Seeing Conditions The Worst Ever!

[wesdon1]

Hi all. I don't know about you, but last night the seeing was absolutely horrendous!! ( Wavertree, Liverpool, UK ) I was doing planetary, specifically Saturn then Jupiter later in the night, and I swear I literally could only resolve fuzzy mushy blobs, despite trying for hours to get fine focus on both planets! I checked for any other possible reasons but after excluding everything, all that was left was terrible seeing being the cause? Needless to say the video files were useless!

I'm back out tonight for round 2, wish me luck!

iOptron RC8

ZWO ASI 224MC camera

ASI Studio/Planetary Imaging 

2x Barlow/Focal Length 3248mm@200mm Aperture

[Elp]

Likely regional variations but a lot of people were reporting their best ever seeing, especially on Saturn.

[Clarkey]

21 minutes ago, wesdon1 said:

Hi all. I don't know about you, but last night the seeing was absolutely horrendous!!

I'm 100 miles north and my seeing was as good as it normally gets. Jet Stream is north at the moment, so I am surprised yours was that bad. Must be something local.

[wesdon1]

3 hours ago, Elp said:

Likely regional variations but a lot of people were reporting their best ever seeing, especially on Saturn.

@Elp @imakebeer my goodness that has made me reconsider my diagnosis for the awful resolution? 
you know when you look at a planet through a warm/uncooled down telescope and you get those blurry wishy washy views? Well that’s exactly what I was seeing on my laptop screen, all night? So if it was a simple cool down issue, I would have expected it to improve during the night as the scope reached thermal equilibrium but it stayed exactly the same all night? Maybe I was just very unlucky with terrible local seeing? 
It’s a mystery! 

[Kon]

The seeing last night and tonight have been awful but the night before it was excellent even through high clouds. You can see in the planetary imaging section that several of us got really good conditions and reflected in the images. I got my best Saturn and I regret not imaging Jupiter that morning as I had to catch some sleep before work.

[wesdon1]

@Kon Hi Kon. I’m hoping it was simply very bad luck with my local seeing, because I have never had such awful resolution before. The only caveat was my RC scope is in need of collimation, but surely that couldn’t have been the cause for such blurry wishy washy views? I was actually planning another night outside tonight doing planetary but decided it’d be wiser to wait until I’ve collimated my RC scope. 
 

instead I’m currently outside now doing DSO with my small refractor.

Clear Skies my friend!

Wes

[Kon]

7 hours ago, wesdon1 said:

@Kon Hi Kon. I’m hoping it was simply very bad luck with my local seeing, because I have never had such awful resolution before. The only caveat was my RC scope is in need of collimation, but surely that couldn’t have been the cause for such blurry wishy washy views? I was actually planning another night outside tonight doing planetary but decided it’d be wiser to wait until I’ve collimated my RC scope. 
 

instead I’m currently outside now doing DSO with my small refractor.

Clear Skies my friend!

Wes

Collimation will have some effect on the final image, unless it's way off you may notice it in the live view. I rhe last couple of nights the seeing has dropped a lot. Last night Saturn looked as a fuzzy ball. I usually look at the Jetstream map but the predicted times can be a bit off. 

I hope you get the good seeing soon for some planetary imaging.

I noticed you don't have an ADC. Worth getting one for low elevation planets.

[Ratlet]

I thought the seeing wasn't so good this morning either.  Jupiter was okay with the dob, but not the best.  Mars was pretty dire. Not too bad it was almost like I was seeing double.  Figured either it was the seeing or my eye going on the wonky.

[wesdon1]

7 hours ago, Kon said:

Collimation will have some effect on the final image, unless it's way off you may notice it in the live view. I rhe last couple of nights the seeing has dropped a lot. Last night Saturn looked as a fuzzy ball. I usually look at the Jetstream map but the predicted times can be a bit off. 

I hope you get the good seeing soon for some planetary imaging.

I noticed you don't have an ADC. Worth getting one for low elevation planets.

@Kon Kon I forgot to mention, I took a single shot of a bright star with the RC scope, and it's spikes were absolutely perfect, like the 'scope didn't need collimating after all?? 

So to conclude, I'm going to collimate the 'scope and then next session outside I'm going to start out WITHOUT the 2x Barlow because I have a sneaking suspicion the seeing just wasn't good enough for the circa 3300mm FL I was using that awful night. Then If the resolution seems normal again, I'll then throw the 2x Barlow on and see if I get the same awful blurry live views. Whatever the case I will solve this problem! 

