Serious Help Needed - why can't I see anything??!

[badgerchap]

OK, "I can't see anything" might be a BIT of an exaggeration, but not much. I have a 10" newt, with a 32mm celestron omni, a 10mm a 6mm and a 5mm. My focal length is 1250mm. I have a moderate darksite, good eyesight, and I never drink before observing. I've been studying astronomy for university and I have spent a lot of time researching how to use my equipment. So what's the problem? Well I can't see anything. I can see individual stars and open clusters, but planets are small and featureless, even with the 5mm and a 2x barlow. I can see NGC1977 but not M42. M31 is barely visible, and that, my friends is the sum total of things I can see. Nebulosity and the shapes of galaxies are a complete no no. What am I doing wrong??! Please please help! I love astronomy and it'll kill me if I can't improve my observing skills! Thanks so much, in advance,

Badgerchap

[LukeSkywatcher]

Sit tight and wait for the moon to go away. While waiting you may as well observe the moon.

[badgerchap]

Cheers Paul. Is the moon really that much of a problem? I have been out on other moonless nights and had this same problem.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Yeah the moon is a real problem when it is nearing full,full or just past full. It washes the sky out nearly completely. I am not sure why you are not having much luck with the scope on moonless nights. Could be a few different factors combined:

Light pollution in your area

seeing conditions of the sky

Pushing the magnification of your scope too much (doubt it with a 10" scope)

[Keithp]

Don't panic...same thing with me, 12 months ago

http://stargazerslounge.com/observing-discussion/72491-first-light-slightly-dissappointed.html

Now look what I can do

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-deep-sky/94333-my-first-nebula.html

Okay, observing is a cold and lonely vigel and thankless when the moon is out. Unless you look at the moon. My first few months that's what I did. I already had a fuji camera with a thread on the lens so then started photo'ing..oops then the budget goes out the window:D

The images you see are done with a camera, you won't see them like that with the naked eye, Andromedia at best looks like a brown smudge, also the dumbell neb. That's how I first saw them to start imaging them unguided.

But I still remember in about Feb or March last year calling the Missus out to look at Saturn for the first time, -3C frosty and we both looked in amazement! Outstanding.

Don't give up!

Regards

Keithp

[John]

What expectations do you have ?

I'm asking because often people have seen photos and then expect to see something similar when they look through a scope. Even through large scopes with a few exceptions astro objects look quite subtle. I've only once see the spiral structure in a galaxy and that was with a 12" scope at a very dark site with no moonlight and very little light pollution of any kind.

M42 was washed out tonight by the moon - try it again on a moonless night and it will look entirely different. With galaxies virtually any moonlight washes out even the brighter ones.

You should see some details on Jupiter (notably at least 2 belts running round the equatorial regions). Mars is always challenging but with your scope properly cooled and collimated you should be able to pick out the northern pole cap and some dark markings - I was able to do so tonight with my 5" refractor.

Keep at it - you have a good scope and decent eyepieces but visual astronomy has to be worked at.

[badgerchap]

Yeah, I know not to expect Hubblesque amazement! Just haven't seen anything at all yet! Having said that, went out after my original posts and grabbed a nice little view of Saturn and then saw my first ever surface detail on mars! Was great! Had a very risky blind twiddle of the collimation knobs and luckily enough this seemed to help so I'm gonna try a proper collimation tomorrow and see what happens. Will this make a decent difference, or is it just clutching at straws?

[stev74]

Don't look at the Moon as an obstacle, for beginners it's great and very easy to find. You can practice on it with all your eyepiece's (EP) and get familiar with all the different magnifications they offer. Also it maybe that your not taking your time when focusing again practise on the Moon you should be able to see lots of detail.

Also do you have a pair of bino's? They are very good at helping you find things in the sky, M42 and M31 can be see quite clearly in bino's and are good targets to start with. Once you've located them with the bino's it's easier to find them with the scope because you will know what part of the sky to look in. Mind you they will still only look like a grey smudge but they will be a lot better without the Moon full in the sky.

Probably the best advice I can give is you need to spend a lot of time at the EP the more time you look at things the more detail you can get out of an object. I've just finished my first year in astronomy and it was only a few days ago that I managed to get any detail on Mars.

Believe me there are some great WOW moments when you do start finding things!!

Good luck

[stev74]

Sorry I was writing my post when your last reply came in and didn't notice it before I posted. Well done, Saturn it is a definite WOW moment!

Collimation is worth checking just in case you've not seen the guide by Astro Baby heres a link - Astro Babys Guide to Collimation

HTH

Cheers

[MishMich]

I'm new to this myself - but you should be able to make out at least a couple of bands on Jupiter. I have with my 80 ED. However - for the past three weeks or so I've not managed to see or image anything on Jupiter, or image, so I suspect the conditions aren't right and it is getting a bit too low.

