Tracking Saturn with a crazy telescope

[Astral]

Can anybody offer a newbie advice on how to find Saturn?

I know this may sound stupid, but two nights ago while chilling in my fantastic new observatory

(The attic with the skylight wedged right open with a cats scratching post, and a bunch of cusions piled up on two chairs so I can reach the eye piece LOL)

I first time with no effort at all managed to get Saturn in my scope. Thinking I was obviously now an expert and getting rather cocky I took out the eye piece to insert a higher magnification one and totally lost the planet!

I spent 2 hours trying to find it again and getting so frustrated I had to look at the moon just to feel like I had achieved something! The trouble is my scope is so over sensitive the slightest knock or tap just throws it way off whatever your looking at (Even touching the eyepiece with your eye sends you a million miles off target). At least the moon is easy to spot! But without a motor driven tripod and no compass or experience I find it stupidly hard to find anything other than the moon. Which is great but I want to get Saturn now!

Is there anything I can do to

A: Stop my telescope being so sensitive

B: Find things easily

[themos]

Do you have a finder scope attached?

[Astral]

Yes but thats an even bigger pain in the bum, I took it off in the end. It has a little laser attached but you can only see the laser dot if your at the back of the scope where you can't reach the knobs to move it.

(Edited for accidental swearing, oops)

[themos]

I think that's a red LED-light dot finder, not a laser. I have one of those and I find that I can get closer to it provided my eye is on the right line (parallel to the scope and passing through the middle of the aperture of the finder). It's really quite impossible to find anything without a functioning finder.

[Astral]

Aw but even where I tried using it when I could see the dot clearly I would have a star lined up perfectly in the finder and as soon as I looked in the scope it was no where to be found....

[themos]

All finderscopes need to be aligned with the main scope first. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation so it's best done when there is a moon up. Your red-dot findescope should have some way of moving the dot around so that it appears against different bits of sky background. You need to find those controls and learn how to use them to move the dot around. Those red-dot finders are made so that the position of your eye is not critical but it does need to be almost correct (say, an eye movement of an inch either way should still make the dot move only a small distance in the sky background). So, find the moon in the main scope and then adjust the finderscope so that the red dot is right on the moon. If you can do that, then you have aligned your finder and your main scopes. You then move the scope while looking through the finder so that the red dot is onto Saturn (if you know where Saturn is in the sky with just your eyes). It should then be in the main scope. Use the largest eyepiece (highest number, that's the focal length) you have to find things, then try the other ones. Good luck!

[kniclander]

Aw but even where I tried using it when I could see the dot clearly I would have a star lined up perfectly in the finder and as soon as I looked in the scope it was no where to be found....

er, it sounds like your finder is not lined up properly?

also, if you're looking through a skylight, could saturn have moved out of your FOV completely?

[dark knight]

Get some anti vibration pads for your tripod to sit on, these may help a bit, however I presume your attic floor is timber so any movement by you walking around will cause vibration etc and is gonna cause havoc with any alignment. You really need to isolate the tripod from the floor in this instance for a start.

[Talitha]

Was it about the same time on both nights? Celestial targets move from east to west, and on the second night Saturn may have already moved so far west it was already out of your window of opportunity for observation.

[Astral]

Maybe, but as for the shaking. It happens outside on soft grass too... If your eyeball dares to touch the telescope a teeny weeny bit thats it, it freaks out and sends whatever your looking at 500 miles away from you FOV.

I'm thinking maybe I haven't tightened something or set up the tripod wrong or weight? Without ever having done this before and not living with anyone who can remotely help (Love them, but seriously wouldn't let them fiddle) I am finding this all very hard. I know its worth the frustration though, even when all I'm looking at is our closest lunar friend I stand there going "wooow wow wooooooow wow" so I can't wait to see deeper!

[kniclander]

you don't say what scope you have. small cheap scopes with cheap mounts wobble like crazy (I know what you mean - the rustle of an eyelash can send a quite large planet hurtling out of its orbit..........).

[Astral]

I have a celestron powerseeker 127 EQ, So its not the cheapest but still pretty cheap as far as scopes go!

[themos]

I have the powerseeker 114EQ so I sympathise! What I found though is that after the wobble dies down the object is still in the eyepiece. Maybe you have not been tightening the clutches properly. There are these slow motion control stalks that you can use to move the scope slowly and without too much wobble.

