too.

[mobi]

Hi Pvaz, thanks for your reply, the Ethos eyepieces all have 20% off here in the UK at a few of the better astro online sellers, I just bought a new 2inch Meade 5000 SWA 34mm at £154 a good price, I have bought a 24mm SWA Meade 5000 from the same seller.

I will wait till I get a bigger & better scope till I get the Ethos 13 although the price may be higher by then so I may just buy one and keep it safe.

If you have the 10mm Ethos and a 21mm Ethos you have the best of both worlds?

I bet you get some amazing visual views using your XT8i dob with the Ehos 13mm & 21mm?

How is the 13mm Ethos on planets like Jupiter & saturn in your XT8i dob?

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I think you underestimate a 5"SCT if you think it does a bad job on planets. It takes some critical focusing to get the best results, but I can get detail on Jupiter with a 70mm achromat. A 5" SCT should kick its backside. With an 8.8mm EP a 5" F/10 produces 144x magnification, which means Jupiter appears at about 1.2 degrees or 2.4 lunar diameters. As I can see detail on the moon with the naked eye, Jupiter must show detail at that magnification. Of course bad seeing (especially now Jupiter is low in the sky) may obscure details, but you should get some detail.

[mobi]

Hi, my scope is a celestron Nexstar 5i which is a F/10 5inch, but with the 8.8mm mease UWA Jupiter is only about 4mm across looking throught the 8.8mm meade 5000 UWA, and no detail is visible, with averted vision I can just make out a darker grey colour band at the top of the bright white disc which I know is jupiter because it moons are from memory 3 tiny white dots on one side?

I am looking at the correct object, my latitude is 53 degrees.

Other people have said I should see alot more detail with my 5inch SCT but I donot.I have tried a meade 2x barlow but it is impossible to reach focus best I can get is a blurred white disc, to high mag for the nexstar 5i to handle.

I will post a link to a photo of my necstar 5i so you see.

[pvaz]

You should try and keep it up to 200x, specially when it's closer to the horizon. I know it doesn't sound much but it's better to get a small sharp image, that allows you to get detail after longer periods of time, then to get a big blurry disc. Right now it's not a good time for Jupiter, it's too low and looks blurry.

Also you may consider getting 1 orthoscopic EPs. This are a very simple design with great contrast and light transmission. Although the Ethos are also great at this, I prefer the orthos for serious planetary observation. A 7mm or 6mm Baader Ortho would give you around 200x which is usable on most nights. I got mine s/h for 50£.

[John]

Is your C5 in good collimation ?.

SCT's loose detail and contrast fast if there are collimation errors. My 4" refractor shows nice detail on Jupiter and I would expect a collimated, cooled C5 to be able to match it, even with quite ordinary eyepieces.

PS: Could you make your image a little smaller please ? - it's messing up the width of this thread on my laptop screen !.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I think John is right, collimation might be an issue.

[mobi]

Hi, Pvaz thanks for the pointers, I,ll look at the Baader Ortho 6 & 7mm.

Thanks Jahmanson I'll take a look at the collimation but pretty sure it,s all ok, detail is all ok on everything I view terestrial. Won,t this website & photos auto size on your laptop view screen size?

Thanks again Michael I'll check the collimation.I,ll need to buy a collimator..Although the shop I bought it from said they had made sure it was all ok and it has had no knocks etc during use, I,m very careful with astro items..,...Thanks again everyone.

[John]

If you star test it you will soon know if the collimation needs adjusting. Either side of sharp focus on a star (Polaris is a good choice) you should see the star expand into something that looks like a fat polo mint. If the dark hole is bang in the centre then the collimation is OK.

This site is helpful:

Schmidt Cassegrain telescope advice - maintenance - SCT collimation

[F15Rules]

My Lomo 6" Mak shows a wealth of detail on Jupiter, so it does sound as if your collimation may be out. On the plus side, if that is the case, once you get it sorted you should be in for a treat, like having a new scope!

good luck

Dave

[mobi]

Sorry for my VERY slow reply, I will try to test the collimation and attempt a reset of it. But as jahmanson points out the stars I view through my 5inch nexstar 5i just either side of in / out of focus do look like polo mints and the black circle in the centre is "centered".

So I,m perplexed why my views of Jupiter & Saturn when in the past I have viewed both, they look so tiny with no detail?

I viewed Saturn about from September 2010 time frame when the rings were edge on to line of slight, both it and Jupiter were just 3mm to about 6mm ish wide bright white dot in all my eyepieces. When I used my meade 2x barlow and the meade 4000 26mm ipiece it was just a slightly bigger bright white dot. Seriously.

On viewing the moon the craters all look really sharp & in focus.Moon views are very good.But I have not looked throught alot of telescopes. I have a meade ETX90 and the moon views are the same as the nexsatr 5i shows, slighlly more definition in the ETX90?

Jupiter & Saturn thou are just the same bright white dots about 3mm across or bigger with the 2x barlow, no details on either just a slight bit more gray colour on the top half of Jupiter.

I know I,m not loking at stars.It is jupiter & Saturn I,m viewing, well trying to.

I think I,ll just sell the nexstar 5i. I like the ETX90 for it,s portability and it makes a good spotting scope.

Thanks again for all your help.