Ditto for M42. I can make out the shape of the part you see as the top - like outstretched wings - in my ED 80 and SPX 200. But it is white and featureless. The past 3 weeks or so the views have been limited to confirming that I have found M42. I only managed to glimpse M31 with my 102 refractor when I had it, by using averted vision. This is something you might want to try (if you haven't). Forgive me if I am telling you about sucking eggs, but averted vision is the only way to see some faint objects - because of the blind spot on the retina (this is what proves God doesn't exist - because a perfect being couldn't possibly create an eye so that it has a blind spot right where you are looking). So, if you aim the eye to the right of what you want to see, you find that the object becomes visible. It is not easy to pick up straight away - but it does work. That is the only way I have seen M31 - because it has always been in a very polluted area of sky for me. And it has only been a bit of a fuzzy blob.

This is why I image things - because it allows me to see more than I can achieve with my eyes. As for the moon - a dull monochrome bit of rock, but the more I look at it, the more amazing it becomes. Slowly moving across the terminator with a 9mm eyelpiece and 2x barlow really gives me the feeling I am looking at another world.

At first I was disappointed by how little I could see of Jupiter - but this was made up for by it being flanked by the Galillean moons - and Saturn is still as special as the first time I saw it. Tonight I watched Mars on the CCTV camera I have hooked up to a TV monitor. I could make out the ice-cap and a patch of dark amidst the pale orange-pink of the planet. To do that I used a Revelation 5x barlow. Not exquisite detail - but just enough, and more than I could make out using just my eyes through the telescope.

M.

[pvaz]

The details on planets are dependent on seeing conditions. Some days you look at Jupiter and you can only see a yeallowish disc. On the next night you get a few bands and some dark points travelling in them (festons). Seeing conditions affect planets too much and so does collimation.

Try some globular and open clusters when the moon is out, or if you're under light polluted skies. M15 in compact open cluster in geminy, M38 in auriga is nice too. You can also try splitting Castor (double star).

Use Stellarium to see whats up in the sky.

[badgerchap]

Thanks for the help and encouragement guys! It paid off actually. Went out earlier tonight and after a good look at Jupiter and the Galileans, managed to get M38 and what I suspect is IC405 ( The Flaming Star nebula). Acutally I was wondering if anyone could help me with this assumption? Both objects were just about in the same FOV, and I was using the 32mm (with 50deg FOV) on 10 inch scope. The suspected IC405 was about half a degree above and to the left of the cluster. Am I seeing what I think I am? If not I'm completely mystified, as none of the other open clusters in Auriga seem to have any nearby nebulosity! Thanks again,

Guy

[pvaz]

Thanks for the help and encouragement guys! It paid off actually. Went out earlier tonight and after a good look at Jupiter and the Galileans, managed to get M38 and what I suspect is IC405 ( The Flaming Star nebula). Acutally I was wondering if anyone could help me with this assumption? Both objects were just about in the same FOV, and I was using the 32mm (with 50deg FOV) on 10 inch scope. The suspected IC405 was about half a degree above and to the left of the cluster. Am I seeing what I think I am? If not I'm completely mystified, as none of the other open clusters in Auriga seem to have any nearby nebulosity! Thanks again,

Guy

I'm glad you found them!

I would suspect it's NGC1907, witch is a very easy to spot compact open cluster near M38. They form one of my favorite open clusters sights. The distance is about half degree as you say down to the right, which inverted on the scope fits your description. Try M36 and 37 next in Auriga. They are nice too.

In Cassiopeia you also have some very nice ones: M35 (lowest mag), NGC7789 (White rose cluster, use about 80x on this one) and NGC457 (the owl cluster (lowest mag). They may be a bit low in the horizon so try to find them early.

For a bright nebula you should try the Orion Neb before the moon rises, use a low mag, it's huge. Then you can zoom in and see how many stars you can make out in the trapezium.

[Astro_Baby]

Collimation can make a HIGE difference. If the scope is way out of whack the views will degrade very badly. Theres not a big difference between good collimation and spot on collimation that I have seen but theres a whopping difference between scope out of whack and decent collimation.

[DarkerSky]

Collimation can make a HIGE difference. If the scope is way out of whack the views will degrade very badly. Theres not a big difference between good collimation and spot on collimation that I have seen but theres a whopping difference between scope out of whack and decent collimation.

I second that. When I got my 16" LB the collimation was well out. I spent the first couple of days (and evenings) collimating and fine tuning it, then star testing it. Took a few hours to get it really well lined up. The difference in what I saw through the EP was appreciable.

The only other thing I'll add is that sometimes you just need to get your eye in once dark adapted. The longer your study an object the more detail you'll likely see

[rusirius]

As per the two posts above I also spent a while learning how to collimate the scope properly. The time spent was worthwhile and having collimated the scope properly the view under dark (that is moonless) skies was much improved. For example, with the scope adequately cooled I can now split doubles much more cleanly.