Vertical banding

[ninjageezer]

Anyone had any vertical banding issues like this  ?

yes i know its only a small data capture but never seen any banding like this before .had the camera 2 years in December .

used with uvircut filter and askar fra400 scope ...banding only visible when data is stretched.

tried with flats and no flats still the same .....i use pixinsight .i cannot seem to get rid . 

Camera is a player one Poseidon imx571 ,had it nearly 2 years .

[vlaiv]

How do you do calibration?

That pattern looks like bias not being removed - so no darks or at least bias being used in calubration.

[ninjageezer]

4 hours ago, vlaiv said:

How do you do calibration?

That pattern looks like bias not being removed - so no darks or at least bias being used in calubration.

strange i used flats, dark flats and darks ,not that the camera needs darks ,also tried without any and it looked the same .the image i have just attached was taken recently with the same kit ,i never saw any banding even with stars removed.

[vlaiv]

1 minute ago, ninjageezer said:

strange i used flats, dark flats and darks ,not that the camera needs darks

Interesting. It's probably not down to bias signal then. Although some people say that some cameras does not need darks - every sensor benefits from dark removal.

Here is what master bias looks on my ASI178:

there is prominent vertical banding that I thought is reason behind vertical banding in your image (and is best removed from image).

[TiffsAndAstro]

Any chance it could be walking noise? Did you dither?

[Stuart1971]

Yes, I think this may well be walking noise too, which means you need to use a good set of temp matched darks, or dithering, or better still both…

[Elp]

Walking noise leaves a dark rain type pattern across the image from my experience.

Have you seen this, it may or may not be relevant:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/927866-risingcam-imx571-has-developed-serious-banding-think-i-broke-it/

[Stuart1971]

36 minutes ago, Elp said:

Walking noise leaves a dark rain type pattern across the image from my experience.

Have you seen this, it may or may not be relevant:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/927866-risingcam-imx571-has-developed-serious-banding-think-i-broke-it/

Hmmm, not in my experience, this is walking noise from top right  to bottom left lines, but certainly not dark, if anything its light streaks

 

Edited August 17 by Stuart1971

[ninjageezer]

1 hour ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

Any chance it could be walking noise? Did you dither?

Yes dither every 3 subs

 

[ninjageezer]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

Walking noise leaves a dark rain type pattern across the image from my experience.

Have you seen this, it may or may not be relevant:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/927866-risingcam-imx571-has-developed-serious-banding-think-i-broke-it/

Good spot will check it out .

[TiffsAndAstro]

Also have you just stacked lights? Is it present then?

[Elp]

2 hours ago, Stuart1971 said:

Hmmm, not in my experience, this is walking noise from top right  to bottom left lines, but certainly not dark, if anything its light streaks

 

Same thing. Technically it may be from white pixels but I associate it as black because the background signal is not black especially on a single image, after stacking you see the black/white effect, it's in your image too. Kappa sigma rejection upper and lower figures also give a different result.

Anyhow, it's not the OPs issue. The image you've shown is what I had prior to dithering, never saw it again after dithering.

[ninjageezer]

14 hours ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

Also have you just stacked lights? Is it present then?

I tried running just the lights and its the same .

[ninjageezer]

put a new usb cable on from powerbox advance to the camera hoping to test in next day or so big moon but its just to check for banding .

 

 

 

[TiffsAndAstro]

29 minutes ago, ninjageezer said:

put a new usb cable on from powerbox advance to the camera hoping to test in next day or so big moon but its just to check for banding .

 

 

 

ok, im a beginner so please take this with a pinch of salt. im pretty sure i put a similar post up about 6 weeks ago, convinced i had walking noise even though i dither. I re-shot my flats and used them to re-stack in siril and the issue went away.

if you've nothing else to do, shoot some new flats maybe with the light a little brighter and see if that fixes it. it won't if it is walking noise, but no harm in giving it a go. 

[ninjageezer]

2 hours ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

ok, im a beginner so please take this with a pinch of salt. im pretty sure i put a similar post up about 6 weeks ago, convinced i had walking noise even though i dither. I re-shot my flats and used them to re-stack in siril and the issue went away.

if you've nothing else to do, shoot some new flats maybe with the light a little brighter and see if that fixes it. it won't if it is walking noise, but no harm in giving it a go. 

defo not walking noise due to not dithering this looks so different. Ive taken a lot of images in the last 2.5 years never seen anything like this .like i mentioned its the same with or without flats .ive changed a usb cable today also to rule out that..im intrigued by the link ELP left above re: USB limits on this sensor.....

[TiffsAndAstro]

1 minute ago, ninjageezer said:

defo not walking noise due to not dithering this looks so different. Ive taken a lot of images in the last 2.5 years never seen anything like this .like i mentioned its the same with or without flats .ive changed a usb cable today also to rule out that..im intrigued by the link ELP left above re: USB limits on this sensor.....

Have you tried using different flats? Maybe from a few days ago.

Probably won't help but it's a quick test 

[ninjageezer]

1 hour ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

Have you tried using different flats? Maybe from a few days ago.

Probably won't help but it's a quick test 

yes also tried with no flats ...

[TiffsAndAstro]

2 minutes ago, ninjageezer said:

yes also tried with no flats ...

Try it with different older flats, or, brand new ones if you don't have any old ones.

Unlikely to work but it's an easy quick test

My image data was ropey but I can see how nice yours is underneath

Edited August 18 by TiffsAndAstro

[WolfieGlos]

I had a similar issue with my DSLR when I used darks, only they were horizontal bands which were magenta when stretched. Removing the darks and restacking and it went away. Only with a dualband filter though. 

One other thing you could try, although it won’t fix the root cause, is Siril has a Canon Banding tool which can be changed to work on vertical banding. If you cannot fix the issue for this data, you might be able to save it. 

[ninjageezer]

On 18/08/2024 at 17:15, TiffsAndAstro said:

Have you tried using different flats? Maybe from a few days ago.

Probably won't help but it's a quick test 

wow this target is so faint in my bortle5/6 with the moon even though very low last night 5 hours produced virtually no visible data  !!!! im shocked tbh.

[TiffsAndAstro]

3 minutes ago, ninjageezer said:

wow this target is so faint in my bortle5/6 with the moon even though very low last night 5 hours produced virtually no visible data  !!!! im shocked tbh.

i knew there would be cloud, but i imaged anyway. partially for practice, partially to see if some changes i made to guide scope and cam did anything.

everything ran perfectly, guiding was a bit iffy during some slightly thicker cloud, i even slept from about 1230 to 330

my resulting images were so bad i've already deleted the data

[Robert Hayes]

Hi there, my tuppence worth.  I would personally dither every sub depending on the sub length like every 5 mins. I would also have a dither of at least 10 pixels to even everything out. Might also be worth just checking them dark temperatures and light temperatures incase cooling has not been sufficient. Maybe worthwhile adding bias frames too. Hope this helps bud. Clear skies.

[ninjageezer]

one thing that surprises me is that player one still recommend Bias frames instead of dark flats ,ive never used bias in the nearly 2 years i have had this camera.whats your thoughts on this ?

[Robert Hayes]

I have a player one Saturn M uncooled and use dark flats only. I do capture my flats after every session though so temp is all the same.