Yes I definitely need an ADC, also a UV/IR cut filter.

Thank You again for the advice Kon, I really do appreciate it!

Clear Skies, Wes.

[wesdon1]

7 hours ago, Ratlet said:

I thought the seeing wasn't so good this morning either.  Jupiter was okay with the dob, but not the best.  Mars was pretty dire. Not too bad it was almost like I was seeing double.  Figured either it was the seeing or my eye going on the wonky.

@Ratlet Yes I'm sure it was bad seeing mate? I'm going to collimate my RC 'scope, and buy a UV/IR cut filter and a ADC adaptor, as helpfully suggested by @Kon and hope my next clear sky has better seeing.

Watch this space!

Clear Skies, Wes.

[Kon]

1 hour ago, wesdon1 said:

@Kon Kon I forgot to mention, I took a single shot of a bright star with the RC scope, and it's spikes were absolutely perfect, like the 'scope didn't need collimating after all?? 

So to conclude, I'm going to collimate the 'scope and then next session outside I'm going to start out WITHOUT the 2x Barlow because I have a sneaking suspicion the seeing just wasn't good enough for the circa 3300mm FL I was using that awful night. Then If the resolution seems normal again, I'll then throw the 2x Barlow on and see if I get the same awful blurry live views. Whatever the case I will solve this problem! 

Yes I definitely need an ADC, also a UV/IR cut filter.

Thank You again for the advice Kon, I really do appreciate it!

Clear Skies, Wes.

For collimation do a star test, InFocus and out of focus. Spikes can't tell you much.

For imaging, usually we aim 5-7 times the pixel size of the sensor so whatever your f ratio of the telescope is will tell you what Barlow you need to add.

You will need an UV/IR cut window too. A cheap one will do.

 

Good luck with your imaging.

[wesdon1]

3 minutes ago, Kon said:

For collimation do a star test, InFocus and out of focus. Spikes can't tell you much.

For imaging, usually we aim 5-7 times the pixel size of the sensor so whatever your f ratio of the telescope is will tell you what Barlow you need to add.

You will need an UV/IR cut window too. A cheap one will do.

 

Good luck with your imaging.

@Kon Oh right yes I forgot about the in and out focus star test Kon. I think I can even use an artificial star in doors by wrapping foil over the light of a strong torch, then putting a pin hole in foil and turning lights off?

yes at 2x Barlow I'm hitting F16, which is too low to achieve the 5-7 times formula.

Oh ok thanks, at least I won't break the bank for the UV/IR cut filter!

[Kon]

13 minutes ago, wesdon1 said:

@Kon Oh right yes I forgot about the in and out focus star test Kon. I think I can even use an artificial star in doors by wrapping foil over the light of a strong torch, then putting a pin hole in foil and turning lights off?

yes at 2x Barlow I'm hitting F16, which is too low to achieve the 5-7 times formula.

Oh ok thanks, at least I won't break the bank for the UV/IR cut filter!

I recently collimate on the planetary moons, not showing flaring but you need decent seeing for it.

[alacant]

Liverpool? I think that's by the sea, no?

Here in Alicante, if we are imaging close to the coast, the seeing is affected by airflow/wind direction. Easterlies -from the sea- throw worse seeing then dry westerlies from inland.

A possibility perhaps?

Edited September 19 by alacant

[wesdon1]

1 minute ago, alacant said:

Liverpool? I think that's by the sea, no?

Here in Alicante, if we are imaging close to the coast, the seeing is affected by airflow/wind direction. Easterlies -from the sea- throw worse seeing then the dry westerlies from inland.

A possibility perhaps?

@alacant yes Liverpool is a famous historical port city, right next the the sea! makes total sense what you say because most of the weather comes in from the east.

[TiffsAndAstro]

29 minutes ago, wesdon1 said:

@alacant yes Liverpool is a famous historical port city, right next the the sea! makes total sense what you say because most of the weather comes in from the east.

Except prevailing weather is from the west

[wesdon1]

On 19/09/2024 at 18:42, TiffsAndAstro said:

Except prevailing weather is from the west

@TiffsAndAstro LOL sorry I actually meant the west!