Good scopes for ZWO 2600MC Pro

[Mr Green]

Good evening All,

As the title says, I have the above OSC camera and contemplating on upgrading my Star Adventurer GTI mount.

Before deciding what mount would be best suited, I wanted to get an idea on what the largest aperture refractor would work well with the camera. (Currently using SW 72ED)

This would then make sure the mount is future proof.

I've looked mostly at scopes that are around 750mm to 850mm and I've made the assumption that I want to be around 2 arc secs per pixel.

The 3.76 pixel size of the camera equates to between 0.9 & 1px based on above focal lengths, and if I am understanding correctly with binning x2 would get me to 2px.

Feel free to school me if I have this wrong, just interested to know what scopes I should be considering down the line.

As an FYI, the mounts I am considering are either of the AM3/5 or new Wave 100/150i

[Clarkey]

Most refractors would work well with this camera. 1 - 2 arc sec/px is a reasonable target with UK seeing. In reality your choice maybe determined by your budget.

Technically the AM5 or 150i would carry a 130mm refractor, which would be a good choice. The TS Photoline triplets are good value. I have a 115mm Altair Starwave which is excellent, even though it is 'only' FPL 51. There is also a 130mm version. At the end of the day there are lots of refractors available, just depends what you want to spend.

[Mr Green]

Thanks for the reply Clarkey, seems like I am on the right track with my thinking at least.

With regards to budget on scope, I was thinking of a budget of around £2k.

I might push this a bit further if the AM3 would work but don't want to skimp on mount.

 

[Clarkey]

8 hours ago, Mr Green said:

Thanks for the reply Clarkey, seems like I am on the right track with my thinking at least.

With regards to budget on scope, I was thinking of a budget of around £2k.

I might push this a bit further if the AM3 would work but don't want to skimp on mount.

I would definitely go towards the AM5 for a large refractor. The 130mm Starwave is well within your budget (the larger version of 115mm I have). When I compare this with my FPL 53 triplet, I can honestly say I cannot see any difference, certainly no evidence of CA. It also has a good focuser which should not need replacement. If you want FPL 53 you will need to drop in size or go second hand. (Not that buying used is a bad thing. I have had excellent used scopes).

[Mr Green]

I've done a fair bit of research on both scopes and mounts and seems as though FPL 53 glass shouldn't be obsessed over.

I'm more interested in individuals opinions based on experience with scopes therefore your advice is priceless.

Rather than mentioning the AM3, I should have said Wave 100i as I see that they can carry 10kg-15kg and this would likely be within the bracket of some 120mm - 130mm scopes (taking accessories into account).

I'll have a look at the Starwave brand as I have focused mainly on Askar's range so far.

[Elp]

If you're looking at larger scopes it'd be wise to go with the larger mounts if you've got the funds. The Warp Astron mounts are also supposed to be good though the WD20 is more than the AM5n.

[Elp]

I've used my SF102 doublet for imaging with my hem15 perfectly fine to give you an idea.

[GoldTop57]

Or go on to Astrobin, put ASI 2600MC Pro into the search box to view the images people are achieving with this camera and scope combination.

[Vroobel]

I've used my 2600MC with 10" F/5 Newtonian, 4" F/7 and finally F/5.6 APO, 2" F/4.6 Askar and recently with Sigma 40mm @ F/2.0. As it's easy to calculate, it means oversampling or undersampling, but thanks to a modern software all pictures CAN BE great, it mostly depends on processing and post-processing skills. Good sky and/or good filters may help, but they aren't essential. 

 

[alacant]

10 hours ago, Mr Green said:

don't want to skimp on mount

+1. The most important part of the game. By far.
 

11 hours ago, Mr Green said:

This would then make sure the mount is future proof

How about the CQ350? You then have a choice of just about any telescope you like. Robust, future proof, just works. You'll notice how much better your 72ed will seem to be whilst you decide where to go next.

Just our €0.02 but HTH.

[Clarkey]

3 minutes ago, alacant said:

How about the CQ350? You then have a choice of just about any telescope you like. Robust, future proof, just works

I would completely agree providing it is permanent. Bit of a beast to carry around!

[Mr Green]

Thanks for the influx of messages.

Just to summarise on some of the comments:

I have had a good look on Telescopious/astro bin for images taken with the camera to get an idea on what scopes look to work well.

I just didn't want to put myself in a position where I'd be having to take countless hours of data to get a decent image due to sampling issues.

With regards to mount, I am pretty set on a harmonic drive for ease of moving in and out of the house and potentially taking to a darker site in the future.

ELP's comment with regards to the HEM15 with a 103apo is interesting. This would surely mean that the new wave 100i would suffice as long as not going for a heavy 5" apo.

The Askar 107phq weighs 7kgs and the largest scope in the £2k bracket I have looked at is the Starfield Gear115 that comes in at the same weight.

I'll likely go for the AM5 or 150i but feel as though the smaller brothers are possibly up to the task (with counterweight) to hold a 8-10kg scope.