[Astral]

The irritating thing about the celestron powerseeker 127 is the length of one of the slow motion controls... its about a foot long plastic tube with a knob on the end and its slightly bent to the left. It had literally become my pet hate as using it involves this crazy hand movement (To kill off as much shake as pos) and I'm afraid to cut it incase I skrew it up for good. Its only needs to be two inches long WHY A FOOT??!!

[Astro_Baby]

It probably has a wobbly mount by nature. Most entry level stuff does unfortunately. The only pics I can find of a powerseeker 127 suggest its similar to a Sky-Watcher 130 but on an EQ1 mount (The Sky-Watcher has the slightly stronger EQ2). The EQ1 would be very lightweight for that scope hence the wobble.

Question for you - is the scope balanced on its mount ? The scope being balanced will make a big difference to wobble.

The finder does sound odd. All the pics of it I can find show an optical finder with something like a 6x30. Thats like a small telescope - rather than a red dot finder.

As already said your never going to find anything without the finder working so I wonder whats wrong with it.

My bet is its the Celestron red dot job which has a pair of circles and a red dot. Look behind the scope into the finder with BOTH eyes open and find the dot. It has adjusters to move the finder up/down and left/right.

You need to align the scope so that both the finder and the scope are looking at the same thing. Its easier to do this in daylight and aim for some distant object like the top of a telegraph pole or a distant tree.

You may find - depending on the scope and finder combination that you do have to have a look, then move to adjust the finder, go back and have another look etc. On My Sky-Watcher 130 I had to move to the back of the scope for a good look and then come forward to adjust the red dot finder.

Remember that some finders wil shift anyway when the scope is moved about. I always have to realign mine every time the scope is moved from location to location.

[themos]

That's why I never recommend an equatorial for beginners. Cheap equatorials are just one frustration after another. See if you can get rid of this and get yourself a used TAL. They are built like a tank and don't even have clutches. They don't wobble, have proper finderscopes and great optics.

[Astral]

A TAL?

How would I find one of those? *Runs off to google it*

[Astral]

Okay I'm confused. How do you know if the mount will fit my telescope?

Super newbie by the way....

[themos]

I mean, you get the whole mount and telescope tube package. A friend of mine picked up a 6" reflector, second-hand, for about £150. You might be able to find just the mount but you'd have to adapt the rings somehow (wooden inserts?)

[Astro_Baby]

Astral - Most telescopes are attached to their mount by whats called a 'dovetail' bar. Its the metal bar that attaches to the mount.

These come in two varieties - Vixen and Losmandy. Vixen is the most popular because its fitted to almost everything that comes out of manufacturers. Your scope will have a vixen dovetail. So any mount that can accept that (which will be just about everything under £3000) will fit your scope.

The TAL telescope that themos is talking about is a Russian made reflecting telescope. They have good optics and are built very solidly and are very heavy - so they dont tend to wobble being very over engineered.

The TAL-1 is slightly smaller than your telescope but is built like a tank - they come up for sale very often at the £90-£120 second hand.

I have seen one but never used one and I dont know if they have a vixen mount. I think Themos was thinking in terms of swapping yours.

I know entry level EQ mounts can wobble but in fairness almost any entry level scope has its own demons. Some people just hate the clunkiness of the TAL-1.

Where are you based ? Perhaps someone nearby could help you out or could advise of an astro-club nearby.

[Astral]

I'm afraid I cannot afford to just buy a new telescope package, not that rich I'm afraid! I like my Celestron and being a girl on a budget I'm going to just have to live with it now.Any suggestions that won't leave me eating spam for the next month? haha

[Astral]

Thats a good idea! An astro club would be so helpful to me. I am based in the forest of dean (Gloucestershire)

Anyone know of any club listings?

[Astro_Baby]

Dont worry Astral - I'm sure it can all be made to work better and its not a bad scope for a beginner by any means. Your a bit too far from me but I'm sure someone will pop up with a nearby club.

Most mounts do wobble a bit - even my HEQ5.

[Astral]

I'm sure as I get better I will control it better also.Its just frustrating for a newbie to see everyones wonderful images on here and I want to see it all with my own eyes too!

[Astro_Baby]

I can understand Astral. Last year I almost chucked up the hobby (again !) because my viewing time was so limited and every night when I was free it was cloudy.

Remember though that images on here are often shot with bigger scopes and expensive camera gear and that camreas show things you wont see with your eyes - glorious nebulas in imaging are very often just faint fuzzy smoke rings with your eyeballs. With that said your scope will still resolve some of the brighter ones quite well and obviously planets like Jupiter and Saturn are very nice as well.

This hobby can stretch even my patience at times for sure