[iantaylor2uk]

I use a Tak 102 TSA f/8 refractor (815 mm focal length) on an RST 135 harmonic mount and you can see some of my photos on https://chesterastroblog.wordpress.com/ or instagram (https://www.instagram.com/chester_astrophotography/?hl=en), although I use a slightly older APS-C camera (ZWO 071 MC Pro). I also use an FRA 300 for wide angle views. It's definitely a lightweight solution, and portable too as I usually run it off batteries. 

[Mr Green]

The RST 135 is definitely out of my price range but you've taken some fantastic images with the same sized sensor and scope combo to what I've been looking at.

I think my question with regards to suitable scope size has been answered.

Thanks everyone for sharing advice.

Now just need to decide whether the wave 100i would be suitable for a 7-10kg scope.

I am tempted to go for the Askar 107phq & wave 100i.

If it's the 150i or AM5n, it would need to be the cheaper Asker 120 apo which funnily enough is lighter.

Either option comes to about £4k which is where i want to be.

What would others go for in that price range noting I am set on a harmonic mount.

[Elp]

Personally if you can afford it, am5n. I always wanted an am5 but also wanted portability so I also have the am3. AM5 would be better future proofed if you decide to change scopes.

I'd also consider the Warp Astron WD17, if it's anything like the WD20 it'll be good, but ZWO would be the proven one. There are many HDs coming to market now, Pegasus Nyx 88 will be out soon, many eastern ones too, the juwei17 apparently offers AM5 performance for much much less money, see the recent thread in the mounts discussion section.

Caution about going too long a focal length, there's a reason mount manufacturers state a FL limit, I suspect it's due to the drive mechanics/steppers/reductions. Either way you'll likely have to autoguide too. Haven't tested mine yet at 1000mm FL.

[Clarkey]

4 hours ago, Mr Green said:

I am tempted to go for the Askar 107phq & wave 100i.

If it's the 150i or AM5n, it would need to be the cheaper Asker 120 apo which funnily enough is lighter.

Personally, I would go for the larger mount and one of the 115mm refractors. They are tried and tested and offer great value for money. Also, the standard Stella Mira FF or 0.8 reducer costs a fraction of the one for the Askar which is nearly £400!

Just for info, here is a stack of NGC2903 with IMX571 that I took with the 115mm Starwave and the SM field flattener. (Grand total of £1400). Gradient removed and stretched only. There is a tiny bit of tilt on the top right - but only if you pixel peep. Seeing was not great but there is no sign of CA. 

[Elp]

12 minutes ago, Clarkey said:

Also, the standard Stella Mira FF or 0.8 reducer costs a fraction of the one for the Askar which is nearly £400!

I've asked the question in the Askar 103 apo thread whether a standard 2 inch flattener could be used, no one's replied yet. But I would have thought it was possible even with minor imperfections at the edges.

[Clarkey]

15 minutes ago, Elp said:

I've asked the question in the Askar 103 apo thread whether a standard 2 inch flattener could be used, no one's replied yet. But I would have thought it was possible even with minor imperfections at the edges

I was wondering this too. My guess is you will be trying to flatten a flat image, so it would not work - but happy to be proved wrong. However, with the proposed ZWO 2600 it may be too much aberration to ignore.

[Elp]

13 minutes ago, Clarkey said:

My guess is you will be trying to flatten a flat image

I was referring to the orange/white coloured recent triplet, I don't think it'd work with the phq green/white, maybe the 0.8x SM reducer would work with both.

Edited Thursday at 18:38 by Elp

[Mr Green]

On the basis that I go with a scope in the 115mm range give or take a few mm, I'd be going for a scope weighing roughly 7kg. 

If I allow 5kg for accessories to be on the side of caution, I'd need a mount to support 12kg.

Am I wrong to think that the wave 100i with a counter weight supporting up to 15kg would be an option?

 

[Elp]

I'd personally go for the larger one as using CWs with a HD mount kind of defeats the purpose of buying one.

[Mr Green]

That's a fair point.

I'll wait for some reviews on the new wave mounts and then decide between the AM5n & 150i.

With regards to scope, I'll definitely consider Clarkey's advice although my preference is to purchase via FLO as they've been outstanding with pre & post sales support in the past.

 

[Clarkey]

7 minutes ago, Mr Green said:

although my preference is to purchase via FLO as they've been outstanding with pre & post sales support in the past.

Certainly a consideration - FLO customer service is excellent. My personal experience of Altair Astro has been very good too.

[Mr Green]

I've gone ahead and ordered the AM5N although it's on a 2-3 week lead time.

Decided against the Wave 150i purely because there's not enough known about its performance.

Just hope I don't have any regrets although don't think I will.

Now just need to work on the Missus to sign off on a new scope.

[Clarkey]

1 minute ago, Mr Green said:

Now just need to work on the Missus to sign off on a new scope

What scope? 🤣